Buck Harvey: Got Nazr? The trade shows life

[whottt]

So Aggie...are you revising history now to where Malik didn't/doesn't even play hard?

Keep hating...it's making you stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

I know what you think Zeke should be doing but if you think his edict from MGMT is to get under the cap and rebuild you are way off base.

Never said it was. Zekes just going to keep trading - he'll trade those picks he got too.

Isiah got them back into the post season in his first year and he's upgraded the talent tremendously.

And took them right back out of the postseason.

He has one edict...and that's to win.

And so he's losing on purpose now. Got it.

But no I don't think they expected him to solve the Knicks preexisting problems in a year and a half.

Did they expect going backwards, increasing payroll and losing out on playoff revenue?

On top of that, they are doing everything they can to limit his effectiveness...they got him playing 20 feet away from the basket.

Wasn't he supposed to be good from there?

They are tanking it but you can't just be blatant about it

Beating Indy? Beating Cleveland?

Check out the fouls and remember they were playing a back to back.

Wait. Are you saying they were instructed to foul? Doesn't that go against everything you said about the players not being told anything? Make up your mind.

Players give up when they have nothing else to play for. Every Knick worth a crap is under contract for the Knicks or assured a contract for next season. Atlanta is full of guys playing for their next contract or option -- which group has any impetus to put in a good effort? To be more judicious with their fouls? Two of Atlanta's most productive players tonight were Lue and Diaw. Lue is a free agent this summer and Diaw is up to have his option taken by the team. Add two hungry rookies and you've got all the incentive necessary to knock off a bunch of vets who all have at least $12 million left on their deals and whose biggest decision this summer will be which palm tree to nap under.

[whottt]

.And took them right back out of the postseason.

happens...he's done more in his year and a half than Layden for most of his career.

And so he's losing on purpose now.

Yeah dip because he can't make the playoffs. Damn you ing stupid...

Got it.Did they expect going backwards, increasing payroll and losing out on playoff revenue?

It's not a one or the other option...I gurantee you they weren't expecting to trim payroll this year though.

Wasn't he supposed to be good from there?

He is good but a non idiot would realize that making a positon change is kind of a big deal.

Beating Indy? Beating Cleveland?

Losing to Atlanta? To Toronto?

Which way do you think is more likely to appease the fans on the way to the lottery? The players aren't tanking.

Wait. Are you saying they were instructed to foul? Doesn't that go against everything you said about the players not being told anything? Make up your mind.

And so begins Chump putting words(stupid words that only he could concieve of) into my mouth yet again....and then making an equally stupid response to his own stupid words and claiming scoreboard...


Idiot...I didn't say the players were instructed to foul...you are just too dense to come up with any other meaning behind those fouls...I'll watch you toil in stupidity for a while before deciding whether or not to give you the relevance behind those fouls and what they may be indicative of...at which point you will then continue to be stupid and split hairs or not get it.

Players give up when they have nothing else to play for. Every Knick worth a crap is under contract for the Knicks or assured a contract for next season. Atlanta is full of guys playing for their next contract or option -- which group has any impetus to put in a good effort?

Then why did the Knicks beat Cleveland and Toronto? Contradict yourself much?

Add two hungry rookies and you've got all the incentive necessary to knock off a bunch of vets who all have at least $12 million left on their deals and whose biggest decision this summer will be which palm tree to nap under.

They are the worst team in the NBA asshat...you are the one talking about how the Knicks were bumping off Cleveland...which team do you think is better?

[ChumpDumper]

happens...he's done more in his year and a half than Layden for most of his career.

And it's still pretty substandard. If you compare a piece of to a bigger piece of , you are still pimping a piece of .

Which way do you think is more likely to appease the fans on the way to the lottery?

They haven't given a about fans in years.

And so begins Chump putting words(stupid that only he could concieve) into my mouth yet again.


Idiot...I didn't say the players were instructed to foul...you are just too dense to come up with any other meaning behind those fouls...I'll watch you toil in stupidity for a while before deciding whether or not to give you the relevance behind those fouls and what they may be indicative of.

Vets mailing it in. So that just supports my point about them. Thanks.

Then why did the Knicks beat Cleveland and Toronto? Contradict yourself much?

I never said the Knicks didn't suck -- there is no contradiction there -- they sucked before and after the trade. But the all-important fan! Which one would they undertstand throwing more if they didn't suck enough to throw games against supposedly tier teams? Contradict yourself much?

They are the worst team in the NBA asshat...you are the one talking about how the Knicks were bumping off Cleveland...which team do you think is better?

Exactly.

[whottt]

And it's still pretty substandard. If you compare a piece of to a bigger piece of , you are still pimping a piece of .

Only an idiot would think the Knicks could be straightened out in a season and a half.

They haven't given a about fans in years.

That's not true...they do care about their fans which is why the carry the highest payroll in the league...

They have a different breed of fan...they cannot use the financially strapped excuse and their ing fans know it...and that's why you won't ever a see a conventional(and just as ineffective) rebuild in New York...and that's why even now they rank 7th in the NBA in attendance.

Vets mailing it in. So that just supports my point about them. Thanks.I never said the Knicks didn't suck -- there is no contradiction there -- they sucked before and after the trade. But the all-important fan! Which one would they undertstand throwing more if they didn't suck enough to throw games against supposedly tier teams? Contradict yourself much?Exactly.

No, but if you are going to lose knocking off a playoff team along the way does more to satisfy the fans than losing to them and beating the lottery teams...

Your point is totally contradictory...I am the one who said let's see what happens in the next two games...guess what? They lost to the worst team in the NBA at home....let's see what they do next...let's see if there are more curious injury abscences positional changes....or decisions to play washed up no game vets over promising rookies who played a big role in their surge.

[ChumpDumper]

Only an idiot would think the Knicks could be straightened out in a season and a half.

A bigger idiot would call going backwards progress.

That's not true...they do care about their fans which is why the carry the highest payroll in the league.

Which is why they actively choose to throw home games against the worst team in the league. Make up your mind again.

Your point is totally contradictory.

As are all of yours.

I am the one who said let's see what happens in the next two games...guess what? They lost to the worst team in the NBA at home.

Guess what? They suck and are capable of losing any game. If they were just flipping switches to beat playoff teams then they would've been a playoff team. Next you'll be saying Malik's injury is faked.

Oops, you just did.

[whottt]

A bigger idiot would call going backwards progress.

An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.

Which is why they actively choose to throw home games against the worst team in the league. Make up your mind again.

That's to make sure they get a good draft position.

As are all of yours.

Mine make total sense...you are just unable to grasp them...and the sky is blue.

Guess what? They suck and are capable of losing any game. If they were just flipping switches to beat playoff teams then they would've been a playoff team. Next you'll be saying Malik's injury is faked.

Oops, you just did.

Yeah cuz teams never fudge on injuries or are overstate them, now do they?

Did you ask ing Manu how his stomache felt against Golden State? What an obtuse ass you are.

It's something that's easy to manipulate going outside of the players and coaches...


I can think of at least two mystery injuries that the Knicks haven't totally explained...one with Thomas(that aided in a monster losing streak) and the other other with Ariza....all it takes is a partial injury or philosophical change from the FO...

I can't believe you are actually ing acting like teams don't tank. Get ing real. None of them do it obviously. The Knicks can't go from being a game and a half out of the playoffs to a 30 game losing streak without raising just a couple of eyes you moron. If they set the NBA record for consecutive losses would you be convinced? ! Everyone else would be also.

[ChumpDumper]

An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.

It isn't? They aren't resposible for anything? They have no effect on the team at all? Then don't give them any credit if things go right either, hypocrite.

That's to make sure they get a good draft position.

And the winning helps that too, right?

Yeah cuz teams never fudge on injuries or are overstate them, now do they?

Say it right now. Get off the fence and say it's fake. And then say Malik is going along with it. And then backtrack.

[whottt]

It isn't? They aren't resposible for anything? They have no effect on the team at all? Then don't give them any credit if things go right either, hypocrite.

There are no absolutes...sometimes the FO is at fault and sometimes what happens is out of their control.

And the winning helps that too, right?

I already explained it to you..Isiah is not going to just walk into the huddle and say ok boys let's tank...

You deal yourself or the coach a bad hand and then let them try and win with it...you say don't play Ariza I want Jerome to develop his game and shoot his 1 foot J from 14 feet tonight...Let's see how Malik does against LeBron... like that.


I bet you think Pop was trying to win when he fired his coach and hired Dominique "the human ,and ancient, lottery ball" Wilkins...

Say it right now. Get off the fence and say it's fake. And then say Malik is going along with it. And then backtrack.

Again you exhibit a glaring lack of imagination. Malik has no voice in if he plays or not, all it takes is a slight tweak and the doctor/trainer being "protective" under orders from the GM to keep him out of the lineup...What we will never truly know is if Malik could have played or not...just don't try and tell me that teams don't overstate or flat out fabricate injuries or that it isn't a part of evry day life...

Don't tell me that Pop's ing with the rotation while he was complaining about too many easy blowout wins was intended to make it easier for us to win at that time....and if you try and say it you'll be arguing with Sean Elliott as well.

[vincerodriguez23]

I think the trade with Mohammed and Rose, both teams are gettin what they wanted. Malik is contributing for the Knicks just as much as Nazr has with the Spurs. I feel bad for Malik that he has to sit out for the playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

There are no absolutes...sometimes the FO is at fault and sometimes what happens is out of their control.

An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.

For the love of God, make up your mind.[/QUOTE]Malik has no voice in if he plays or not all it takes is a slight tweak and the doctor being protective to keep him out of the lineup...what we will never truly know is if Malik could have played or not.[/QUOTE]Malik knows, and Malik can speak.

Don't tell me that Pop's ing with the rotation while he was complaining about too many easy blowouts wins was designed to make it easier for us to win at that time.

He was tanking. He wanted to lose HCA all year long.

[whottt]

For the love of God, make up your mind.

There was absolutely no contradiction in those two statements. I don't think Isiah wanted the Knicks to suck until they were out of the playoffs. I think he tried to win and due to things like...Nazr Mohammed sucking ass for all of January...and Tim Thomas having familial problems...that the team just spiraled down, he tried to fix it and he couldn't...how ing hard is that to realize? Do you not have a brain cells worth of common sense?

Malik knows, and Malik can speak.

Malik's not a podiatrist...

He was tanking. He wanted to lose HCA all year long.

Did I say that? He definitely wanted closer games....and I am not so sure he does want HCA throughout the playoffs for some reason...he certainly hasn't done every thing in his power to get it...maybe he wants our pick to be before the Knicks pick...maybe he wants that 2 ssed draw or maybe he is just being "disclipined" with Duncan's PT...but I believe that you yourself made note of the fact that Duncan should have been on the court on the last defensive posession of that Utah game...

[ChumpDumper]

There was absolutely no contradiction in those two statements. I don't think Isiah wanted the Knicks to suck until they were out of the playoffs. I think he tried to win and due to things like...Nazr Mohammed sucking ass for all of January...and Tim Thomas having familial problems.

but he got those guys, right? Blameless if it's bad -- all the credit if it's good. As long as it fits the agenda.

Did I say that? He definitely wanted closer games....and I am not so sure he does want HCA throughout the playoffs for some reason...he certainly hasn't done every thing in his power to get it...maybe he wants our pick to be before the Knicks pick...maybe he wants that draw.

Stay right on that fence.

but I believe that you yourself made note of the fact that Duncan should have been on the court on the last defensive posession of that Utah game...

You believe wrong. Again. Duncan was done. That had to do with Duncan and nothing else. I was against the small ball lineup. Nazr with Horry would've sufficed.

[ZStomp]

Who cares about the #1 seed.

The Spurs will do fine with or without the #1 seed.

Believe.

[whottt]

but he got those guys, right? Blameless if it's bad -- all the credit if it's good.

Whatever...just be sure you lable RC as sucking for getting Nazr...and be sure to be more critical of that trade in the future...since you criticize Isiah for it...and I'm sure Tim Thomas and Isiah would have preferrreed his relatives not die...

as it fits the agenda.Stay right on that fence.

I am on the fence with that...since you were critical of it too what do you think he was doing in that game? Being stupid?

You get off the fence.

Duncan was done. That had to do with Duncan and nothing else. I was against the small ball lineup. Nazr with Horry would've sufficed.

Prove it...I can show you quotes where Duncan was trying to stay in the game...

[ChumpDumper]

Whatever...just be sure you lable RC as sucking for getting Nazr.

And if it works, you give him props right? Fat chance.

Prove it...I can show you quotes where Duncan was trying to stay in the game...

We're talking about what I said, dumbass. Not Duncan. I said it was about Duncan because of Duncan's health and his schedule for recovery. He was done because the schedule said so, not some secret agenda for making games more difficult. You really aren't very bright.

[whottt]

Answer the ing question or STFU...and go fix that response that you mangled in the other thread.

[ChumpDumper]

You should ask the question first.

[whottt]

It's already been asked...why do you think Pop put that lineup on the floor at the end of the Utah game...you know, the one you were critical of...You answer the ing question.

This oughta be good.

[ChumpDumper]

why do you think Pop put that lineup on the floor at the end of the Utah game.

There are all kinds of reasons for going with the lineup he did. He had to consider Duncan's injury, the matchups, the players he was integrating into the lineup trying to see what they could do in this situation for the future and the kinds of plays the Jazz were having success with late. He took all that into consideration and that's what he decided. He wasn't really allowing for Manu to get beat and the Jazz having time for a rebound and putback. It's easy to second guess after seeing what happened, so what?

Now get off the fence and say Pop tanked that finish because he didn't want HCA or STFU.

[whottt]

There are all kinds of reasons for going with the lineup he did. He had to consider Duncan's injury, the matchups, the players he was integrating into the lineup trying to see what they could do in this situation for the future and the kinds of plays the Jazz were having success with late. He took all that into consideration and that's what he decided. He wasn't really allowing for Manu to get beat and the Jazz having time for a rebound and putback. It's easy to second guess after seeing what happened, so what?

I should have known....

Now get off the fence and say Pop tanked that finish because he didn't want HCA or STFU.

I am certain his major motivation was not HCA, I am certain of this since he has admitted it's not as important to him as entering the playoffs healthy...and that certainly fits some definitions of tank.

Even according to you the reason could have been some kind of stupid ing experimentation with HCA at stake...that's still a certain definition of tank...or not doing everything in your power to win.

But for all I know he might actively not want to be in the top spot...maybe the Spurs have someone in mind with their draft pick and don't want Isiah snagging him...maybe they don't want to be in that 1 bracket, it's definitely the less friendly bracket. Maybe he actually wants the Nuggets or Rockets in the first round...


But to get back on topic...I get what you are saying...Teams never tank.

[picnroll]

Who cares about the #1 seed.

The Spurs will do fine with or without the #1 seed.

Believe.

Spurs will be 2005 NBA champions and Whott will still be ing "yeah but they could have been the one seed if they had kept Malik".

[whottt]

I won't if they win the le. I don't hate the Spurs, I love the Spurs. I don't hate Pop he just does some stuff that really pisses me off sometimes that I just don't get. And I just don't like that trade, and it's not because of sentimentality.