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if there's a ceremony.Without Bruce we will still have 4 les. Lets retire #34
I felt that way back when his Jersey was retired, just look up my posts, it shouldnt have been done. But if his is up there, there is no WAY you dont retire Bruce's Jersey.
if there's a ceremony
I actually agree with Pat Riley on this one. He states that Jordan was so transcendent that his number should have been retired by every team, so he took that step and retired 23 in honor of Jordan.
One of the few problems I have with Lebron is that he wears 23 because of Jordan. I've done a complete 180 on Lebron since he's come into the league and feel that he should have a different number in the interest of starting his own legacy.
If Lebron were to be the greatest of all time, he'd do it wearing Jordan's number still.
However, let's say he wore 15 or something like that, how many kids for years to come would wear that 15 jersey in honor of the greatest of all time (should he achieve that many years down the line)?
I know, I actually saw them win all 6. However, as ESPN argued, the Spurs are the 3 greatest franchise because of the consistency shown over the years by the franchise.
The Bulls have a great 90s run and that's it. The Spurs have been very successful throughout the history of the franchise, save for the 80s teams.
Anyway, regardless of what you think or feel, Bowen was a major cog in the Spurs' championship teams, and his number will be retired.
How about all the clutch 3's year after year. The smart play and ofcourse the D.
Gee, if you do that, then let's just add a bunch more good Spurs. Larry Kenon, Terry mings, Mike Mitc were either the 2nd or 3rd best player on their teams. These guys were great players in their own rights, had great Spurs careers and averaged more points, rebounds, etc. than Bruce Bowen ever thought about. We didn't win the championships because of Bruce Bowen. We won them because of Tim freakin Duncan.
Ok so there are 2 types of posters in this thread:
- people who watch and understand what basketball is about and think Bowen's jersey should be retired
- others
Others being lets use the Lakers criteria for retiring jerseys
Wait, so you're ok with AJ's jersey being retired, but not with Bowen's? Surely I'm just misinterpreting something here.
And you keep bringing up Chicago not retiring Rodman or Kerr. I don't see how it's relevant to the argument. Nor Fisher with LA. Should the Spurs sit around and wait to see what Chicago or LA do before deciding how to honor any more of their own players? Do they need permission? (BTW I wouldn't see a problem with LA retiring Fish's number. I'm not sure they would, and I'll never forgive the little turd for .4, but it wouldn't be absurd to me if they went that route)
Every franchise is a little different. The Spurs valued teamwork, defense, and desire to win over statistics for many years. It won them 4 les. I'd like to see them honor those values by raising Bowen's jersey. I understand you seem to think it's a little much, I just don't buy either the "it cheapens the gesture" argument, nor do I buy the slippery slope argument (Andrew Gaze, up to the rafters with you!) If the Spurs decide it's the appropriate response, then I'd love to be there that night to cheer Bowen one more time.
Was Duncan the foundation of the championship teams? Of course, and that's why his jersey will be in the rafters the SECOND he's available to attend the ceremony.
But it's disingenuous to say he won them on his own. No one can, and if someone DID think he single handedly won les, they don't understand how basketball is played.
The core of the 99 team (sans Duncan) is already up in the rafters. The core of 03, 05 and 07 are all still playing. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are given, and if anyone can conjure up a coherent argument for leaving the last two off, I'll be shocked.
There is one other player who played on all 3 teams, who started, logged 30+ minutes every night, who routinely did everything to win and stepped up time and time again in playoff situations. How anyone doesn't include Bowen in the core of those 3 le teams is beyond me.
The only Spur in danger of not having his number retired out of this group is Manu. Dude needs to turn in one more awesome 2005-style playoff run capped off with a championship and maybe even challenge for the Finals MVP again. Right now he's more famous for his bald spot than his game and that needs to change immediately.
I never said he single handedly won les. I said we won les because of him. Take him off our team and we would have won ZERO ING LES! Much like Chicago would have won ZERO ING LES without MJ.But it's disingenuous to say he won them on his own. No one can, and if someone DID think he single handedly won les, they don't understand how basketball is played.
Sure you need a team and the big 3 are locks to be in the rafters. Bowen? Not so sure.
Consider it done!!!
We had some good teams in the early eighties, 83 western conference finals team, after we traded the Iceman it went downhill for 5 years or so. Not bad for rebuilding till D Rob came to town.
I am on the fence on Bowen's jersey, I am leaning to no. There is definitely going to be 3 going to the rafters soon, but Avery makes it seem like the door is open. I kind of feel like it would Chicago retiring Kukoc's number, is it necessary?
I hope Bowen's jersey is hung in a way to box out our view of the Avery Johnson jersey.
That would be a first. To have a future Hall of Famer on your team who doesn't get his jersey retired.
And don't think he isn't a HOF'er with his international achievements as well.
Pretty much.
Anyone that discredits Bowen by bringing up stats loses spur fan status by default.
Those of you that keep justifying Avery because he hit the shot that sealed the first championship are ridiculous.
It was game ing 5 and we were dominant that offseason. We weren't going to lose 3 games in a row.
Bowen's block on Billups' 3 late in Game 7 in 2005 was much more important than Avery's shot in game 5.
Avery was the career assist leader. It wasn't just the one shot. Of course, we were all used to him missing them.
Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired period. And those few nonbelievers need to stop their bull about Bowen being a "role" player. Just because he wasn't an all-star player doesn't mean that he hasn't earned a jersey retirement. He was very important to the Spurs le run in 03. His defense on Kobe was superb. And remember the 6 3 pointers he made one game. No Bowen in 03 = Lakers 4peat. 05, Bowen completely harassed Ray Allen and Shawn Marion and did an excellent job against Rip. He did the clutch block on Billups. 07, Bowen made LeBron disappear. He also did great at defending Nash. Bruce has also done alot for the community. He is a true Spur at heart. Right now, so many Spurs fans want him back even if he's old as .
And fkla, you're an idiot if you think Avery deserves a jersey retirement over Bruce. So one winning shot > defense that lead to three les. Btw, i think Elliott's shot did it for the Spurs in 99. Anyways, Tim, Manu, Tony, and Bruce all deserve a jersey retirement. If Bowen was just a "role" player, he would have been gone a long time ago. But he was worth so much that his jersey should be raised. No question.
Yes.
Nothing else to discuss
Bowen represented what the Spurs was about the last 8 years by working hard, playing the best perimeter defense in the league, and valuing teamwork.
To compare his contributions to those of Malik Rose, Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman is absolutely re ed, and shows little to no understanding of basketball.
Bowen was more influential on the Spurs 3 championships than Avery Johnson was on the 99 le.
Who cares how other teams decide whose jersey gets retired. This is about the Spurs and how they decide. I think that Bowen's contributions to the Spurs and to the community over the past 8 years justify his jersey retirement, as do most posters.
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