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Hakeem is better than Kareem. And nobody knows how dominant Wilt would be against modern players and their size. He'd be an all-star but would he be a top 5 player of all time?
You don't get it.
Jordan is only considered the "greatest" because he's still fresh in our minds.
As ludicrous as it seems, I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe is considered the greatest ten years from now, and Lebron the "greatest" 20 years from now.
Sure, we'd all be pissed and say Jordan not being considered the greatest is idiotic but there are many..many old timers out there saying we are idiots because we put Jordan over Wilt, Kareem, Russell...etc.
How about this?
Besides the six MVP's in the finals, what stat does Jordan have over Kareem?
Kareem's Stats:
Games played - 1560 (2nd most in NBA history)
Field goal % - 55.9 (8th highest in NBA history)
Free throw % - 72.1
Three-point % - 05.6
Rebounds - 17,440 (3rd most in NBA history)
Rebounds per game - 11.2 (tied for 24th highest in NBA history)
Assists - 5,660 (31st in NBA history)
Assist per game - 3.6
Steals - 1,160
Steals per game - 0.74
Blocks - 3,189 (3rd most in NBA history) (Note: blocks were not officially tabulated until the 1973-74 season..4 years after he came into the league)
Blocks per game - 2.57
Points per game - 24.6 (12th highest)
Holds NBA career record for:
Most points - 38,387
Most minutes played (57,446)
Most field goals made (15,837)
Most field goals attempted (28,307)
Most All-Star selections (19)
Most All-Star games played (18)
6 Regular season MVP's
2 Finals MVP's
You might say it took Abdul-Jabbar much longer to reach those numbers than Jordan but I consider longetivity in and of itself a measure of greatness also.
And yes, you are right, Nowitzki probably should be on that list.
Last edited by YellowFever; 06-14-2009 at 02:48 AM.
Hakeem is better than Kareem. And nobody knows how dominant Wilt would be against modern players and their size. He'd be an all-star but would he be a top 5 player of all time?
Last edited by Amaso; 06-14-2009 at 02:59 AM.
Not that outlandish. Certainly Hakeem was the better defender of the two. I wouldn't put Hakeem ahead of Jabbar, but it isn't the stupidest take in the world by a long shot.
I think it is.
Most people remember the late Lakers years from Kareem where he hardly rebounded and hardly blocked any shots and just jogged down the court for the skyhook.
I'd put any season Kareem had between 1969 to 1979 over Hakeem's most dominant season any day of the week.
You could take Kareem's entire career and make an argument of him over Hakeem, but to say Kareem's best years were better than Hakeem's best years is completely wrong.
We have to make some projected simulations to compare some players to other players of different times, as we can never put them all back onto their primes to hold a fair game on the horizontal court, and the stats are pretty much a business of their contemporaries and positions they play rather than the capabilities of themselves. Jordan would have gained an unbelievable 8 championship streak if he hadn't been playing baseball during his 2 absent seasons. In 1990s, Jordan had got may powerful rivals like Malone and Hakeem but he never allowed anyone of them to win even one championship except for the two seasons when he was playing in another league.
From watching them play, and factoring in their compatibility in all eras, it's more like:
1) Michael Jordan (GOAT, had good timing in his career)
2) Kareem Abdul Jabbar (Dominated the 1970s, Won 5 les in the 1980s, longevity = greatness)
3) Magic Johnson (Greatest Point Guard Ever)
4) Shaquille O'Neal (Most dominant force I've ever seen, Wilt not even close, once he had the triangle, Phil, + Kobe matured, he became a winner)
5) Tim Duncan (Best defensive anchor I've seen, at the same time a two-way player, unbelievably consistent, should've been Finals MVP 2007 imo)
6) Larry Bird (White Men Can't Jump, intelligent player)
7) Kobe Bryant (MJ upgraded, MJ Remix, MJ with longer range, playing in zone era)
8) Wilt Chamberlain (Dominated the 1960s, widening of lane affected his production, but still great because of what he did for the game, Dwight Howard is a remix of him)
9) Hakeem Olajuwon (Unbelievable player at 7-0, career leader in blocks, back2back les, outplayed all Cs in his era during his prime)
10) Bill Russell (11 les)
Last edited by Nahtanoj; 06-14-2009 at 10:29 AM.
Dirk is one of the best foreign players ever to play in the NBA and he's not on the list?
Hakeem's career stats:
http://www.basketballreference.com/p...d=OLAJUHA01%20
Kareem's career stats:
http://www.basketballreference.com/p...lkid=ABDULKA01
Hakeem's peak, production-wise, was from 1992-1996. And those numbers are dwarfed by Kareem's numbers in any 4-season span from 1969-1977.
I'm not saying that Kareem's better by any means. Just pointing out that your argument has holes in it.
This is so ridiculously stupid. How in the world can Shaq be above Kareem, Hakeem, and Magic?
How can Stockton and Barkley be over Robinson? Pippen over Gervin?
LOL Elliott Kalb had Shaq at #1 in his top 50 players book, this coming from a guy who never missed a single Michael Jordan Finals game - but he wrote it in 2003 so it's understandable.
That being said, I have Shaq above Hakeem, but not Kareem/Magic. Stockton and Barkley shouldn't be above The Admiral - and Pippen over Gervin is justifiable, Gervin was only a 1 way player - you can argue Rodman (who was placed too low imo) above Gervin as well.
Agreed. Nash doesn't deserve to be on this list.
SLAM compelled to put him there because of the abomination that is the back to back MP3s. If Dirk isn't on the list, Nash shouldn't be there either.
Shaq @ 4? Over Kareem and Magic?
Best Cs of all time
Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Shaq
No, he's not the second best point guard of all time. Fifth is about right, which is where he appears on the list.
5) Oscar Robertson
6) Magic Johnson
10) Jerry West
19) Isiah Thomas
22) John Stockton
I'd probably take a chance on Paul too, but no way you can put him over Stockton this early in his career.I know just how good, and how tough Stockton was. But if I was trying to build a championship team, and had a choice between Stockton or Chris Paul? I'm taking Paul. But he's not even on the list, and Stockton is #22. It doesn't fit.
Last edited by baseline bum; 06-14-2009 at 11:59 AM.
He was 220 when he entered the league. Besides, Rodman was an elite defender in Detroit at 210, and Russell is Rodman plus MUCH better shot blocking minus the sideshows. I was really skeptical about Russell too until I started seeing a lot of his games on ESPN Classic and NBATV. I have never seen anyone with his quickness off the floor and his ability to anticipate shots and not fall for fakes.
No way. How many other players could dominate a Finals against a team (and frontcourt) as amazing as what the 85 Celtics had at age 38?
Most of Kareem's peak years in LA were played with an extremely weak supporting cast (LA gutted their team to trade for him). If you watch the guy in the 70s he was a serious athletic freak, and he carried the Bucks to a le and to a game 7 of the Finals in his 4-5 year stay there.You could take Kareem's entire career and make an argument of him over Hakeem, but to say Kareem's best years were better than Hakeem's best years is completely wrong.
Kobe should be number 1 on the list.
Not a horrible list
Still, No Pete Maravich, and they have the balls to put Nash/Kidd on the list? Hold on, I think I'm gonna be a little sick...
Last edited by BlackBellamy; 06-14-2009 at 12:46 PM.
Dead? That's pretty harsh.
maybe he was playin against slowpokes....
Yea no pistol pete bugs the out of me and Oscar rob. avgd a triple double an entire season folks.
In due time..
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