It depends on your definition of socially acceptable.
I think pretty much everyone would agree that it's tacky to walk up to an overweight person and tell them to stop eating, but considering the things I've heard said to some of my friends and family members who are a bit on the chunky (or more than chunky) side, and the riotous laughter and high fives that followed these comments, I think we're at a point where it IS pretty socially acceptable.
Sorry, fail. You cannot separate the smoke from the smell - the smoke IS the smell.
What I can't understand is how people get so fat? Sure, if you have hypothyroidism (which quite a few women get at some point or other), I can understand, but if it's not medical how do you put on 100lbs without realising that you are ing your life up and endangering your health? Is morbid obesity a slow method of suicide for these people?
My other observation here is that the obesity epidemic is a symptom of the general social malaise that has overtaken modern Western societies - hyper-consumption with no thought given to the long-term consequences.
50 years ago, in our grandparents' generation, people actually had a thing called "restraint", and they considered certain behaviours "wasteful" and "greedy". That ethic has largely disappeared, to the detriment of us all, and the planet.
Could be an anachronistic survival mechanism...but it some cases it's just their metabolism...they have to work a lot harder or eat a lot less to stay underweight...and really what is the point, just so some aholes won't be offended?
Complete BS really...in many cultures ancient and otherwise, being overweight is a sign of success and wealth.
Um, no, I know about the cultures you are referring to (particularly in Africa and the Pacific), but those obese people were a very small percentage of the general population, namely the aristocracy, which is a very different thing from half of the population being overweight or obese which is where your country and mine find themselves today. The average Joe in the societies you refer to was working his arse off just to feed himself, so there was no way they'd become obese.
Of course obesity is a symptom of heedless hyper-consumption, how can it not be?
What I'm saying has nothing to do with being offended - I am not offended by obese people.
What is the point? The point is that obesity significantly increases your risk of dying prematurely from heart disease, a range of cancers, etc. The point is also that obesity cuts down the range of activities you can take part in. When climbing a set of stairs gives you conniptions (and you're not over 60), something is wrong.
I'd say it's still a sign of success...probably 40 million or so Africans that would love be in that condition as oppposed to starving.
Having a lot of overweight people just means you have a lot of food, you can't pull it off if you're des ute.
Yeah but...if all of a sudden there's no food, they'll be better suited to survive and traditionally(and outside of the West) that's a lot more realistic and pressing danger. Survival mechanism...a lot of animals are the same way.
You think Africans give a abut heart disease and cancer?
And it's human nature to expand and and consume...
most of these ppl are on welfare, htf can they feed themselves with that kind of money and gain that much weight, theres not much you can buy with that fortnightly paycheck....
Depression. Insecurity. Addiction. Fear, maybe? You and I may see the logic that fit = healthy = good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else does.
If you're talking about someone who has battled weight since childhood, it can be difficult to completely change your lifestyle. Even if you know it's the smart choice.
If you're talking about someone who has a history of being healthy and in decent shape but suddenly puts on excessive weight (for non-medical reasons, as stipulated in your question), it is likely that there are emotional issues behind it. Perhaps food replaces smoking, or another addiction. Or depression and insecurity can convince someone that they don't care about their health and appearance, or don't deserve the happiness that comes with a healthy lifestyle. I can actually think of two people (a relative, and my friend's husband) who, I suspect, subconsciously keep the weight on as a method of mitigating their social anxiety issues -- the weight acts as a built in excuse both to avoid social situations and to dismiss criticism or rejection when meeting new people (they don't like me because I'm fat, which means they're shallow and not worth my time, so who cares?).
I love how people like Ruff look down on people that are overweight.
In your grandparents' generation you didn't have Ronald McDonald bribing kids with cheap toys to eat his chemical-filled fried . You have to think the need for two-income households now is a major reason fast food has gained such a foothold in the American diet; you go to work 9 hours, spend 2 more sitting in traffic, and then you're going to spend 1-2 hours cooking dinner every night on top of that?
You always have an interesting perspective whottt, although I totally disagree with you, and so does logic.
You're way off track here. Of course people would rather have plentiful food than starve (I never suggested they wouldn't), but does that mean they all gorge themselves and fatten themselves up until they can hardly move? No.
Obesity on a population level as we are now seeing is a modern invention - it hasn't happened before, that's why the health authorities are struggling to address it. It arises out of eating too much, and too much highly processed food in particular, combined with a generally more sedentary life.
Dude, I am an evolutionary biologist and human ecologist by training, and your arguments are spurious.
Those most able to survive under what cir stances? A fit person is far more likely to survive both in a situation where he has to kill or find his own food (more range, more likelihood of successful hunting), or a normal modern setting (because of the higher death rates amongst the obese) - obesity does not AID survival in humans. In other words, what you're saying makes no sense.
As for this: "it's human nature to expand and and consume". Sure it is, but massive overconsumption causes problems - on a personal level it kills you through obesity-related illness, and on a global scale it dooms future generations by stripping the planet of useful resources.
Anyway, your original point: "in many cultures ancient and otherwise, being overweight is a sign of success and wealth" is true and I never disagreed with it, but it misses the point. We are talking about the obesity epidemic on the level of an entire population, not the fact that it signifies success for a small number of people (ie. the aristocrats) in some cultures.
Thanks for that, good post. I guess I just figured that at some point people heading for obesity would realise what they were doing and stop, but I can see that there are many reasons why that doesn't happen.
No, I don't. I wonder how they got that way, just like I wonder about all sorts of predicaments people, including myself, get themselves into. I'm trying to understand other states of mind, because I know most people don't think like me.
Yup, the pace of life, 2-income families, media and disposable food are all part of the problem.
Life is faster today and a lot of the time people used to use for things like cooking is now spent otherwise. Sad really. Cooking can be a very social activity, but fewer people now have the time and energy to do it.
Kinda like you look down on people who are out of work?
Really? all this time I thought you was drug free, born again, tree hugging soccer Mom!
I say Ruff will have his meltdown on page 5
Oh yes you can. Sorry, fail.
When I have a cigarette outside then come inside for a meeting, no one is exposed to second-hand smoke. Theyre exposed to the smell of someone who just smoked.
Well, youre better than me and most, I guess.
I am saying at a subconscious level and even consciously, we as a species when choosing a mate or even whom we choose to associate with and allow into our lives is uniquely predicated on certain physical attriubutes. Obviously, you have a more developed sense of "blindness". I am sure that was not easy for you.Normal, healthy, and proactive? I disagree on all three counts. I think such judgment is considered normal only because people seldom challenge that idea, not because it is inherent to our nature as human beings. I think it's far more healthy for us all, collectively and individually, to focus on being the best people we can be, rather than to spend our lives fixated on the personal choices made by others. And I think that being judgmental, especially to the point of ridicule, is incredibly divisive, which I think is a huge hindrance to proactivity.
But all the scientific studies show the same thing...right-to-left-side symmetry is a facet of beauty no matter what culture you were born in. Those with eyes too close, or too far apart are less attractive than those with a normal spacing. Size of hands, feet and ears in relation to their body.
This extends the globe over, regardless of culture (ok, I am sure there is some weird island tribe that loves (idk) big-footed women, but theyre the exception and not even close to a rule).
You may not consciously recognize these attributes, but you absolutely are categorizing them, admit that or not. Because everyone does.
See, now that doesnt jive with me. I understand what youre saying and a certain person in my famly has some thyroid issue and has since junior high.Furthermore, it's naive to assume that people who are obese are always in that condition due to cir stances within their control. I think it's incredibly damaging to remove personal responsibility in the case of addiction, regardless the substance in question, so I don't support the thought that someone who compulsively overeats is doing so because they are physiologically incapable of not compulsively eating. However, there can be many legitimate health issues that lead to weight gain. For example, I have a very close friend who eats healthfully and exercises regularly, and always has, but due to health complications and prescription medications (many of which she's been on since early childhood) is usually hovering around the 300 lb. mark.
I readily admit there are certain medical conditions that lead to extreme weight gain, I know that.
But I will repeat the same thing I said to another, are you being disingenuous on purpose?
63% of Americans are overweight. 31% are obese. No, thyroid problems and medication doesnt account for that many people.
You know and I know... everyone knows what the problem is. Some people cant put the fork down. Go down the list of overweight people you know and ask yourself "Which is due to medication/thyroid/something else, and which cant stop eating bon-bons and chocalate ice cream?"
If you name 3 with a medical condition, I'd be surprised. I can name one and I know my share of overweight/obese people.
I can assume that about any stranger I see because statistics say they have no excuse, that they have an addicition to food. It is what it is. With that assumption, 80-90% of the time I will be right. Its no damn different than calling a crack-addict a "crackhead" and thats socially acceptable. But boy, call a fat person "fat", look out!
I am not disrespecting overweight people. I am just surprised how much pity and interest we as a society have for people with ZERO self control. To the point where someone is thought shallow for pointing out the fat person wearing spandex (spandex...seriously? not sweatpants?) is a disgusting sight to behold (which is easily remedied by looking away, I admit, but just because said person decided spandex looked good on her truck-of-an-ass doesnt mean I should suffer that in line at the grocery store).I don't think that disrespecting a different segment of the population is the proper reaction to being disrespected yourself.
It is! No one said I have to look, but then again, no one said they made spandex in size XXXL either. What were the spandex people thinking?
Youre right, it isnt the only way. But it is by far the most common. 31% of Americans were obese in 2000. Do you think that number has gone up or down since? Medication/Thyroid/Whatever, or because Americans eat for food and some cant stop?Again, this is all making the assumption that shoving ice cream and hamburgers down your throat all day is the only way to become obese.
Remove the underlying reference to "obesity/overwight people" in this above sentence and replace it with "smokers" and see how drastically the opinion changes.And, even if it was, I don't think it's ever okay for someone to be ridiculed or ostracized for their personal decisions or lifestyle choice.
Well, I dont strive for society to be blind to addictions of any kind. Or that we try and embrace and encourage every kid and every person. If youre fat, you know it, I know it, lets leave it at that. Say something stupid, get y, cut me off in traffic or otherwise piss me off and I'll pull your card on that in an instant.At no point did I get high on myself or think I was above being judgmental. In fact, if you'll notice, I specifically worded my complaint as being disgusted by how judgmental WE are as a society. I try my very, very hardest not to make snap judgments, but I know for a fact that I'm not always successful. Just because I may do something, however, doesn't make it any less disgusting.
I dont spare people's feelings because I dont really give a about their feelings. I have plenty of overweight friends (I live in Michigan, cant go too far without a couple lurking around a Dunkin Donuts) and family. Until they are serious about their condition, I wont be either.
I am a smoker. I am trying to quit (finally). I have my addictions, I have my vices, my problems, my shortcomings. I am not overly attractive or "buff", I am not the smartest, I am not the richest and I am nearly bald at (almost) 29. But I embrace my deficiencies and laugh at them, like my father did, like my friends do.
If someone gets butt-hurt because their fatass cant touch their toes, see their junk or walk from their car to the front door without nearly passing out, so be it. I stand my share of criticism for my shortcomings, which inspires me to be better (quitting smoking, it isnt acceptable anymore). I will stumble and fail, and so will others.
But just embracing habits that are detrimental to your health, or a loved one's health, isnt healthy or proactive. Obviously, I am little more supportive and constructive with friends and family, but they still catch their share of from me and others (I have noticed other overweight people are less forgiving than me). A few have lost weight/quit smoking/stopped drinking so much/went to rehab/started excercising/whatever. Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO. Not overlooking their glaring condition and accepting them wholesale, only to watch them suffer diabetes/heart failure/etc. Youre enabling them and absolving yourself of blame. I think thats sort of weak on our part, that we didnt have the guts to state the obvious.
Last edited by DarkReign; 01-21-2009 at 09:28 AM.
Let me clue you in. What it really does is make them sad and resentful.Its that friendly ridicule that truly inspires a person to change, IMO.
Not in my experience, sorry.
This is America ! Restraint? Restraint!? We talkin' bout restraint!? Restraint is for the Ethiopians!
Could you clarify? Does this mean that you don't feel hurt when people ridicule you, or that you don't think anybody else feels hurt when you ridicule them, in your "friendly" way?
Then your experience must be very limited, then. If that were the case, all you'd have to do to get America to lose weight is just go ing insult everyone. I'm sure all of the 12 year olds and the jack sommersets of the world would be thrilled.
In my own, personal experience it's more likely to be damaging to self-esteem and exacerbate depression in those with that particular affliction. I really don't know too many people that respond well to negative criticism.
friendly ridicule doesn't make someone sad or resentful but instead inspires a person to change?
wow. you need to get out more.
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