More Hope and Change

[ChumpDumper]

hahahahhahaha. So u think AIG deserved those bonuses. Thats grand!

When asked, your only reason for saying the employees shouldn't be paid is because they work for AIG. When explained why they were receiving retention bonuses you said we had a point but that AIG shouldn't try to keep any employees for any reason.

That's grand.

[jack sommerset]

When asked, your only reason for saying the employees shouldn't be paid is because they work for AIG. When explained why they were receiving retention bonuses you said we had a point.

That's grand.

No Chumpy, I said they don't deserve bonuses, Ur definition of a bonus is different then mine and apparently Obama's. They really need to take a look at the employees so this does not happen again.

[ChumpDumper]

No Chumpy, I said they don't deserve bonuses, Ur definition of a bonus is different then mine and apparently Obama's. They really need to take a look at the employees so this does not happen again.

The type of bonus here is fully defined by everyone with the possible exception of you. If you want to use a different word, go ahead. It won't change anything one bit.

Why do they need to take a look at the employees? Which employees?

[Yonivore]

No Chumpy, I said they don't deserve bonuses, Ur definition of a bonus is different then mine and apparently Obama's. They really need to take a look at the employees so this does not happen again.

I think the definition IS different. I get the impression you're thinking in terms of a bonus being a reward for doing good work. In this case, these were retention bonuses, promised if the employees stayed on at a failing enterprise -- at the expense of seeking other, more stable, employment -- so that AIG might be able to wind down the toxic side of their investment house before it was swallowed alive.

[johnsmith]

Man, you should stick to the monkey jokes. At least those aren't made up.

True.

And weren't you going to bed?

Yep, still am, thanks for caring.

It must suck when you're not self employed and you have to work someone else's hours.

I guess I could go into business selling fruit cups on the corner of Military and 35 the way you do but I don't want to take away from your business.

But then again, you think having to go to a job is a good thing and a sign that you're accomplished. Right?

I think it's a better thing then always being in school via tax payer money for your minority ass.

[jack sommerset]

The type of bonus here is fully defined by everyone with the possible exception of you. If you want to use a different word, go ahead. It won't change anything one bit.

Why do they need to take a look at the employees? Which employees?

Obviously not just me. WOW.

I feel sorry for some, just a tiny tiny tiny bit. The innocents that work for AIG . Not so much that I want any of them to keep a bonus. The bonus they get is they still have a job,

Take a look at the employees of AIG to find out who wrote this bull in to the contracts. It so freaken obvious they ed up. BILLIONS was spent on them.

Again the American people should not have to pay for there mistakes again. Again Obama agrees.

Why don't you agree witth the choosen one?

[jack sommerset]

I think the definition IS different. I get the impression you're thinking in terms of a bonus being a reward for doing good work. In this case, these were retention bonuses, promised if the employees stayed on at a failing enterprise -- at the expense of seeking other, more stable, employment -- so that AIG might be able to wind down the toxic side of their investment house before it was swallowed alive.

Dude, They would not have JOBS. NO bonuses.

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously not just me. WOW.

I feel sorry for some, just a tiny tiny tiny bit. The innocents that work for AIG . Not so much that I want any of them to keep a bonus. The bonus they get is they still have a job

Right, and they could probably leave to get another job pretty easily given the dead-end nature of their current employment. AIG had to do something to make staying worth their while.

Take a look at the employees of AIG to find out who wrote this bull in to the contracts. It so freaken obvious they ed up. BILLIONS was spent on them.

According to the CEO's testimony, they are gone and not the ones receiving the bonuses.

Again the American people should not have to pay for there mistakes again. Again Obama agrees.

Why don't you agree witth the choosen one?

Because I never saw him as the chosen one and rarely if ever find myself in full agreement with anyone. If you see him as such, have you always agreed with him, or did you just use that term to distract from the actual issue at hand?

[Yonivore]

Obviously not just me. WOW.

I feel sorry for some, just a tiny tiny tiny bit. The innocents that work for AIG . Not so much that I want any of them to keep a bonus. The bonus they get is they still have a job,

That's where you're wrong. These employees were part of the organization that is being shut down. They were told that they would be out of a job at the end of the effort but, that to keep them around until then, they were offered these RETENTION bonuses.

Take a look at the employees of AIG to find out who wrote this bull in to the contracts. It so freaken obvious they ed up. BILLIONS was spent on them.

Retention bonuses are fairly standard practice in such situations.

Again the American people should not have to pay for there mistakes again.

Who says it was their mistake? These guys are as much victims of AIG's screw up as the rest of us. The only difference is they stayed -- pursuant to a contract -- to try and mitigate the damage. They're due the money.

Again Obama agrees.

I'm not sure that helps your argument.

Why don't you agree witth the choosen one?

I know this wasn't intended for me but let me emphatically respond, No!

[Yonivore]

Dude, They would not have JOBS. NO bonuses.

Dude, they were probably more marketable to other companies back at the beginning of this fiasco and, recognizing that, AIG offered them the retention bonuses so they wouldn't flee to another company and leave AIG to implode.

[jack sommerset]

Right, and they could probably leave to get another job pretty easily given the dead-end nature of their current employment. AIG had to do something to make staying worth their while.

According to the CEO's testimony, they are gone and not the ones receiving the bonuses.

Because I never saw him as the chosen one and rarely if ever find myself in full agreement with anyone. If you see him as such, have you always agreed with him, or did you just use that term to distract from the actual issue at hand?

Thats AIG's problem. Noone held a knife and said stay. They threw fake money at them. Money that was not there. Do you not get that company was almost bankrupt. That noone there would have a job. Do you not get the American people are paying employees of a private company. This is not welfare.

I don't believe the new CEO. Why would I?

Chumpy, you are a democrat. Don't hide it now.

[jack sommerset]

Dude, they were probably more marketable to other companies back at the beginning of this fiasco and, recognizing that, AIG offered them the retention bonuses so they wouldn't flee to another company and leave AIG to implode.

Where? Come on. Are you saying they did not see this coming the past 12 months. If they had oppurtunities they should have left. Instead of holding out for money that was not there.

[Yonivore]

Candidate Obama vs. President Obama

[ChumpDumper]

Thats AIG's problem. Noone held a knife and said stay. They threw fake money at them. Money that was not there. Do you not get that company was almost bankrupt. That noone there would have a job. Do you not get the American people are paying employees of a private company. This is not welfare.

When free marketeers like Bush and Paulson their pants so badly when faced with the collapse of AIG that they trash their entire respective philosophies to bail them out, it seems pretty serious to me.

I don't believe the new CEO. Why would I?

So you can prove he is lying?

Chumpy, you are a democrat. Don't hide it now.

I have voted for members of both parties and will probably continue to do so.

[jack sommerset]

Candidate Obama vs. President Obama

classic

[Yonivore]

Where? Come on. Are you saying they did not see this coming the past 12 months. If they had oppurunities they should have left. Instead of holding out for money that was not there.

The money was there until Congress legislated it away.

Remember we're still only talking .009% of the bailout figure and probably, not a substantial amount against the AIG losses if, without a bailout, they'd of had to come up with the $165 million.

And, there's always bankruptcy court. That's the place these contracts could have been negated or renogiated should that have been necessary. These employees are creditors -- or were, until Congress stepped in -- just like all the other people and en ies AIG owed. Why aren't you as incensed about the billions AIG just passed through to other banks and companies who then used those funds to hand out bonuses, etc...?

I'm telling you, condoning this bill of attainder is putting too much power into the hands of Congress. That's why the Cons ution specifically limited that power.

The more I think about this the more I realize how screwed those AIG employees were.

[jack sommerset]

When free marketeers like Bush and Paulson their pants so badly when faced with the collapse of AIG that they trash their entire respective philosophies to bail them out, it seems pretty serious to me.

So you can prove he is lying?

I have voted for members of both parties and will probably continue to do so.

Keep blaming Bush. It was Obamas man that ok'd the bonuses to AIG. It was Obama to say later thats not cool and forced them to give it back

Can u prove he is telling the truth. Giving AIGs track record I say he has no clue whats going on?

I would be curious to know what non Democrat you voted for and why.

[jack sommerset]

The money was there until Congress legislated it away.

Remember we're still only talking .009% of the bailout figure and probably, not a substantial amount against the AIG losses if, without a bailout, they'd of had to come up with the $165 million.

And, there's always bankruptcy court. That's the place these contracts could have been negated or renogiated should that have been necessary. These employees are creditors -- or were, until Congress stepped in -- just like all the other people and en ies AIG owed. Why aren't you as incensed about the billions AIG just passed through to other banks and companies who then used those funds to hand out bonuses, etc...?

I'm telling you, condoning this bill of attainder is putting too much power into the hands of Congress. That's why the Cons ution specifically limited that power.

The more I think about this the more I realize how screwed those AIG employees were.

Not me.

[Yonivore]

Not me.

Yeah, I see that.

So, let's say you spent 10 years at a job, became an expert and, then, promoted to an executive position. A year or two down the road, your boss comes to you and says, "Say, Jack, when you were in the widget branch, you ran a tight ship. Unfortunately, the management that replaced you has made a shambles of the place and it threatens to bring down the whole company. They've made some poor investments and it is coming back to bite us big time. We fired them before they could do any more damage but, now we really need an expert to step in and try to clean it up and limit the damage. Even if you do a great job, it's highly likely that at the end of this road, we'll be restructured significantly and many jobs -- probably even yours -- will be gone. But, we're afraid that if you don't bring your expertise to bear, we'll completely collapse and cease to exist. I'm willing to pay you a 4 million dollar retention bonus if you'll stay until the job is done. What do you say?"

Now, keep in mind Jack, you have no idea there will be a bailout or any outcry over the bonus down the road. As far as your concerned -- and, indeed, since pretty much the beginning of contract law, you're pretty much assured of getting the money unless -- you fail and the company goes bankrupt, at which point you become another creditor to which AIG owes money.

If you had known that Congress would tax 100% of the bonus, would you have stayed? Only if you were a fool.

But, there are broader implications by this congressional act. I've already seen stories saying that, consider this and the Obama's threat to try and limit executive pay to $500K, we'll probably see a flight of financial talent so fast, it'll again jeopardize the economy. Not only that, how can any private investor trust the government will stand by any agreement made if some future Barney Frank whips the masses into a frenzy.

[ChumpDumper]

Keep blaming Bush. It was Obamas man that ok'd the bonuses to AIG. It was Obama to say later thats not cool and forced them to give it back

They were made in before he took office. I don't blame Bush for the bonuses.

Can u prove he is telling the truth. Giving AIGs track record I say he has no clue whats going on?

Seeing as all eyes are now on his company, the burden of proof is on you now.

I would be curious to know what non Democrat you voted for and why.

Several, because I liked them as candidates.

[jack sommerset]

Yeah, I see that.

So, let's say you spent 10 years at a job, became an expert and, then, promoted to an executive position. A year or two down the road, your boss comes to you and says, "Say, Jack, when you were in the widget branch, you ran a tight ship. Unfortunately, the management that replaced you has made a shambles of the place and it threatens to bring down the whole company. They've made some poor investments and it is coming back to bite us big time. We fired them before they could do any more damage but, now we really need an expert to step in and try to clean it up and limit the damage. Even if you do a great job, it's highly likely that at the end of this road, we'll be restructured significantly and many jobs -- probably even yours -- will be gone. But, we're afraid that if you don't bring your expertise to bear, we'll completely collapse and cease to exist. I'm willing to pay you a 4 million dollar retention bonus if you'll stay until the job is done. What do you say?"

Now, keep in mind Jack, you have no idea there will be a bailout or any outcry over the bonus down the road. As far as your concerned -- and, indeed, since pretty much the beginning of contract law, you're pretty much assured of getting the money unless -- you fail and the company goes bankrupt, at which point you become another creditor to which AIG owes money.

If you had known that Congress would tax 100% of the bonus, would you have stayed? Only if you were a fool.

But, there are broader implications by this congressional act. I've already seen stories saying that, consider this and the Obama's threat to try and limit executive pay to $500K, we'll probably see a flight of financial talent so fast, it'll again jeopardize the economy. Not only that, how can any private investor trust the government will stand by any agreement made if some future Barney Frank whips the masses into a frenzy.

I worked at a company for 10 years. I started off at the bottom and worked my way all the way to the top. I was promised stock,bonuses, increase in salary. They backed it up from pay check to pay check and do ents that showed my stock was worth money within the company and of course a contract that had bonuses.

I had my eyes wide open. I worked my ass off and I paid attention to what was going on within the cirlce of our company. I also saw the bills we could not pay.I saw the people that were scared. I knew this job was not going to be there much longer. I left. Got a new job that paid less and I kept my eye on my friends and co-workers I left behind so to speak. We talked about the promises they made, the gold at the end of the rainbow, the reasons why I left. They held out for hope.

I left on time. They should have known. They all lost there job 7-8 months later.

Thank goodness I guess for the government for bailing out AIG. If the company I was at had a second chance they would have made the right decsions not to get in to this mess again. Atleast I hope they would have. But what did AIG do, keep the good times rolling and forgot about all the problems they had before.

Thats my expierence in life and alot of people had. I am not mad. I moved on. My expierence and work ethics I was able to open up my own business 3 years ago and I am living good.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Thank goodness I guess for the government for bailing out AIG. If the company I was at had a second chance they would have made the right decsions not to get in to this mess again. Atleast I hope they would have. But what did AIG do, keep the good times rolling and forgot about all the problems they had before.

Thats my expierence in life and alot of people had. I am not mad. I moved on. My expierence and work ethics I was able to open up my own business 3 years ago and I am living good.

1. mate wouldve made sense if the economy kept on rolling..ur shares would be worth something, if you break it down per share you could earn more than per hour, but then again now the prices of the per shares are worth jack way less then what you earn per hour. I laugh at my friends who worked for banks and .....

2. Just wait till OBAMA increase land+estate taxes

[Yonivore]

The following is a letter sent on Tuesday by Jake DeSantis, an executive vice president of the American International Group’s financial products unit, to Edward M. Liddy, the chief executive of A.I.G.

DEAR Mr. Liddy,

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. I hope you take the time to read this entire letter. Before describing the details of my decision, I want to offer some context:

I am proud of everything I have done for the commodity and equity divisions of A.I.G.-F.P. I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have con uously escaped the public outrage.

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.

I take this action after 11 years of dedicated, honorable service to A.I.G. I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down.

You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I’d like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the ins ute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.’s meltdown last September, was named the head of business development for commodities. Over this period the equity and commodity units were consistently profitable — in most years generating net profits of well over $100 million. Most recently, during the dismantling of A.I.G.-F.P., I was an integral player in the pending sale of its well-regarded commodity index business to UBS. As you know, business unit sales like this are crucial to A.I.G.’s effort to repay the American taxpayer.

The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation. I never received any pay resulting from the credit default swaps that are now losing so much money. I did, however, like many others here, lose a significant portion of my life savings in the form of deferred compensation invested in the capital of A.I.G.-F.P. because of those losses. In this way I have personally suffered from this controversial activity — directly as well as indirectly with the rest of the taxpayers.

I have the utmost respect for the civic duty that you are now performing at A.I.G. You are as blameless for these credit default swap losses as I am. You answered your country’s call and you are taking a tremendous beating for it.

But you also are aware that most of the employees of your financial products unit had nothing to do with the large losses. And I am disappointed and frustrated over your lack of support for us. I and many others in the unit feel betrayed that you failed to stand up for us in the face of untrue and unfair accusations from certain members of Congress last Wednesday and from the press over our retention payments, and that you didn’t defend us against the baseless and reckless comments made by the attorneys general of New York and Connecticut.

My guess is that in October, when you learned of these retention contracts, you realized that the employees of the financial products unit needed some incentive to stay and that the contracts, being both ethical and useful, should be left to stand. That’s probably why A.I.G. management assured us on three occasions during that month that the company would “live up to its commitment” to honor the contract guarantees.

That may be why you decided to accelerate by three months more than a quarter of the amounts due under the contracts. That action signified to us your support, and was hardly something that one would do if he truly found the contracts “distasteful.”

That may also be why you authorized the balance of the payments on March 13.

At no time during the past six months that you have been leading A.I.G. did you ask us to revise, renegotiate or break these contracts — until several hours before your appearance last week before Congress.

I think your initial decision to honor the contracts was both ethical and financially astute, but it seems to have been politically unwise. It’s now apparent that you either misunderstood the agreements that you had made — tacit or otherwise — with the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, various members of Congress and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, or were not strong enough to withstand the shifting political winds.

You’ve now asked the current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. to repay these earnings. As you can imagine, there has been a tremendous amount of serious thought and heated discussion about how we should respond to this breach of trust.

As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house.

Many of the employees have, in the past six months, turned down job offers from more stable employers, based on A.I.G.’s assurances that the contracts would be honored. They are now angry about having been misled by A.I.G.’s promises and are not inclined to return the money as a favor to you.

The only real motivation that anyone at A.I.G.-F.P. now has is fear. Mr. Cuomo has threatened to “name and shame,” and his counterpart in Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal, has made similar threats — even though attorneys general are supposed to stand for due process, to conduct trials in courts and not the press.

So what am I to do? There’s no easy answer. I know that because of hard work I have benefited more than most during the economic boom and have saved enough that my family is unlikely to suffer devastating losses during the current bust. Some might argue that members of my profession have been overpaid, and I wouldn’t disagree.

That is why I have decided to donate 100 percent of the effective after-tax proceeds of my retention payment directly to organizations that are helping people who are suffering from the global downturn. This is not a tax-deduction gimmick; I simply believe that I at least deserve to dictate how my earnings are spent, and do not want to see them disappear back into the obscurity of A.I.G.’s or the federal government’s budget. Our earnings have caused such a distraction for so many from the more pressing issues our country faces, and I would like to see my share of it benefit those truly in need.

On March 16 I received a payment from A.I.G. amounting to $742,006.40, after taxes. In light of the uncertainty over the ultimate taxation and legal status of this payment, the actual amount I donate may be less — in fact, it may end up being far less if the recent House bill raising the tax on the retention payments to 90 percent stands. Once all the money is donated, you will immediately receive a list of all recipients.

This choice is right for me. I wish others at A.I.G.-F.P. luck finding peace with their difficult decision, and only hope their judgment is not clouded by fear.

Mr. Liddy, I wish you success in your commitment to return the money extended by the American government, and luck with the continued unwinding of the company’s diverse businesses — especially those remaining credit default swaps. I’ll continue over the short term to help make sure no balls are dropped, but after what’s happened this past week I can’t remain much longer — there is too much bad blood. I’m not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I’ll leave under my own power and will not need to be “shoved out the door.”

Sincerely,

Jake DeSantis

Well, it appears I wasn't too far from wrong.

[LnGrrrR]

Like he is going to fix the high cost of health care by increasing the
amount spent. Only a lawyer could come up with an answer like that,
see children, that is how you solve the debt problem.

Kinda like going to war in order to keep peace, right?

[LnGrrrR]

At what age is appropriate to give up on the dream of being a life long student and actually make a difference on this Earth?

False dichotomy. You can learn and make a difference at the same time.