Silver Lining as the Panic Siren Sounds

[024]

firesale time? everyone sucks but tim duncan.

[timvp]

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO ed up..

He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.

Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

It doesn't make sense not to. Again, they aren't winning anyway, so what the .

Well, if hypothetically the Spurs have no shot at the championship, then I would agree that they should play their younger players to build toward next season. But personally I think there is still championship hope this season so I won't agree with anything other than an all-in mentality.

[timvp]

The only thing that would be definitive would be the Spurs missing the playoffs.

Not really. That could have just been the 5%.

[Obstructed_View]

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs.

Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

If the Spurs make the playoffs doing what they're doing now, I'll give you credit, but I'd bet that the only way that happens is if some of the teams above them run into misfortune just short of a team plane crash.

The future the Spurs are playing for, as of this moment, is the 2010 postseason. They aren't going to do it limiting minutes with a shortened rotation of three and four guard lineups.

[Trimble87]

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

[ElNono]

It's hard to say this team is more athletic when your top athletes (on paper) barely get to the basket anymore... I'd say Hill is probably the guy that went to the rim more... RJ doesn't even dares attacking the rim... Blair I don't really consider a great athlete... he's more wingspan and hustle than anything else...

[ElNono]

Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

Now take a deep breath... read that line again...
...add that Pop was playing Nellie ball...

[timvp]

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

I like three-man bigmen rotations. 1999 and 2003 was Robinson, Duncan, Rose. 2005 was Duncan, Nazr, Horry. 2007 was basically Duncan, Oberto, Horry.

[HarlemHeat37]

He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.

According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..

It's significantly down from 2 years ago, but it's pretty much the exact same as last year..

The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

[Baseline]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

[HarlemHeat37]

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a le and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

[hsxvvd]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

My exact thoughts, Duncan's numbers are good, but he's not carrying the team down the stretch my any imagination.

He certainly isn't anchoring the defence either. (Albiet as he is expected to do it alone with 4 smurfs.)

[hsxvvd]

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a le and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

[024]

the answer isn't on the spurs. the players are soft. this is the 2009 spurs playoff team. spurs came off a first round exit by acquiring an even softer player. they have no one to blame but themselves. if there's no trade or shakeup by the deadline, this team isn't going anywhere. i have seen no signs of jefferson resembling anything remotely close to a defensive stopper, manu has way more crappy games than good ones, and parker has just teetered between average and above average. no way this team is winning anything.

[HarlemHeat37]

No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

[ElNono]

Eventually, it's the defense. The offense can put up points... we just can't stop anybody, and nobody seems to give a , which is what's aggravating...

[Obstructed_View]

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

When all it takes to score on the Spurs is to pick Timmy off at the three point line and then outrun everyone to the front of the rim, I'm not sure how much "taking over" is going to help. I guess we should be asking Roger Mason to have done a better job of blocking out Joakim Noah, too.

[Bruno]

Silver Lining?

So Pop plays the right guys and Spurs still lost and it's a silver lining?
I don't think how it can be something good. It just makes the cloud over Spurs' heads even deeper.

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.

[ElNono]

At least you can't blame this loss on Bogans...

[Trimble87]

Im getting pretty tired of this hindsight criticisxm of the Jefferson trade. You can talk about how bad he and Dice have been, but we were all giddy with excitement when this trade went down. The Spurs FO deserver a TON of credit for going out and trying to put us in the best position possible. It hasn't worked out very well, yet, but they certainly put the effort in.

As for all this "big trade" speculation... what exactly do you want the spurs to do? You think the rest of the NBA hasn't seen Jefferson suck this year? Who's going to take on his contract now. And really what else do we have to offer? Bonner Finley RMJ for *insert All Star Player here*? Give me a break.

[timvp]

According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..

By changing from being a volume shooter to fitting into a system, a rise in DrawF% should have come naturally. As we've seen, it hasn't.

The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

Yeah, the Spurs were hoping for him to revert back to previous levels. They said so even when the trade was made.

That hasn't happened, to say the least.

[Obstructed_View]

A coach that can't beat the Bulls a single time with this lineup isn't going to be able to win with more talent, even if they maximized the trade value on everyone they've currently got.

[timvp]

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

[Obstructed_View]

You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

The way I interpreted it is that the team has a lot of upside, but the whole team is not being played currently. As long as the people making the lineup decisions stays the same there's not any silver lining to be found.

[Bruno]

saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

No, it isn't a silver lining.
I'm not trying to find some positives into this debacle.