Phoenix-Houston

[tempe85]

BasketballReference.com tracks Defensive Efficiency... Here is where every Championship team ranked the season they won (since the ABA/NBA merge).

2004 - Pistons - 2nd
2003 - Spurs - 3rd
2002 - Lakers - 2nd
2001 - Lakers - 2nd
2000 - Lakers - 1st
1999 - Spurs - 1st
1998 - Bulls - 3rd
1997 - Bulls - 4th
1996 - Bulls - 1st
1995 - Rockets - 12th
1994 - Rockets - 4th
1993 - Bulls - 8th
1992 - Bulls - 4th
1991 - Bulls - 6th
1990 - Pistons - 1st
1989 - Pistons - 3rd
1988 - Lakers - 11th
1987 - Lakers - 6th
1986 - Celtics - 2nd
1985 - Lakers - 6th
1984 - Celtics - 6th
1983 - 76ers - 5th
1982 - Lakers - 9th
1981 - Celtics - 4th
1980 - Lakers - 9th
1979 - Sonics - 1st
1978 - Bullets - 9th
1977 - Blazers - 9th

Correction: The 2001 Lakers ranked 19th in the league in deffensive efficiency.

Check it for yourself: http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2001.html

It's ironic that you put the Lakers second because guess which team really finished second in the league that season? The Phoenix Suns... like I said it's ironic.

This shows that 8 times a team has been ranked 8th or below in defensive efficiency. Which means: A team can win without a great defense.

[Spurminator]

I think the quality of the Suns' eventual Playoff opponents will surpass the quality of the 2003 Mavs' opponents. That was a good Mavs team, and they may have very well made it to the WCF regardless, but they went to 7 games against a bruised Portland team and the Webber-less Kings. That's not a knock on the 2003 Mavs, just to say that I think Phoenix's opponents will be tougher.

I think a healthy Mavs team can knock off Phoenix, because they have the ability to run with them and they have the advantage in the half court set.

[Spurminator]

Correction: The 2001 Lakers ranked 19th in the league in deffensive efficiency.

Check it for yourself: http://www.basketball-reference.com...s/NBA_2001.html

Good catch. I must have looked at offensive efficiency for that one.

I have to be stealthy since I'm at work.

[Spurminator]

This shows that 8 times a team has been ranked 8th or below in defensive efficiency. Which means: A team can win without a great defense.

Yes, but the "8" is sort of arbitrary, don't you think?

If this website is correct, Phoenix ranks 19th this season in Defensive Efficiency. If 8th is the cutoff for "great," then 19 borders on "poor," IMO.

[tempe85]

Yes, but the "8" is sort of arbitrary, don't you think?

If this website is correct, Phoenix ranks 19th this season in Defensive Efficiency. If 8th is the cutoff for "great," then 19 borders on "poor," IMO.

Like I just showed you... the Lakers did it in 2001 with a 19th ranked defense.

By the way I just noticed.... Look at the bottom of the page

Stats should include games ending on: 12/23/2004

That list was updated about 4 months ago.

[tempe85]

By the way I found the Suns current offensive efficiency is 114.

Do you want to know something....

All time officiency ratings:
1. 1987 Los Angeles Lakers (112.3)
tie 1992 Chicago Bulls (112.3)
2. 2005 Phoenix Suns (112.2)

Now I know their defensive efficiency is near the bottom of the league but when you have the greatest offensive effiency EVER it's a lot different than simply having the best for one year (which means it more than makes up for bad play on one side of the court).

[Spurminator]

Fair enough, here are the updated totals.

1 San Antonio 95.5
2 Chicago 98.4
3 Detroit 99.2
4 Houston 99.3
5 Memphis 100.3
6 Miami 100.9
7 Denver 101.0
8 New Jersey 101.2
9 Philadelphia 102.1
10 Dallas 102.2
11 Cleveland 102.4
12 Indiana 102.9
13 Boston 103.9
14 Orlando 104.0
15 Golden State 104.4
16 Phoenix 104.4
17 Washington 104.4
18 LA Clippers 104.4
19 Minnesota 104.6
20 Sacramento 105.3
21 Seattle 105.4
22 Portland 105.4
23 Charlotte 105.8
24 New Orleans 105.9
25 Toronto 106.3
26 Milwaukee 106.3
27 New York 106.5
28 LA Lakers 107.3
29 Utah 107.9
30 Atlanta 108.5


Like I said before... Middle of the pack. Only one team, the 2001 Lakers, has won a le with that poor a defense.

Can it be done? Sure. But it is very rare.

[Nikos]

Where did you get those updated totals?

And what are the Offensive Efficiency Ratings?

[Spurminator]

I calculated them...

DEFF = Opponent Points / (FGA + 0.44*FTA - ORebs + TOs)

[Spurminator]

Here's what I'm calculating for OEFF...

1 Phoenix 112.2
2 Miami 109.4
3 Seattle 109.4
4 Sacramento 107.3
5 Dallas 107.3
6 San Antonio 106.2
7 Toronto 105.5
8 LA Lakers 105.3
9 Boston 105.1
10 Minnesota 105.1
11 Cleveland 104.1
12 Washington 103.9
13 Milwaukee 103.8
14 LA Clippers 103.6
15 New York 103.4
16 Memphis 103.3
17 Denver 103.3
18 Detroit 103.3
19 Indiana 103.3
20 Orlando 103.0
21 Houston 102.6
22 Utah 102.4
23 Golden State 101.0
24 Philadelphia 100.6
25 Portland 100.4
26 Chicago 99.0
27 Charlotte 98.4
28 Atlanta 98.3
29 New Jersey 97.8
30 New Orleans 97.4

[tempe85]

At that Knicks site they calculate offensive efficiency as Points Per 100 Possesions.... I'm pretty confused... about the sytem you used. Where is a clear definition to this stat?

Thanks

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Badda bing, badda bump...

Please repeat after me.

THE SUNS ARE NOT THE MAVRICKS.

They are a completely different team and this is a completely diffferent season.

I understand the comparisons but it is seriously flawed logic to say that.
Suns = Mavs and Spurs beat Mavs (in 2003) therefore Spurs beat Suns (in 2005).

There are some very good reasons to argue that the Spurs would beat the Suns this year, this is not one of them.


There is nothing about the Suns style that prevents them from playing defense. Defense is determined by personel and execution not the 'style' of play.

Because the refs swallow the whistles in the playoffs the better athletes are at a disadvantage on offense but that doesn't mean they can't play defense.
I guess you missed the last time Nash sat out and the Suns won anyway. I guess you also have missed the improved play of Nash's backup Barbosa. They are better with Nash, but they are not as bad without him as they were during the 6 game losing streak in January.

SirChaz, any sign of that in game one? Did the refs mess up the Suns yesterday? Any thoughts on the Suns defensive "personel (sic) and execution"?

[SirChaz]

Badda bing, badda bump...



SirChaz, any sign of that in game one? Did the refs mess up the Suns yesterday? Any thoughts on the Suns defensive "personel (sic) and execution"?

Spurs played great and shot the ball very well yesterday.

The Suns will have to play better to win.

The Spurs made some tough shots. We'll see, it ain't over yet.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Spurs played great and shot the ball very well yesterday.

The Suns will have to play better to win.

The Spurs made some tough shots. We'll see, it ain't over yet.

What about the officiating though as far as the Suns so far in the playoffs? I haven't watchted them much (it's been hard enough watching all the late games the Spurs have had so far). Earlier in the thread, you made a comment that indicated to me that you were concerned the that the Suns game would suffer because of what you consider physically more permissive officiating. The Suns swept the Grizz and handled the Mavs in 6. Yesterday happened as well.

In your opinion, has the officiating had any impact on the Suns in the postseason so far?

[SirChaz]

What about the officiating though as far as the Suns so far in the playoffs? I haven't watchted them much (it's been hard enough watching all the late games the Spurs have had so far). Earlier in the thread, you made a comment that indicated to me that you were concerned the that the Suns game would suffer because of what you consider physically more permissive officiating. The Suns swept the Grizz and handled the Mavs in 6. Yesterday happened as well.

In your opinion, has the officiating had any impact on the Suns in the postseason so far?

It has been pretty good so far. It has clearly been more physical but that is to be expected. As the intensity level goes up it is only natural that things get a little more physical. Of course both Memphis and Dallas fans have complained about the refs every time they lose. I think all anyone can hope for is consistancy from the refs, that is they call the same thing on both ends of the floor and for the whole game.

There have been some games that hurt the Suns the way they were called like game 4 against Dallas but it was not the reason they lost. In that game the Suns gave it up on the boards in the first half but couldn't get enough breaks to come back. On one play Amare was hacked by Dampier on a dunk attempt and then called for a little bump on Howard for a 5 point swing.

I saw some missed calls yesterday but overall it was called pretty well I thought.

The Spurs just shot the out of the ball yesterday and kudos to them.

In several situations both Memphis and Dallas beat themselves. The Spurs will not do the same and the Suns will have to play at thier best to beat them.