Yeah? And Manu in Jack struggled in certain aspects of the game in the playoffs as well....
I just don't think you guys are being fair to this guy...
What you fail to notice about his 3 point PCT's in the playoffs, compared to the others I mentioned....
He wasn't the one that had a dominant bigman drawing a double team to get him open...
Barry was brought in to be a SHOOTER.
He's not Rasho who can get away with clanging his every shot because he contributes on the defensive end. Yes, he runs a nice pick and roll, but other players do that just as well (or nearly as well for your sake) and contribute on the defensive end.
Yes, Steve Kerr coudln't buy a bucket his first season here. He had much the same problems. And guess what? He rode the pine.
We obviously disagree about the kind of season Brent is having. You wouldn't be arguing with me if you really felt that he was struggling. Since you think that he hasn't struggled and that he's met expectations, I can see how you would feel that he would perform in the playoffs. If you're happy with what he's giving us now, we'll simply have to disagree. I'm not satisfied with his performance, and combine that with his traditional playoff struggles and I don't have confidence in his ability to help the team.
I'll leave it at that. We'll just disagree.
He'll get on the floor in the playoffs. He'll get his shots for a game or 2, and if he hits them, he'll get more. If he doesn't, he'll ride the pine.
But, there is no reason to expect that to occour based on this seasons performance. I like his game, but he's just not hitting shots and thats what they need to justify playing him.
The entire thing with Barry is he is simply not filling the need that he was brought in to fill. That is to simply make open perimeter jumpers. The other stuff was a bonus, and could be an incredible bonus provided he begins to hit shots. But if he keeps shooting blanks he likely won't make any more of a difference on defense than Devin Brown does.
Barry is efficient on offense in the sense he avoids turnovers, creates assists, and hits at a decent percentage. But if the shooting is not there, then Pop is naturally going to get itchy to play Devin Brown considering he has proven to be a solid defender and can score at times. And with Pop's propensity towards playing defenders first its sort of understandable.
It is tough to swallow right now, I would like to see Barry contribute to some regular season wins right now. He has not played good basketball that much lately. But the skill set is there. I hope he figures it out.
Ultimately I want him to simply make open shots in the playoffs when it counts. With Tim Duncan. If he can do that, the team will fulfill it's potential.
I think he's been the best passer on the the team the entire season, and I think our offense has been better when he is getting big minutes the entire season(and being allowed to handle the ball) I think he's been unfairly criticized and maligned this entire season...not by the fans here on this board...but by Pop....I think Pop's quick hook with him has ed up his confidence...as it would anyone trying to fit in on this team after spending 7 years on a totally different style team and expecting to be a valued member of team but actually being treated like the rookies jock strap carrier...
I think when he was playing with confidence earlier in the season our team was looking to be one of the dominant teams in NBA history...and then everyone got on his ass because of his D...which was ing stupid since we were on pace to set the NBA record for margin of victory, opp APG, Opp FG% and PPG allowed...I think that ed him up...and I don't think he knows what the the Spurs want from him....it seems to be spot up shooting and defense...which makes the Spurs the dumbasses.
and it's not just Barry either...Horry and Malik had this problem too because they could be playing their asses off and Pop would DNCP them in a loss...
And obviously he has done that in every other playoffs series(and he probably wasn't open that often with a guy like Bruce Bowen on him)
That could be part of the problem. But Pop isn't going anywhere. Maybe it isn't fair to Brent, but if he's not able to produce with what he's being given, he doesn't really have a role. I'm not saying that I like how Pop has handled him, because I don't, but I also think that Brent has failed to fully take advantage of the opportunities he's had.
I completely agree with you. The Spurs had no idea Barry needed to be coddled like a WNBA shooting guard on the Seattle Storm. By now, RC and Pop should know not to pick pussies when they are hunting for free agents in the offseason.
Devin Brown and Beno are better spot up shooters than Barry...if that's all you want then bench Barry. I'll personally be interested in finding who the new scapegoat will be.
But once you do that don't expect in the playoffs when you bench this guy for the first time in his career..unlike Kerr he doesn't have 3 rings of confidence...I know, we wouldn't want to coddle him...
And then we find out what my deepest fear is...
You say Manu's not a shooter? Well neither are Devin and Beno...they are more like Hedo as far as shooters go.
As long as you realize the blame lies with Pop I can handle the rest of your dumb take.
Obviously Steve Kerr needed to be coddled too his first season here...
That's not all I want. I want him to be able to play well and make a difference within Pop's schemes. They aren't going to change. Shooting the ball well is part of that, but it isn't the only thing. It seems like common sense to me. If a player can play well within the system, play him. If he can't, bench him. It would be very helpful if Pop would do some things differently, but I fear that it isn't going to happen.
And as you can probably tell, I never expected Brent to do much in the playoffs anyway. As we've already discussed, his playoff struggles have been well do ented.
Manu isn't a pure shooter. Neither is Brown. Barry hasn't been that this season, either. I'm not confident in his ability to 'flip the switch.'
But I disagree with you about Beno. He's a pure shooter. He's got a really nice stroke and can hit from anywhere.
The comparison to Hedo isn't to say that they will choke like Hedo...only that Hedo wasn't really a shooter and we tried to use him as one.
Beno...he's played like one this year... but every pre draft scouting report I read on him said he wasn't a shooter...in any case...he's still a rookie, and I don't care how good a shooter he is he has played way over his head this season.
But once Barry gets benched then leave him on the bench and keep those struggles off court...and this means playoffs too...because this guys confidence will be shot...and he will be . And the Spurs handling of him has basically destroyed his confidence in every other aspect of his game.
Turning Barry into total will probably generate more celebration on the board than winning a le would have...
Personally I'd rather win a le than have reasons to hate Barry...obviously that's a minority opinion on this board. So let's make sure we don't coddle him...and let's make sure he knows he's dog .
One last thing on the Beno and Devin thing...RVB posted this statistical data on what Beno, Devin and Barry have done in clutch situations this season(according to 82 games.com):
and before you piss on that formula know that it rates Manu as one of the clutchest players in the NBA.
If this doesn't prove the double standard in labeling Barry a choker than I don't know what does...not to mention guys like TPark and TimVP saying he makes bad passes when in fact he is the most sure handed passer on the team.
So take a look at what Beno and Devin have done in crunch time...and remember it was you guys that wanted it that way.
Last edited by whottt; 03-22-2005 at 03:39 PM.
I just don't think he's fit in very well this season, so it doesn't really matter to me if his confidence becomes shot. He's not exactly tearing it up right now, so what will a loss of confidence change?But once Barry gets benched then leave him on the bench and keep those struggles off court...and this means playoffs too...because this guys confidence will be shot...and he will be . And the Spurs handling of him has basically destroyed his confidence in every other aspect of his game.
Turning Barry into total will probably generate more celebration on the board than winning a le would have...
I think Pop needs to continue to give him some minutes. If he figures out how to fit in (or, conversely, if Pop decides how to use him) he'll be very valuable. I just don't see Pop changing very much, so it's on Brent. He either needs to become what everyone was hoping he'd become in the limited minutes he's given or he'll be underachieving. Maybe confidence isn't his strong point anyway. I don't really know. Something has caused him to struggle in the playoffs, and it isn't just nagging defense from Bruce Bowen for one series.
And 98% of the people on this board would also rather win a championship too. When Hedo was coddled it had some negative results down the road. I don't think Pop should coddle Brent because it isn't good for the team, and more importantly, I don't think Brent needs to be coddled anyway. That's not the problem.Personally I'd rather win a le than have reasons to hate Barry...obviously that's a minority opinion on this board. So let's make sure we don't coddle him...and let's make sure he knows he's dog .
All I ask is that he take advantage of what's given to him. I don't hate him. I want to see him succeed and I've wanted that from day one. If he can play like he did in Seattle, the Spurs will be awesome. If he doesn't, I'm not going to hate him. But I'm not going to argue that he needs to get court time, either.
The playoffs matter most. Your formula isn't going to change years of bad playoff performances. What's a better indicator? I'll take what he's done for his career in a particular situation as an indicator of what he'll do in the future in those situations. The formula shows that he's performed in the clutch during the regular season. And to an extent, he's done that. He's also done that in past seasons to some extent. Nothing new there.If this doesn't prove the double standard in labeling Barry a choker than I don't know what does...not to mention guys like TPark and TimVP saying he makes bad passes when in fact he is the most sure handed passer on the team.
And he does make bad passes. He makes good passes, too, but he makes as many bad passes as any of the other guards. He doesn't turn the ball over as much, but that's an entirely different statistcal category.
Just in case I didn't make myself clear enough, assist-to-turnover ratio does not accurately reflect a player's passing ability.
im not saying not to coddle him. I just think you're being stupid for expecting Pop to and for everyone on the board to act like everything is ok... Oh poor baby Brent, Pop never bent over backward for him, ohhh he treats him like a rookie.
Well Barry never es about Pop's at ude because he knows hes expected to perform regardless, so I wish you would stop using it as a cop out defense. Why are you whining about Pop ruining Barry when Barry is an NBA veteran who knew what he was getting into when he signed the contract last summer.
Does Pop's mismanagement of the lineup frustrate everyone including Barry? Yes.
Would Barry play better if he got more minutes? Probably.
Should we rub Barry's back and say it was nasty Pop who screwed him and therefore accept his ty season? Absolutely not.
He's a grown ass man who has accepted that he needs to hit shots pretty damn soon, or else he's off the rotation. The sooner you realize that recognizing why Barry is not playing well does not give you the authority to excuse him of his poor season, the sooner everyone will breathe a sigh of relief.
SKerr didnt shoot well his first season so he didnt play. Stop pushing for Barry to play more minutes when he's not even fulfilling the only role we brought him in for.
Now that Devin Brown is out, do you think your husband will be able to hit a shot, or will the streak continue to three games?
Pop bent over backwards for Hedo, he started him while Hedo whined about not being able to play off the bench because he wasn't sure if he was going to get enough shot attempts....
Barry has never whined about one freaking thing this entire season, he's never pointed the finger or made excuses...and he has been more critical of himself than anyone...
And his problem isn't that he's whining about not getting enough shots...the criticism of him is that he doesn't take enough of them...
This situation could not be further from Hedo...and Barry and Hedo are two entirely different types players with entirely different goals and reasons for being here...
Barry can see the end of his career coming and he wants a ing ring and he was willing to be become a backup to do it......Hedo wanted to go play for the 21 win Magic and get $$$$$$$...
...and while Pop is trying to fix things now...early in this season he wasn't coddling Barry...he played hardball with him and would yank his ass from games...even that one game where he got yanked for his bad passing(I think against NO)...it was his only TO of the game. Barry hasn't been coddled...I think Pop is trying to do that now though...but he didn't go into this funk for the same reasons Hedo did...
Hedo was a baby and he didn't want to come off the bench in a contract year...Barry has a contract and lead the NBA in 3 point PCT off the bench...he's not Hedo!
He might be Terry Porter *shuddder* but he's not Hedo.
How can he be my husband when he's a WNBA player
My wife maybe...
The are you talking about? Gary Payton led Oregon State to a Pac-10 championship in 1990. He also led the team to the NCAA tournament three times. Brent Barry never led Oregon State to nothing.
Next time, you might want to check your facts before you make a fool of youself.
If you have more indepth stats then by all means post them....let's see what you got...
I have noticed that the more detailed the stat the better Barry looks statistically...and since I do that often I think that's a big reason I defend him from many of the criticisms...
If you have a stat you think more accurately reflects his passing ability, and I hope it doesn't come from your ass, then post it.
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