13% of black men in late 20s in jail or prison

[The Ressurrected One]

This is the last time I'm going to try to put it where you can grasp it, and if you don't get it after this, I sincerely give up.

That situation doesn't mean that you're going to end up in jail. It puts you in a position where you are more likely to go to jail. In other words, if you place a group of 100 people in that position, and you place 100 in a favorable position to succeed, which group do you think will have more people in jail?

They all had choices, and they all were told that college was the better way to go, but the group in the projects with undoubtbly show a much higher rate of incarceration. Just like in the study you posted.

That's not to say that they shouldn't be incarcerated if they commit a crime, but it does provide an understanding as to what is happening on a sociological level.

In other words, if you understand what is happening and what causes large groups of black americans to go down this path, you can start to solve and stop it.

But if we all just sit back and say they have choices, and that is the only thing we do about it, do not expect those numbers to change overnight. America has no problem exploiting those same groups. MTV , record labels, and the entertainment industry as a whole has made billions on the commercializing of the ghettos.

Critics everywhere love a movie like 8 mile because it shows that a person can succeed in that situation, but then everyone goes back to ignoring those people once again.

If Eminem is the beacon of hope for your community, that's pretty damn sad.

Slavery, discrimination, and poverty are not free passes for African Americans today. They still have to abide by the same laws as the rest of us. And I never said or even implied otherwise. But what needs to be recognized and tackled, is that as long as these people grow up in the same conditions as they do now, there will be a much higher rate of criminal activity.

You're simply wrong. The barrios and colonias of the valley don't produce, in proportion, the same number of criminals as do the black ghettos.

I contend it is the result of soft bigotry that allowed blacks to take on "victim" status and become wards of the state -- thereby ensuring they perpetuate their dependence on government.

If more blacks would make the conscious decision to break the cycle of dependence, more blacks would leave the ghetto and make something of themselves. Unfortunately, their culture -- including music, family dynamics, and peer pressures -- don't exactly encourage improving their station in life.

It's sad really. But, frankly, I'm getting pretty sick of the black community blaming racism for 100% of their problems.

[MannyIsGod]

You're simply wrong. The barrios and colonias of the valley don't produce, in proportion, the same number of criminals as do the black ghettos.

I contend it is the result of soft bigotry that allowed blacks to take on "victim" status and become wards of the state -- thereby ensuring they perpetuate their dependence on government.

If more blacks would make the conscious decision to break the cycle of dependence, more blacks would leave the ghetto and make something of themselves. Unfortunately, their culture -- including music, family dynamics, and peer pressures -- don't exactly encourage improving their station in life.

It's sad really. But, frankly, I'm getting pretty sick of the black community blaming racism for 100% of their problems.

I'm so angry at what you just wrote I'm not going to respond.

[Clandestino]

You're simply wrong. The barrios and colonias of the valley don't produce, in proportion, the same number of criminals as do the black ghettos.

I contend it is the result of soft bigotry that allowed blacks to take on "victim" status and become wards of the state -- thereby ensuring they perpetuate their dependence on government.

If more blacks would make the conscious decision to break the cycle of dependence, more blacks would leave the ghetto and make something of themselves. Unfortunately, their culture -- including music, family dynamics, and peer pressures -- don't exactly encourage improving their station in life.

It's sad really. But, frankly, I'm getting pretty sick of the black community blaming racism for 100% of their problems.

yes, it is unfortunate, but that seems the case... blames racism for everything. it is easier to make an excuse than to work hard and keep a job.

[Clandestino]

I'm so angry at what you just wrote I'm not going to respond.

that is a response..

[exstatic]

I'm so angry at what you just wrote I'm not going to respond.

That's why Yoni-bore is on my ignore list. Yes, I figured out his new handle after like two posts.

[dcole50]

glad that adorable racist returned.

[The Ressurrected One]

I'm so angry at what you just wrote I'm not going to respond.

Okay by me.

[mookie2001]

ressurrected one and clandestino why dont yall just get it over with, become friends, and start playing golf, watching foxnews and customizing your suv's together, eat chicken salad, talk about sean hannity, shop at the quarry, whatever people like yall do

[Clandestino]

ressurrected one and clandestino why dont yall just get it over with, become friends, and start playing golf, watching foxnews and customizing your suv's together, eat chicken salad, talk about sean hannity, shop at the quarry, whatever people like yall do

when you stop making excuses i will do all those things...

[The Ressurrected One]

...whatever people like yall do

Post in forums.

[Clandestino]

ressurrected one and clandestino why dont yall just get it over with, become friends, and start playing golf, watching foxnews and customizing your suv's together, eat chicken salad, talk about sean hannity, shop at the quarry, whatever people like yall do

and remind me once again... who is customizing the out of their suvs?

[The Ressurrected One]

and remind me once again... who is customizing the out of their suvs?

I own a hybrid and a minivan.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

C) Endentured Servitude, something my Irish ancestors endured, was every bit as oppressive and punitive as slavery and, in many respects, afforded the servant fewer rights than did slavery. At least, with slavery (as offensive as the prospect of owning another human being is) was somewhat safer in that a "prized" slave [read hard working and productive] was cherished and well-taken care of. There are many stories of slaves befriending their owners after emancipation and staying on as paid help. Endentured servitude on the other hand, generally ended up with the servant wasted and thrown out on the street when the person to whom he was endentured was done with him. Many were murdered (just like slaves) without any justice (just like slaves). Many worked for years without pay (just like slaves) but, unlike slaves, more than not, when their endentured servitude was done -- there was nowhere to turn...America didn't even attempt the type of reconstruction and support -- as ineffectual as it was in many cases -- that was afforded ex-slaves.

Sorry, I think black America needs to buck it up and quit whining...every other "victim" group that has been chewed up and spit out by America over the centuries has, for the most part, moved on and lived life without demanding some kind of reparation for past harm.

It's tiresome...

I hope you really do believe that because it makes me feel smarter.

[The Ressurrected One]

I hope you really do believe that because it makes me feel smarter.

I take it you disagree?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

No, i guess I purposely ignored all the passages about how White People constantly raided Irish settlements and coralled Irish villagers like animals and took them to the edge of the known world against their will under indescribably disgusting conditions

[The Ressurrected One]

No, i guess I purposely ignored all the passages about how White People constantly raided Irish settlements and coralled Irish villagers like animals and took them to the edge of the known world against their will under indescribably disgusting conditions

I guess you did. Read more.

[desflood]

No, i guess I purposely ignored all the passages about how White People constantly raided Irish settlements and coralled Irish villagers like animals and took them to the edge of the known world against their will under indescribably disgusting conditions

Tribal leaders and kings in Africa sold their own people into slavery. Whites were not all to blame, at least not in the beginning.

[Useruser666]

You got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin’ at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin’ when the dealin’s done.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

actually desflood, that's not really true, the African tribes were usually forced to cooperate with the slave trade because tribes that didn't were wiped out by the slave trading of tribes that did. Many of the west African tribal conflicts that we see today actually originate in that time period. Also, African slavery was a diffrent ins ution than American slavery, it was indentured servitude, where slavery was not passed on to spouses nor children and a slave could work his/her way out of debt. Which BTW, is how most slaves became slaves in Africa pre- European slave trade, they were in debt to someone and forced to become slaves.

[desflood]

Very interesting...

[Clandestino]

Even after Europeans began importing black slaves to America, most trade was just that: "trade". In most instances, the Europeans did not need to use any force to get those slaves. The slaves were "sold" more or less legally by their (black) owners.

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/slavetra.html

[Cant_Be_Faded]

we're not focusing on blame clandestino

the fact remains that the blacks who were rounded up in africa and shipped to america had it worse than IRISH endentured servants

to say otherwise is tantamount to saying someone who is shot in the face is in no worse condition than someone shot in the foot

[Clandestino]

my point is that you have to stop making excuses at one time or another. many mexicans lived in segregation in the 1950s as well... but you don't see the same percentage of them in jail/prison..

[Guru of Nothing]

:
Originally Posted by The Ressurrected One

You're simply wrong. The barrios and colonias of the valley don't produce, in proportion, the same number of criminals as do the black ghettos.

I contend it is the result of soft bigotry that allowed blacks to take on "victim" status and become wards of the state -- thereby ensuring they perpetuate their dependence on government.







If more blacks would make the conscious decision to break the cycle of dependence, more blacks would leave the ghetto and make something of themselves. Unfortunately, their culture -- including music, family dynamics, and peer pressures -- don't exactly encourage improving their station in life.

It's sad really. But, frankly, I'm getting pretty sick of the black community blaming racism for 100% of their problems.

I'm so angry at what you just wrote I'm not going to respond.

Agree or disagree, what Yonivore said is, at the least, plausible. Not that I necessarily agree, but I don't find anything he said nearly so outlandish as defining our freedom by the liberties we grant to NAMBLA. Then again, I spend more time pondering fantasy football than I do social issues.

I do wish you would address the points Yonivore made. There are millions of Yonivores in the world, and most of them vote. If you, and those who share your views do not address his argument head-on and offer persuasive counters, then those millions will continue to cast votes counter to your's and you will remain an angry young Manny.


Personally, I still think you are mistaken in your steadfast desire to work this issue from the top down, because all it will get you is an argument; this is the sort of effort that drives rating wars on cable news channels.

Apparently this topic has special meaning to you, but what i perceive is just a setline in the waters hoping to hook some mea culpas, as though acknowledgement from whitey for past wrongs is prerequisite for fixing black plight (or whatever term is acceptable).

What if Whitey does not step up and say they are sorry? Then what?

Time to go study the results of the NFL draft.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yes but like your ancestors many mexicans were not subject to what blacks were subject to

you are right, excuses are bad, and i do want to see homicidal maniacs in prison away from society
but your reasoning of "we are all the same now --> we have the same opportunities and choices ----> stop making excuses and go to school" is flawed because it doesnt take into account the specific environments blacks grow up in.

im not saying its ok for blacks to kill people and be criminals because...etc etc

just saying that to ignore the past and pretend that its consequences are not still lingering and affecting many people the second they come into this world is not right.