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  1. #76
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Ho ho. Good one. After a decent interval, I'll steal it from you.

  2. #77
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It must be good to live in this safe world where communist nations that nationalize oil fields in the height of the Cold War. Also just pay no attention to the declassified kgb papers that authenticate the notion of ussr working to allie with iran. Then you got the persians and arabs all becoming commies, and then all our oil being controlled by our enemies. Europe would have been just fine with all their oils controlled by enemies. We all know how well Japan fared by it.
    Aw, you googled a little.

    Which countries turned communist again?

    None of them, you say?

    Your attempted resurrection of the idea of the communist monolith is quaint.

    Also do you have any facts that base the shah's political prisoners are even closely similar to the political prisoners killed in Iran this year alone?
    The shah reportedly had over 2000 political prisoners in 1978.

    Who said this?

    We must straighten out Iranians’ ranks. To do so, we divide them into two categories: those who believe in Monarchy, the cons ution and the Six Bahman Revolution and those who don’t.... A person who does not enter the new political party and does not believe in the three cardinal principles will have only two choices. He is either an individual who belongs to an illegal organization, or is related to the outlawed Tudeh Party, or in other words a traitor. Such an individual belongs to an Iranian prison, or if he desires he can leave the country tomorrow, without even paying exit fees; he can go anywhere he likes, because he is not Iranian, he has no nation, and his activities are illegal and punishable according to the law.
    How many political prisoners were killed in Iran this year? Give me some numbers.

    So after the US used military force, then we were safe from Iraq. Way to keep your moron record maintained.
    We were never in danger from Iraq. That was the whole point.

    Finally how many Americans were killed by Iranians when the shah was in?
    Well, had the US not invaded Iraq, they wouldn't have been killed by Iranians either.

    Please tell me who which country is currently the greatest ally to Iraq's government in the region.

    Hint:
    Last edited by ChumpDumper; 12-17-2009 at 11:52 PM.

  3. #78
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Obviously there is some 20/20 hindsight in my views, but hey -- we all used to think that communist paratroopers would plausibly assault a south Colorado high school, right?

  4. #79
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    nice long post. But it doesn't take brilliance to see that the Iran-Russo alliance had more to do with oil control than communist expansion.

    SnC pointed that out.a Now nobody knows what you're talking about half the time because you're not focused on understanding the point of the opponent but trying to find weak spots.

  5. #80
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    nice long post. But it doesn't take brilliance to see that the Iran-Russo alliance had more to do with oil control than communist expansion.
    Whose control?

    SnC said they all turned or would have turned communist. Let him speak for himself.

    SnC pointed that out.a Now nobody knows what you're talking about half the time because you're not focused on understanding the point of the opponent but trying to find weak spots.
    We supported dictators and spilled blood for oil.

    Sounds familiar; at least this time you admitted it.

  6. #81
    Keith Jackson mookie2001's Avatar
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    Aw, you googled a little.

    Which countries turned communist again?

    None of them, you say?

    Your attempted resurrection of the idea of the communist monolith is quaint.



    hahaaahaha please hammer dont hurt em

  7. #82
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    And yes, it's terribly easy to find weak points with you guys.

    It's not my fault.

  8. #83
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    we all used to think that communist paratroopers would plausibly assault a south Colorado high school, right?
    If you didn't piss your pants, you hate America.

  9. #84
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    hahaaahaha please hammer dont hurt em
    take it easy on em
    dont hurt em hammer

  10. #85
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    It must be good to live in this safe world where communist nations that nationalize oil fields in the height of the Cold War. Also just pay no attention to the declassified kgb papers that authenticate the notion of ussr working to allie with iran. Then you got the persians and arabs all becoming commies, and then all our oil being controlled by our enemies. Europe would have been just fine with all their oils controlled by enemies. We all know how well Japan fared by it.
    Also do you have any facts that base the shah's political prisoners are even closely similar to the political prisoners killed in Iran this year alone?

    So after the US used military force, then we were safe from Iraq. Way to keep your moron record maintained.

    Finally how many Americans were killed by Iranians when the shah was in?
    I'm sorry, are you trying to give people lessons in geopolitics?

  11. #86
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    nice long post. But it doesn't take brilliance to see that the Iran-Russo alliance had more to do with oil control than communist expansion.

    SnC pointed that out.a Now nobody knows what you're talking about half the time because you're not focused on understanding the point of the opponent but trying to find weak spots.
    solid arguments don't have weak spots

  12. #87
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    An improvement for America is Iraq is no longer a sanction for terrorists. Iraq no longer has a dictator in charge of a huge amount of the world's oil, in which the OPEC loses more of their pricing power. Iraq no longer has a dictator who funds suicide bombers, terrorists, marxist* regimes. Iraq no longer has a ruler who tries to assasinate american diplomatic officials.
    your stupidity knows no bounds. so i guess we stay forever..when do we invade the next bad guy state?

  13. #88
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Iraq is no longer a member of OPEC, SnC?

    Please explain.

  14. #89
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    your stupidity knows no bounds. so i guess we stay forever..when do we invade the next bad guy state?
    so liz cheney, does iran get to have a nuclear weapon?

  15. #90
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Iraq is no longer a member of OPEC, SnC?

    Please explain.
    what?

  16. #91
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    so liz cheney, does iran get to have a nuclear weapon?
    Let's tell them not to. let's tell them we know whats best for them...lets be thre world policemen. in fact, we can give you a plastic badge and a clipboard! How about that skippy?

  17. #92
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'll agree that nationalization movements are largely overreactions to past slights that usually effect more overreactions from without and more problems within.

    Like US/UK sponsored coups d'etat. Problem is that Iranians have a long, long memory. Even those not crazy about the Islamic republic aren't automatically crazy about the US.

  18. #93
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    An improvement for America is Iraq is no longer a sanction for terrorists. Iraq no longer has a dictator in charge of a huge amount of the world's oil, in which the OPEC loses more of their pricing power. Iraq no longer has a dictator who funds suicide bombers, terrorists, marxist* regimes. Iraq no longer has a ruler who tries to assasinate american diplomatic officials.
    Please explain.

  19. #94
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Let's tell them not to. let's tell them we know whats best for them...lets be thre world policemen. in fact, we can give you a plastic badge and a clipboard! How about that skippy?
    We should fight countries from having weapons that might make us and our allies dangerous. Also the arms race that would be created in the middle east.

  20. #95
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    The more countries that sell their oil outside of OPEC's manipulated price will take away from OPEC's power. The more allies in opec the better. Right now OPEC's policy on lower demand is to jack up the price.

  21. #96
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    We should fight countries from having weapons that might make us and our allies dangerous. Also the arms race that would be created in the middle east.
    That could be 75% of the rest of the world. Do you intend to invade everyone to accomplish this?

  22. #97
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    ON THE MEXICAN WAR



    TO WILLIAM H. HERNDON.



    WASHINGTON, February 15, 1848.



    DEAR WILLIAM:--Your letter of the 29th January was received last night. Being exclusively a cons utional argument, I wish to submit some reflections upon it in the same spirit of kindness that I know actuates you. Let me first state what I understand to be your position. It is that if it shall become necessary to repel invasion, the President may, without violation of the Cons ution, cross the line and invade the territory of another country, and that whether such necessity exists in any given case the President is the sole judge.



    Before going further consider well whether this is or is not your position. If it is, it is a position that neither the President himself, nor any friend of his, so far as I know, has ever taken. Their only positions are--first, that the soil was ours when the hostilities commenced; and second, that whether it was rightfully ours or not, Congress had annexed it, and the President for that reason was bound to defend it; both of which are as clearly proved to be false in fact as you can prove that your house is mine. The soil was not ours, and Congress did not annex or attempt to annex it. But to return to your position. Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If to-day he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."


    The provision of the Cons ution giving the war making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This our convention understood to be the most oppressive of all kingly oppressions, and they resolved to so frame the Cons ution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood. Write soon again.



    Yours truly,



    A. LINCOLN.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 12-18-2009 at 12:15 PM.

  23. #98
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    A. Lincoln's example as President was admittedly different.

  24. #99
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    The more countries that sell their oil outside of OPEC's manipulated price will take away from OPEC's power. The more allies in opec the better. Right now OPEC's policy on lower demand is to jack up the price.
    What incentive does Iraq, as a member of OPEC, have to keep oil prices low for the US?

  25. #100
    Veteran
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    "Right now OPEC's policy on lower demand is to jack up the price."

    also done when US$ is low, since they get paid in US$ by oil purchasers.

    But last summer, when the oil was $140/barrel, the Saudis said they had oil to sell, but no buyers, so they claimed it wasn't tight supply that drove up the price.

    commodity traders (eg, Wall St) play a significant (secret) role in oil (other commodities) price volatility. Just another way "free markets" and massive global liquidity flows us all over.

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