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Would it help if I said something nice about the Coyote here?
David Robinson has done some fictional things too...you let me know how many 6'4 gymnasts you've seen in your lifetime.
I'm just going to throw this out there...
David Robinson is the only C besides Wilt to put up 70 points in a game.
He and Kareem are the only players to lead the league in scoring, boards and blocks.
He and Michael Jordan are the only players to win a scoring le and DPOY award.
Difference between David Robinson and them?
David Robinson played no highschool basketball.
I repeat, the man played no highschool basketball.
I won't go into the other non-athleticism based almost fiction like achievements, like qualifying for MENSA with SAT score, or keeping a running total(including tax)in his head of the bill when his mom won a supermarket shopping spree...
But you get the non-fictional point right?
In 1996 David Robinson was the career leader in Olympic blocks, the all time leader in NBA blocks per game(his numbers went down after his injury), and held the NCAA record for career blocks, blocks in a season and single season blocks per game...
Once again for emphasis, the man played no highschool basketball.
I'll give you Wilt could jump higher(which is definitely a premium talent on the basketball court)....I won't give you any other field of athleticism at least not without a better argument, this argument is about the best athlete, not just the highest jumper.
I can take one look at Wilt's body type and see pretty easily he probably wasn't going to walk the lenght of a basketball court on his hands either.
Last edited by whottt; 08-28-2009 at 12:04 AM.
Would it help if I said something nice about the Coyote here?
*gasp* . . . robinson228 you ain't. Very shocking and disappointing.
...maybe it was Rodman that played no highschool basketball then. Ah well...Ok, he played no highschool basketball till his SR yr of highschool then.
My bad.
I still stand by the point.
Hmmm...that article doesn't seem right though, I don't believe David Robinson was 6'7 in highschool...
If so then he was actually 6'7 instead of 6'4 when he qualified for the Naval Gymnastics Team....which is even more sickening.
Certainly understandable. Hardcore knowledgeable Spurs fans are known to get the two confused all the time.
I'm pretty sure he was 6'7". The story I remember is his growing six inches in a year.Hmmm...that article doesn't seem right though, I don't believe David Robinson was 6'7 in highschool...
If so then he was actually 6'7 instead of 6'4 when he qualified for the Naval Gymnastics Team....which is even more sickening.
And now will you please stop editing this post? You're stepping on my jokes.
DR/DR
I keep my filing system and my fandom separate. Besides, even I didn't know who Drob was in highschool.
And even IBM's get glitches on occasion.
I like you much better when you stick to humor btw.
I just want to say thanks for reminding me what training camp is all about
I've thought it was that he grew 7 inchest while in the Navy, like in the span of year...
If he was 6'7 in highschool and grew 7(or 6) inches period in the Navy that means he's 7'4.
Hmm...I might have to call BS on that entire wiki article.
I am a little late to the party, but I vote D Rob as most athletic. I also wanted to point out 6 or 7 inches added to 6'7 would be 7'1 or 7'2, I am just sayin.
Two words...
Off
Season.
For what, the National Arithmetic Association?
Shoog never fails to land some sig worthy quotes in a thread when he really feels the need.
Honestly, what you are doing is the same as the following:
I personally have never met, seen, or talked to 4down, but I mean come on, the guy has Herpes and 1 leg.
Fair enough. that was a bad post. Abchang can be vindicated in his criticism.
In reality I have seen film - not a lot, but enough to know that it ain't for sure that he was hands down a better ahlete than Drob or Howard.
Who told you I had herpes?
There were many arguments throughout the thread before I chimed in, whatever I could say would probably just repeat what was said.
That has much more to do with change in defensive philosphies rather than individual abilities. Before the Pistons, defense was an afterthought, and the speed in which the game evolved in the 90s since the success of the Pistons demonstrated that the players have the ability to change along with the game.
I watched those games as well, and while defense certainly sucked back in the day, another part of it was also there were great passers as well. People fawn over the passing abilities of Nash and Kidd, but it just doesn't compare to those of Magic and Bird, who not only passes to a player for open shots, but create scoring opportunities by passing to an area where their teammates should go. They just see the game 3 steps ahead of everyone else.
The point was that players and teams do learn from those of the past. The Knicks and Rockets had that bruising defensive philosophy from the Pistons, the Spurs in turn evolved the Rockets defensive philosophies and offensive game by having the dominate big + 4 shooters model, which evolved by adding new offensive wrinkles with the penetration of Parker and Ginobili.
On an individual stand point, Jabbar (I think) created the reverse dunk to shield the ball from a blocker using the rim, Cousy invented the behind the back dribble, Tim Hardaway popularized the killer cross over done by Nate Archibald, and was since improved upon by Allen Iverson, Hakeem learned his ball fake from some teammate during his college day (don't remember the name), and kept improving it to be part of his dream shake. People learn from others who played before them, take the good parts, improve upon them and make it great.
Players, and Scientists, can certainly break new grounds though the years. Sure it was much easier back in the day for Socrates to come up with new theories when there was absolutely no study on the subject of science, the Newtons and the Einsteins break new ground by discovering aspects of life that has never been thought before. Life, and the universe, is so complicated that we as humans probably haven't explored a minute part of it.
Sure, basketball is not as complicated as the universe, but we have seen advances being made in the game in every decade, Jabbar with his skyhook, Magic and Bird with their passing, Jordan with his dominance at the guard position, Duncan with his bank shots, Shaq with his combination of agility and power. I am sure I am going to see the games of LeBron James evolve to a new level, and it's also a reason I would not consider Kobe Bryant as one of the best of all time, because he tried to hard to emulate what Jordan did, and lost his own signature.
I am sure they would, and I am sure Wilt and Russell would have dominated in the 80's, 90's and 00's.
I am still not sold on Howard. His offense is still far away, and his defense is based more on athleticism than understanding of the game. I would love to see him dominate one day, because he is really a showman and a joy to watch, but I doubt he could ever attain the level of a Shaq or an Hakeem.
Wilt footage vs. David footage
Wilt gets blocked twice in his own highlight reel. Wilt was legendary in his own right, but let's not put a blue ox by his side.
Is he as athletic as those guys, though? My biased opinion is that David was more athletic, but Dwight is a beast.
Another bit about Robinson, I am sure I have read somewhere that he was golfing in the low 70's the first time he picked up a golf club. That's the level of coordination and control you are dealing with.
Bingo - although the hook shot in wilts video around 1:18 was money.
Are you talking about the one year of highschool vs no highschool? That pretty much changes nothing...it's the difference between 1 and 0.
And Wilt still has no rep as any sort of a defensive stalwart...I do not believe there was a defensive player of the year award while Wilt was playing, and blocked shots were not an official stat until after Wilt retired.
It's more impressive if David Robinson was the fastest player on all of his teams. And there's an interview with Pop right now that confirms he was the fastest player on his team when he entered the league(and I've seen interviews that he actually could outrun Tony Parker, even in his final year).I couldn't answer the question of Wilt being able to walk on his hands, but Wilt was the fastest player on all of his teams in the 60s and it wasn't even close.
However, blocked shots were kept by team stat takers and Wilt averaged a triple double in points, rebounds and blocked shots. Had record been kept his blocked shots numbers would blow Hakeem's way out of the water.
I'll look up a quick video of Wilt when he played with the Globbies later. In case you didn't know though, Medowlark Lemon played center on that team and Wilt played guard, so in this video Wilt pulls off at least one move I believe that you would think was a guard (partly because it was, he was just 7'1")
David was pretty much the PG of the 94 team...he didn't lead the league in assists, but up better assists number than any other C of his era(and I think Chris Webber is the only PF or C since to beat David's 4.8 outside of Garnett
s typically high numbers), but then again bigman assists are the measure of double teams as much as anything else, and there's no doubt Wilt faced a great many of them.
But I still don't believe he was faster than Drob, and I don't believe he was any stronger either.
We should get some video and see just how fast they were....
It's a no-brainer that Wilt doesn't have David's arms.
sure, I'll take that. Arguing height is usually something you only do in basketball arguments and height isn't necessarily true arithmetic...
You get points for being funny of course, but I'm still pulling the out of condition card(and waiving it).
The answer is so obvious and is Wilt as stated above:
Wilt was a world class athlete as a sprinter, high jumper and without weight training was strong as a bull.
Robinson > Howard and even a young Shaq might be greater than Howard who is a great leaper but what else?
Only that it was the greatest blocker in the history of the league, Bill Russell.
And let's face it, everybody gets blocked in the NBA at one point or another.
I challenge anyone to watch those videos and tell me Wilt was in the same stratosphere of speed or quickness as Drob.
Drob just looks like he runs in a totally different gear than anyone else, and that's against modern NBA players.
That footage of Wilt is obviously slowed down, but he's still not anywhere close to Drob.
And Drob being faster than any body else on his team is a of a lot more impressive than Wilt being able to make that claim.
Wilt was a collegiate level high jumper, and that's without putting much practice or training into it. If Wilt were around today and trained the way athletes trained today with all the advances in conditioning, weight-training, and nutrition, he'd easily be a world class high jumper.
There's a distinction to be made, as often there needs to be with comparisons that pit individual athletes from different eras. I probably agree with the notion that David Robinson is the fastest among those mentioned in the thread. But, if we break it down to natural athletic ability, I think everything we know about Wilt Chamberlain would give him the edge overall athletically.
We're talking about him being in an era where there was little to no weight lifting for basketball players, probably little to no isometric training, certainly not the advancement in nutrition and cardio conditioning there is now. With what we know about Wilt, and granted a lot of it could be exaggerated to some varying degrees, I think there's a strong case for him being the most naturally gifted athlete in the history of the NBA.
The claims that he played against a bunch of 5'11" white guys are outrageously ignorant. I don't really believe that Wilt had a 50 inch vertical. But, I believe that if there are enough people who were in the know that contended it, he was probably in the neighborhood. And, a 45-48 inch vertical for a 7'1", 275-290 lbs guy is still pretty incredible. He has his high school times of a 10.9 second 100 yard dash and 49 second 440 yard run in the books. Neither are close to world record times, but are pretty impressive for a guy his size and probably not the best he could have done since that was high school. I believe (and this is from memory of reading and watching stuff about Wilt) that his best in high jump is 6'8" or 6'9" and that's with little time and training put into it. Again, with actual time, effort, and training, I could see him getting close to clearing a 7 foot bar.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet either, but after he retired from the NBA, he played several years of professional volleyball as well.
Wilt was the first real "athletic freak" in the NBA. Based on purely "natural" athletic ability, I don't know if there was, is, or will be a greater athlete than him in the NBA, center position or otherwise.
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