Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Nuggets - Jan. 31

[Obstructed_View]

True
didn't think of it like that

but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, the thing that sucks balls is that we know coaches rarely change their tendencies...and we're talkin about Gregg freakin Popavich here....he has his championships, I really don't think we'll ever see him try something new in regards to playing time and time outs.

I think Pop has bought into the hype about being "older than dirt" and that mentality has softened the edge that they used to have as a veteran team. It's one thing to joke about it, it's quite another to project that weakness to your opponent as well as your own team day after day after day.

[will_spurs]

Hill's a backup point guard who got a of a matchup and did pretty well with it. People weren't scoring because he was standing around. I'll take Billups shooting 7-15 in 45 minutes of floortime just about any day. He held his own, which is really all you can ask of him.

Check the Billups vs Parker shooting average posted above, now look at what Hill did yesterday and explain to me why Hill is ALWAYS described as playing vastly superior D compared to Parker.

On the other hand I agree with you re: minutes, especially if this year is supposed to go "burst or bust" from a management POV then why not apply the same approach to the players. Why are other teams playing their rookies 25+ minutes a night, but with the Spurs it's always (except Duncan, or Parker some eons ago) that a rookie can't play more than 10-15mpg, with quite a lot of it coming in garbage time?

Blair, Hill and RJ should get 35+ mpg and at least we'd know what they are truly worth. In the worst case it still wouldn't make such a big difference to the W-L ratio.

I also don't understand with letting some young players (like Blair or Mahinmi) foul out. Is it that after you foul out 3 times in your career you're banned for life? It sure feels like it when looking at the rotations.

[bless1187]

I thought R. Jefferson had a decent game, he was pretty average on D today "both good and bad plays" even though he didn't shoot the ball well today, but i like the way he attacked, it was one of his more aggressive game on offense today.

what really bothered me was that M. Bonner is again getting more playing time than D. Blair; let me tell you this D. Blair has earned his right to be the 1st big off the bench, there's no way any coach in his right mind would only give D. Blair 11 mpg.

i finally came to accept the fact that M. Ginobili has lost a few steps in his game; he's been healthy for quite a while now, and i really expect that this is the M. Ginobili that we are going to see for the rest of the year. When his jumper is falling, he will have his occasional 20-30 points game, but when its not these are the kind of game that we are going to be expecting. I would be 100% AMAZED to see the Suns stupid enough to traded A. Stoudemire for M. Ginobili.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well to be honest when I was watching the game I thought: "How the are they still in this game?"

To me the score looks worse than it actually was. They were down two with 2 1/2 minutes to go.

- they shot about 10% less from the field than Denver.
- Denver was 75% from downtown opposed to 17,6% from the Spurs
- Spurs get outrebounded

And they still had a chance to win this game. If Parker comes back, the shooters find their touch again and the defense improves in certain areas, I think the Spurs will be fine.

[Bruno]

Thanks for the thoughts, timvp.

[MaNu4Tres]

Well to be honest when I was watching the game I thought: "How the are they still in this game?"

To me the score looks worse than it actually was. They were down two with 2 1/2 minutes to go.

- they shot about 10% less from the field than Denver.
- Denver was 75% from downtown opposed to 17,6% from the Spurs
- Spurs get outrebounded

And they still had a chance to win this game. If Parker comes back, the shooters find their touch again and the defense improves in certain areas, I think the Spurs will be fine.

Denver turning the ball over 19 times had something to do with us still hanging on late in the 4th.

[Slippy]

Billups was no match for the Spurs guards.
Simply too good. The defense-less 2010 Parker would hardly have made a difference.

Maybe we can put it down to still learning but Billups made George Hill look stupid on D . He got away from Hill too easily. The sad part , it didn't take much for him to get away and it was usually the same way. Just a simple hand off, wait for Hill to back off and then run off him to his right. Hill was always playing catch-up. Not once did i see him adjust .

Jefferson putting the ball to the floor and attacking the rim is somthing we all want to see more often. Just don't be so tentative with it . Either put it in strong or dish it off. Don't just stop or change your mind half way in mid-air.


Manu's wayward shooting is a big concern, yet i saw a lot good things from him out there which to me suggest it's only a matter of time. It's obvious he's making more of a concerted effort on the drive since the first half of the season . What i liked , on most them is that he looked spry and the quick change of speed was there. The problem is his timing and balance is still quite off. With repe ion it's going to become more fluid and second nature to him. One positive from Manu attacking the rim is that he's getting to line more often. He 's also passing better than ever so im not sure why people keep downplaying that part of his game. If not for Manu's play-making and passin ability, the spurs wouldn't even be fighting out a close game.

[Obstructed_View]

what really bothered me was that M. Bonner is again getting more playing time than D. Blair; let me tell you this D. Blair has earned his right to be the 1st big off the bench, there's no way any coach in his right mind would only give D. Blair 11 mpg.

I'd agree with you, except Bonner was great. He had two blocks and three steals, and they were all from making smart aggressive plays. I'm not positive that anyone played better defense than Bonner did yesterday.

[ElNono]

I'd agree with you, except Bonner was great. He had two blocks and three steals, and they were all from making smart aggressive plays. I'm not positive that anyone played better defense than Bonner did yesterday.

Funny, I thought he gave up just as much as he produced. I'll have to go and watch the game again. I do recall KMart was going at him every time Pop put him in there.

[Obstructed_View]

Funny, I thought he gave up just as much as he produced. I'll have to go and watch the game again. I do recall KMart was going at him every time Pop put him in there.

I'll go back and watch again too, just to make sure. At first I thought there was something wrong with Bonner's defense that Martin was scoring, but when Bonner wasn't covering him, Martin was either wide open or under the basket with the defender behind him. I'd be surprised if anyone's plus minus was higher than Bonner's, even though he wasn't scoring.

[ElNono]

I'll go back and watch again too, just to make sure. At first I thought there was something wrong with Bonner's defense that Martin was scoring, but when Bonner wasn't covering him, Martin was either wide open or under the basket with the defender behind him. I'd be surprised if anyone's plus minus was higher than Bonner's, even though he wasn't scoring.

Ginobili and Bonner both ended up with a team high +8
Finley was the only other Spur with a positive plus/minus: +3

Then again, plus/minus is pretty irrelevant IMO, even more so in a single game. I'll probably re-watch the game tonight...

[Obstructed_View]

Ginobili and Bonner both ended up with a team high +8
Finley was the only other Spur with a positive plus/minus: +3

Then again, plus/minus is pretty irrelevant IMO, even more so in a single game. I'll probably re-watch the game tonight...

For the most part, I agree, but I really thought Bonner did all he could with his time, and when a guy can stay on the plus side without scoring, that's a good sign. The only real gripe I have about Bonner's defense is that he's always got a hand up on guys but never actually blocks shots. Two blocks is like a career day.

And I was pretty pleased with Fin's minutes. That poke-away steal he had was really nice. It's an indication of how bad Jefferson's defense is that Spurs fans like how much better Finley stays with his man.

[temujin]

Ginobili and Bonner both ended up with a team high +8
Finley was the only other Spur with a positive plus/minus: +3

Then again, plus/minus is pretty irrelevant IMO, even more so in a single game. I'll probably re-watch the game tonight...

If you do, could you please mark down the points the Spurs scored WITHOUT Mr. Ginobili getting a touch at the ball?
Even papa McDyess could score with his passes last night.
Thanks.

[temujin]

There are people here that just discovered that Billups,
one of the best point guards ever to play the game,
is still better than 2nd year George Hill.

And no, George Hill is not making 14 millions.

[wildbill2u]

I'm worried about Manu's step back 3 that has always been so devastating. It seems to be gone and bad conditioning or being slower on drives should't affect that.

I wonder if anyone has given him a vision test. You do have vision changes as you get older and for the most part they are so gradual that you don't realize it for a long time.

[rascal]

[QUOTE=MemphisSpursFan;4043963]The boys seem to do poorly on nationally televised games.[/QUOTE

Thats because nationally televised games are against the top teams and the spurs overall have not done well against the top teams.

[Phenomanul]

Did anyone really expect the Spurs to win an afternoon game...?

They're not even awake...

[rascal]

There are people here that just discovered that Billups,
one of the best point guards ever to play the game,
is still better than 2nd year George Hill.

And no, George Hill is not making 14 millions.

Agree, Billups is one of the top guards in the NBA and is playing on top of his game since he got back from injury.

Hill is not even a natural true pg but an undersized sg trying to play the point.

[Sobe_Kucks]

Maybe we can put it down to still learning but Billups made George Hill look stupid on D . He got away from Hill too easily. The sad part , it didn't take much for him to get away and it was usually the same way. Just a simple hand off, wait for Hill to back off and then run off him to his right. Hill was always playing catch-up. Not once did i see him adjust .

Billups does that to most pgs in the league. He may not get much run nationally, but he's "kinda good" (sarcasm). No surprise the Nuggets made great strides once he showed up in Denver. He most likely would have done the same to Parker one on one.

[Ginobilly]

He most likely would have done the same to Parker one on one.

Exactly, the way Parker been playing this year with plantar f., it wouldn't of made any difference. The real question is, would the Spurs be better if you switched parker with Billups?

[will_spurs]

There are people here that just discovered that Billups,
one of the best point guards ever to play the game,
is still better than 2nd year George Hill.

And no, George Hill is not making 14 millions.

Some people on this board are saying that Hill is already at the same level or even better than Parker... it can't go both ways. So Hill is better than Parker only when guarding bad players?

People Parker wouldn't have made a difference when timvp posted the stats of Parker vs Billups that show Parker would actually have had a great chance of being better.

[trypldubl]

Yea, until it's the fourth quarter when he misses wide open shots and turns the ball over. Parker or not Billups would have done the same thing.

[quentin_compson]

What makes this season so frustrating is that every time you think our team has taken an important step in the right direction (as has been the case numerous times, the last example being the wins over the Hawks and the Grizz), they immediately stumble two steps back.

I think that we'll probably have to live with Manu not being able to score as efficiently as he used to do.
But as long as he has the kind of impact he has been having lately, I don't think it's that big a problem. RJ is doing fine enough on that front, in my opinion.

[Slippy]

Billups does that to most pgs in the league. He may not get much run nationally, but he's "kinda good" (sarcasm). No surprise the Nuggets made great strides once he showed up in Denver. He most likely would have done the same to Parker one on one.

That's pretty well known about Billups. Doesn't mean Hill couldn't of played smarter on D. I've seen Hill play catch-up on D a lot this season. When it's against the likes Billups it hurts his team more.

To say Parker wouldn't have done better is just not true. Parker does a better job of staying alert, where as Hill would drop his guard down. He also very good in staying in front of his man and fighting around screens than hill appeared to be last night. The funny thing is i've seen Pop chew out Tony from his younger days for the mistakes i saw Hill making last night. Hill should get the same. It's all part of that learning curve.