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Don't know if Brown will choke or not but at least he'll show up for the game.
The sad thing is Whotttt will be rooting for Devin Brown to choke so that he can be "proven" right.
Don't know if Brown will choke or not but at least he'll show up for the game.
That's just it...he's handled pressure when he given that chance all season long...Why am I the only one that sees that?
When he asked to step for Manu he did so...when he was actually given the opportunity to hit big shots he has done so. When he has been trusted and been left in the game in games we are trailing we have won those games...our biggest come back wins of the season, our biggest win of the season, Barry has done well under pressure when asked to do so.
His passing has been great all season long...as I have been saying...what's happened is during his starts he gets more time for people to see it rather than brief glimpses...Aside from outside shooting, when Manu was out, Barry managed to dish and rebound (he had season highs in each) even when his shot wasn't falling. So now that he's back on the bench two days later, where did that go? What did he bring to the table today? He didn't hit the boards .... he didn't pass that well.
This guy does not get touches when he comes off of the bench and he does not handle the ball as much now as he did at the beginning of the season.
Kerr sucked his first year here too...it was the worst season of his career and he'd just come off of winning a le playing alongside Micheal Jordan in the 4th quarters of the finals...Was he doubting if he was a winner too?Like you, every Spurs fan wants Barry to succeed. And the Spurs have given him every opportunity to do so. They've had games where they run plays for him, they've had games where they have begged him to shoot. But it gets tiresome to watch him NOT perform. I thought the Barry signing was good. timvp thought it was great. But everyone was skeptical if he would be able to step up and find a role on a good team. Devin Brown is finding ways to contribute. Beno is finding ways to contribute. Barry needs to do whatever he can to do the same. It's not on Pop. It's not about running plays for him. It's about reaching inside yourself and finding ways to be a winner. He hasn't found that yet.
Why do you say this to me TimVP?
Go find your start Devin Brown thread...
I want to win a le and what have I done to ever indicate otherwise?
I am just being honest...
Are you rooting for the Spurs to lose because you support Devin Brown?
The only guy that has truly choked on this team this entire season was Devin Brown in that Houston game...I am just being honest..he doesn't hit shots in crunchtime, he gets shaky...and neither does Beno.
But I guess we'll learn that whottt is right again...the hard way. I wasn't the one on Hedo and Anthony Carter and Charlies Ward's jocks last season. Make fun of my pics and liking Mercer and Heal over Hedo and Carter/Ward all you want, but they weren't the ones that choked. The TRUST POP guys choked.
And no... I won't be happy about it if it happens and we choke again...did I seem happy about it last season?
Everyone is asking Barry to be traded?
And the problem will be resolved?
We bring him here because this team has a problem with his outside shot, we all acknowledge that Barry was one of the best shooters when he came to this team last season, who can we bring that can be better than him???
There aren't great shooters today in the NBA, if we really want a great shooter there are 3: Stojakovic, Redd and Allen. All the Hoiberg, Richardson, Korver guys are good today but can suck next year. In order to get a great shooter we have to hand out Manu or Parker.
If we all agree the biggest need of this team is an outside shooter then we should give to Barry all he needs to succeed, including playing time and systems he likes.
In my opinion, you won't get much more than Barry if you keep Manu, Tp and Duncan, I think that with these three we can win a championship every year and if we have only one weakness we can cope with it.
Last edited by Frenchise player; 03-20-2005 at 08:49 PM.
First half of the season. It's crunch time now, baby. Bring you balls or go home.our biggest win of the season, Barry has done well under pressure when asked to do so.
One game against the Suns....when he was actually given the opportunity to hit big shots he has done so.
No, it hasn't. He's made quite a few low IQ passes and been pulled from games because of it.His passing has been great all season long...as I have been saying
He hasn't done much with his touches, so they decline. It's cause and effect. Did you miss all the games where Barry has passed up wide open shots (not just 3's) and looked like a scared rabbit as he passes the ball to a teammate with the shot clock expiring and they have to hoist up a bad shot? Why would you want the ball in his hands if he doesn't want to do anything with it?This guy does not get touches when he comes off of the bench and he does not handle the ball as much now as he did at the beginning of the season.
Don't compare Barry's playoff track record to Kerr's.Kerr sucked his first year here too...it was the worst season of his career and he'd just come off of winning a le playing alongside Micheal Jordan in the 4th quarters of the finals...Was he doubting if he was a winner too?
Bull . Beno has hit 3's that have been momentum changers many, many times this season.and neither does Beno.
By the way TimVP....for someone to root for their team to lose just so they could be proven right, that would be a person who wants to be right out of desperation...
In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...
What I am desperate for is for my team to win an NBA le while Tim Duncan is in his prime and all the key pieces are in place...because this is a once in a lifetime dynastic opportunity for our little team. And I don't want to squander it because of a superficial and sensationalistic type analysis of players. Not to mention a stubborn refusal to utilize players strenghts because he doesn't play "Spurs Ball". Spurs Ball meaning perimeter chokes and 4th quarter collapses as much as it means champion.
Who was handling the ball when Beno was tearing Detroit apart? Who was handling the ball when Beno was on the floor but didn't do ? Who was handling the ball the majority of the time Barry was playing? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the last two are the same person, and he doesn't seem to understand the concept of perimeter passing or ball movement if it doesn't focus on Manu or Duncan. Beno played just as bad as Barry when Parker was handling the ball, when Parker went to the bench and Beno handled the ball, he tore it up. The Spurs ran, moved without the ball and kicked it out to open shooters. Barry's offense excels in that kind of offense.
What he doesn't do well is stand in the corner watching Duncan pump-fake for 20 seconds before he figures out whether or not he should shoot or pass, or watching TP dribble in to the quadruple-team in the paint and either hurling the ball at the basket or tossing the ball in the general direction of the three point line hoping someone is there. Beno is invisible out there when Parker runs the point, Barry is invisible when Parker runs the point, they both kick ass when they play together or when either one of them is running the point.
Why is it so hard to sub in Beno and Brent at the same time? Parker plays well with Manu and Duncan, while Beno, Barry and Rasho/Nazr play better together. Instead of trying to limit Barry to one dimension with this "He's just here to hit three's" crap, why don't the Spurs try actually getting him involved in the offense? He ran the entire freakin' offense in Seattle, he handled the ball, called the plays, spaced the floor, directed traffic and still found time to throw down a monster dunk, tear through the paint before the defense had a chance to get set and lay it up, and hit some big three's. Now his role is limited to standing in the corner and hitting the occasional three whenever Parker remembers he's out there? And we're wondering why he's struggling?
Ok...and Barry sucked before it was crunchtime by that definition, which means what ever his problem is it's not choking.
The big FT's against the Piston's, the heady guard play against the Nets...The only choke I've seen him make late in a game was that pass to Devin recently...watch that play again and you'll see Devin freeze...just like he did in the Houston...that ball was right in front of Devin and Barry had just sucked Devin's defender in...Barry was looking Devin the entire time he was setting that up...Devin had to take one step and shoot...instead he ran behind Barry after Barry passed the ball, then froze and watched it go by him without ever moving his feet.One game against the Suns.
Clear double standard here...statistically provable.No, it hasn't. He's made quite a few low IQ passes and been pulled from games because of it.
Barry is transition specialist...if you think those are bad or risky passes...be glad Jason Kidd was never on this team and be glad Pop holds Manu back.
Barry is the best passer on the team period. And it's not even close.
No I don't see Barry pass up that many open shots...and if he does he's usually passing the ball to some who is open closer to the basket....or someone he is in position to screen.He hasn't done much with his touches, so they decline. It's cause and effect. Did you miss all the games where Barry has passed up wide open shots (not just 3's) and looked like a scared rabbit as he passes the ball to a teammate with the shot clock expiring and they have to hoist up a bad shot? Why would you want the ball in his hands if he doesn't want to do anything with it?
This guy is a very smart offensive player...maybe the smartest in the NBA and I think that more now than I did before.
As for his quick passes...again, he has played most of his career on transition teams where teams don't have Tim Duncan to pound it inside...quick passing is how those guys get off open shots without a dominant bigman to get them open.
Barry's passes are always fast. And so are Manu's..............
Why did Kerr suck here his first year? Was Steve Kerr choking too? I mean what was the reason that year?Don't compare Barry's playoff track record to Kerr's.
In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...
That was seriously one of the funniest things I've ever seen someone post.
I can't wait to meet Whottt one day.
So in three or four games he got caught in the air and threw a desperation pass that got batted down, and now he's a horrible passer? He did that all the time in Seattle, but Mac-10 didn't throw a hissy fit and pull Barry from the game. He told him to settle down, and he usually did. He had three assists, one steal and no turnovers in tonights game. His A/TO and TO per 48 are still way the heck up there. If you want to bag on his shooting, fine. But don't poke around for every little flaw because you're looking for a scapegoat.
Last edited by Gerryatrics; 03-21-2005 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Wrong number, just noticed it, failed at math...
Obviously this post was one of the 2.7% of times you're wrong.In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...
No, I don't think he's a horrible passer; I think he's generally very good. But I just don't think his passing has been God-like. Sometimes, he makes stupid high-risk passes when a simple one will do. And I've seen him be pulled out of games because of it.
And I'm not looking for a scapegoat. The Spurs lost this game because of defense ... and that was because of no Duncan. That's easy to figure out.
But the Barry apologists need to realize that the majority of Barry's problems are not Pop's fault. They aren't Tony Parker's fault. They are Brent Barry's fault.
Passing = know where you teamates are (have a look or know it by heart) + know where your oppon. are + pass the ball...
barry seems to sometimes forget the 2nd step...
his Assist avg is quite low for his PT no?
so where go all those risky pass? It should make assist or you don't attempt them if it's not a pass that can make you score on your possession...
Barry's best games this season have come as a starter -- and that's when he spends the majority of the time on the floor with Parker. So how do you figure that Parker holds him back?Who was handling the ball the majority of the time Barry was playing? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the last two are the same person, and he doesn't seem to understand the concept of perimeter passing or ball movement if it doesn't focus on Manu or Duncan.
And again, that was something he did from time to time in Seattle, just like passing up open shots and passing it to a teammate instead. People got on his case for it all the time, but he still played an overall great offensive game. Sonics fans were calling for him to be a player-coach if Nate got fired. Fans wanted the Sonics to sign him to a four year contract just so he would stay with the organization and could join the coaching staff when he retired. His basketball IQ isn't the problem, I personally think that stripping him of almost his entire game and limiting him to a single role he hasn't done his entire career is. Maybe if he got involved in the flow of the offense, like he did when he started for Manu, his shots would start falling. And no I'm not saying start him over Manu to get his confidence up, I'm just saying use a smart lineup, let him handle the ball or get more touches, and don't get cute with his minutes so he's jolted around.
Here are my 2 cents,
I have been dissapointed with Barry's overall performance. I think he has had a difficult time to adapt to the Spurs offense. Most players that join the team do, so this is not surprising. He is shooting 3s at a lower rate than expected at the beginning of the season, and this is undeniable.
While letting him handle the ball more often in offense may help him improve his game and build his confidence (I am in favor of that!), as a professional player you adapt to the cir stances, and he has done a poor job at it. Defense is 70-80% will, and sometimes he just doesn't show it. I think he knows it.
Having said that, I have to agree with Whottt regarding his performances in the clutch. When the game is on the line, Brent's contributions have been very positive. To prove this, 82games.com people have collected statistics of the clutch moments of the game, defined as follows:
"Clutch Moments" defined as the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime, where neither team was ahead by more than five points.
The following is a comparative table for the 3 players being discussed in this thread.
Code:Team Player Min PER dPER Diff +/- Rating SAS Barry 41% 38.0 4.9 33.1 -8 31.2 SAS Udrih 18% 0.8 24.0 -23.2 +15 -14.9 SAS Brown 39% 14.6 35.0 -20.4 -15 -24.2
was he threaten to come and play for the silver & black...
he knew he wouldn't be a starter. when you sign for a team as he did, you know what your role is gonna be...
the only answer you can make to your future coach is "I will/will not handle the job"...
he said he could and signed, now we're waiting for him to make what he promised to do...
barry is ... dissapointing
Quite simply, Minutes. When Barry starts he gets more minutes, gets more consistant playing time, plays more with the reserves (beno) and plays more in the fourth quarter. His game is still more limited than it was in Seattle, and he still doesn't play *great*, but he does get a chance to get in to the flow of the game and of the offense.
I'm with Whott and Gerryatrics on this, from what little I have observed lately. My League Pass seems to have a smaller presence on my TV than Hedo does on the court in May.
Wasn't too long ago the big buzzword in Pop's vernacular was "matchups." Now, with the embarrasment of talent the Spurs have, matchups ought to take a backseat to "combinations."
Did Barry not understand the Spurs offense when he signed? Seems like a guy with a high BBall IQ would understand how the Spurs play. Were the Spurs supposed to change their entire offense to accomodate Barry? I think Spurs and Barry are both surprised he can't get the job he was supposed to do done.
Uhm, the Spurs team has changed dramatically over the past two/three years. I consider them a work of art in progress.
So, to answer your question, yes, I think the Spurs should change, although I think the term evolve is much more appropriate.
Yeah they've evolved. They post up. They run pick and roll. They play transition. They play the passing game. You'd think in all that Barry would be able to find a couple of shots.
In the playoffs the good teams will take away a lot of post ups and penetration. Transition game will go bye bye. Baryy can't hit the outside shots he was brought here to hit in the playofss Spurs are dependent on Manu, Brown, Horry and could well be ed.
why should the spurs change their o to fit one guy
what happens if they change their o and all the spur players except barry are off then
barry is paid much more then kerr was
people expect him to live up to his contract
kerr was cheap and he was used for spot minutes
barry was suppose to be a candiate for a 6 man award
the problem with barry is beno is playing better now is not the backup point
but barry also was brought to hit outside shots
he sucks
I would rather have hedo or stephen jackson
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