Does Tony Parker Hurt these Spurs? Inside the Numbers

[whottt]

The question really isn't whether Hill is better than Parker, but if in the current economic environment it makes sense to entertain the idea of using Parker as a trade chip. Memphis offered Mayo and Thabeet to Golden State for Monta Ellis before the trade deadline this year... if they made the same type of offer to the Spurs in July for Parker, would it make sense for the Spurs to do it? Both players are young and locked up for a couple of years-- Parker, facing the prospect of a Duncan-less future might strongly consider going elsewhere.

So what you're saying is if we had David Robinson and got Tim Duncan we should have traded David Robinson

[EricB]

The question really isn't whether Hill is better than Parker, but if in the current economic environment it makes sense to entertain the idea of using Parker as a trade chip. Memphis offered Mayo and Thabeet to Golden State for Monta Ellis before the trade deadline this year... if they made the same type of offer to the Spurs in July for Parker, would it make sense for the Spurs to do it? Both players are young and locked up for a couple of years-- Parker, facing the prospect of a Duncan-less future might strongly consider going elsewhere.

If your gonna trade Parker its gotta be for an all star bigman.

You can't settle for a Thabeet Mayo trade.

[MannyIsGod]

Tony Parker is the 3rd best point guard in this league. He may be 3.b or 3.a with Rondo and he may be behind Chris Paul and Derron Williams but if you sleep on a hurt Tony Parker the way people slept on a hurt Dwayne Wade you're in for a surprise. Tony Parker like Tim and Manu should be Spurs for life.

[whottt]

It is a total myth that we can win a le with George Hill as PG. It is a total fantasy at this point, it's not a myth win Tony Parker. If you are going to trade one of them then the one you trade is George Hill, and not the HOF PG.

[DesignatedT]

I dont think the Spurs are better with Parker sitting out, Im obviously not too fond of Parker but even I know thats a pretty ridiculous opinion to have. My whole argument is that Parker should be expendable in the offseason...that Hill is ready to take the reins, and that the frontcourt help we'd get in exchange for Tony would outweight the drop off at PG.

And we could also go all night with reasons why the team wasnt performing as well early in the season. But regardless of lack of urgency and all that the fact remains that the Spurs have played their best ball by a mile with Hill at PG and with Manu orchestrating the offense. The Spurs can live without Parker, he is expendable which is basically my argument. You guys are simply loyal to Parker, which like I said I understand, but once you get past that youd realize that Hill's emergence has made Parker expendable to fill bigger needs.

This team isn't better without Tony. If we get booted in the first round again then obviously everyone should be open to listening to deals. If this team ends up being efffective with Hill,Manu,Tony backcourt and we end up making the WCF or Finals then why would we entertain trade talks? Why would you want to get rid of the best backcourt in the NBA.

[EricB]

Tony Parker is the 3rd best point guard in this league. He may be 3.b or 3.a with Rondo and he may be behind Chris Paul and Derron Williams but if you sleep on a hurt Tony Parker the way people slept on a hurt Dwayne Wade you're in for a surprise. Tony Parker like Tim and Manu should be Spurs for life.

Parker scored 8, but could've easily gotten 16 with how easy he got to the rim and the open shots he created...

[roycrikside]

He practically carried them in the 07 finals.

Duncan was good but not GREAT Ginobili was OK until Game 4 4th quarter.

Everyone pretty much laid eggs from Finley to Barry to everyone but Parker carried them and was huge.


Unreal how 3 years later thats totally forgotten...

Yes, yes. He dominated the immortal Boobie Gibson. He also was +24 for that series while Manu was +48, but whatever. I never understood the argument why Duncan got Finals MVP in '05 just because he was the team's best player, even if he didn't have the best stats, but everyone just smiled and nodded when Tony got it in '07. How does that make sense?

Also, if you remember the '07 playoffs at all (which you clearly don't), every critical road game the team won, they won because of Manu (Games 3 and 4 at Denver, game 5 at Phoenix, game 4 at Utah). But yeah, let's focus on the sweep at the end against a completely mismatched Cavs team.

[Mr Bones]

So what you're saying is if we had David Robinson and got Tim Duncan we should have traded David Robinson

Nope, not what I'm saying at all. Duncan/Robinson formed the strongest frontcourt in the NBA-- Parker/Hill do not form the strongest backcourt in the NBA. Moving Hill to the 2 guard takes away his defensive advantage over point guards... it's a way to deal with a problem, but not a perfect solution. I'm not a Parker hater at all, by the way-- I like him a lot. Just saying, with the Spurs all in financially, trading Parker could be a way to address shortcomings with the team without taking a big step backwards anywhere else. If the Spurs were to acquire Mayo & Thabeet and sign Splitter this summer, their most glaring weakness-- interior defense & shot blocking-- would become one of their strengths.

[lennyalderette]

If your gonna trade Parker its gotta be for an all star bigman.

You can't settle for a Thabeet Mayo trade.

exactly you better believe they can find a diamond with a trade chip like T.p soot i'd even say to minnesota who had like three pg's and now only have one haha hey give me AL jefferson and ricky rubio rights and ill give you T.p!! rubio would love to play with a manu,duncan,tiago,jefferson AL and rj. some others: aldridge (por) Cousins (top pick) horford, id even say aldridge and fernandez for t.p

[DesignatedT]

Yes, yes. He dominated the immortal Boobie Gibson. He also was +24 for that series while Manu was +48, but whatever. I never understood the argument why Duncan got Finals MVP in '05 just because he was the team's best player, even if he didn't have the best stats, but everyone just smiled and nodded when Tony got it in '07. How does that make sense?

Also, if you remember the '07 playoffs at all (which you clearly don't), every critical road game the team won, they won because of Manu (Games 3 and 4 at Denver, game 5 at Phoenix, game 4 at Utah). But yeah, let's focus on the sweep at the end against a completely mismatched Cavs team.

its the "finals mvp" not the "playoff mvp"....so yeah im pretty sure there going to focus on the finals.

[FkLA]

This team isn't better without Tony. If we get booted in the first round again then obviously everyone should be open to listening to deals. If this team ends up being efffective with Hill,Manu,Tony backcourt and we end up making the WCF or Finals then why would we entertain trade talks? Why would you want to get rid of the best backcourt in the NBA.

Unless the Spurs win it all, trading Parker for frontcourt help makes sense. Sure it'd be nice to have the best backcourt in the NBA but not when Timmy is holding down the paint on his own (we dont know what to expect with Tiago or if he'll even be here next season). You need to sacrifice some of that backcourt talent to help Timmy out, Parker is younger than Manu and more talented than Hill...he's the only one that will net us an all-star caliber big man.

Nope, not what I'm saying at all. Duncan/Robinson formed the strongest frontcourt in the NBA-- Parker/Hill do not form the strongest backcourt in the NBA. Moving Hill to the 2 guard takes away his defensive advantage over point guards... it's a way to deal with a problem, but not a perfect solution. I'm not a Parker hater at all, by the way-- I like him a lot. Just saying, with the Spurs all in financially, trading Parker could be a way to address shortcomings with the team without taking a big step backwards anywhere else. If the Spurs were to acquire Mayo & Thabeet and sign Splitter this summer, their most glaring weakness-- interior defense & shot blocking-- would become one of their strengths.

For alot of these peeps it really is about loyalty, which is understandable. But its the smart move though it really is.

[roycrikside]

its the "finals mvp" not the "playoff mvp"....so yeah im pretty sure there going to focus on the finals.

My point is it's pretty dumb to make an argument about how good a player is just because he won a finals MVP in a series that was a formality and where he had the biggest mismatch on the floor.

Once we beat the Suns in the second round, everyone here was 90% sure we'd win that ring. Once the Pistons lost to Cleveland, everyone was 100% sure.

There's this famous picture of Tim, Manu and Tony laughing it up on the bench during the end of Game 5 of the WCF against Utah from that year. You could see it in their eyes. They knew.

[whottt]

Nope, not what I'm saying at all. Duncan/Robinson formed the strongest frontcourt in the NBA-- Parker/Hill do not form the strongest backcourt in the NBA. Moving Hill to the 2 guard takes away his defensive advantage over point guards... it's a way to deal with a problem, but not a perfect solution. I'm not a Parker hater at all, by the way-- I like him a lot. Just saying, with the Spurs all in financially, trading Parker could be a way to address shortcomings with the team without taking a big step backwards anywhere else. If the Spurs were to acquire Mayo & Thabeet and sign Splitter this summer, their most glaring weakness-- interior defense & shot blocking-- would become one of their strengths.

If Tony Parker and George Hill don't play well together it's because George Hill is not good enough, not Tony Parker. George Hill is the guy that couldn't get off the bench last year, Tony Parker is the guy that has been off it since the 4th game of his career.

I see no problem with having two great guards, you damn sure aren't going to get a player as good as Parker is in return for him, it's just going to take George some time. And I also don't see any problems with defense either because Tony actually does a good job defending shooting guards. He's better at that than he is at a defending PG's...and guys like Kobe are the PG's for their team, so Hill is a natural to play guys like that.

[dav4463]

Parker, Hill, and Ginobili is a guard rotation that nobody in the league wants to play against in the playoffs.

[Mr Bones]

If Tony Parker and George Hill don't play well together it's because George Hill is not good enough, not Tony Parker. George Hill is the guy that couldn't get off the bench last year, Tony Parker is the guy that has been off it since the 4th game of his career.

I see no problem with having two great guards, it's just going to take George some time. And I also don't see any problems with defense either because Tony actually does a good job defending shooting guards. He's actually better at that than he is at a defending PG's...and guys like Kobe are the PG's for their team, so Hill is a natural to play guys like htat.

I generally agree with what you are saying. I guess my point has more to do with salary cap/financial issues. The Spurs went all in financially before this season (a move I applauded) and now have very little flexibility with which to make moves this upcoming summer. Like you, I don't see a problem with defense when Hill and Parker are together-- but the problem with helping Duncan on the inside seems at least somewhat glaring, and that's why I think the idea of a defensive big + a good guard in exchange for Parker would have to at least be looked at seriously by the Spurs if it came up. Mayo/Thabeet was the first one I thought of since those guys were already offered as a pair for a very good point guard. Another option that comes to mind is Dalembert/Jrue Holiday, both very good defenders.

[EricB]

I generally agree with what you are saying. I guess my point has more to do with salary cap/financial issues. The Spurs went all in financially before this season (a move I applauded) and now have very little flexibility with which to make moves this upcoming summer. Like you, I don't see a problem with defense when Hill and Parker are together-- but the problem with helping Duncan on the inside seems at least somewhat glaring, and that's why I think the idea of a defensive big + a good guard in exchange for Parker would have to at least be looked at seriously by the Spurs if it came up. Mayo/Thabeet was the first one I thought of since those guys were already offered as a pair for a very good point guard. Another option that comes to mind is Dalembert/Jrue Holiday, both very good defenders.

Dalembert

tremendous fail

[kaji157]

This stats means nothing because those are two different teams. It would be very dissapointing if a "injuried" HOF PG would put the same stats as a 2nd year player.
If the reason of why Tony Parker looks expendable is that Manu and the team in general is playing better, then this will be proved in the playoffs, if not, Parker is as expendable as this stats suggest and will be up to Pop to decide what to do.

[kaji157]

I generally agree with what you are saying. I guess my point has more to do with salary cap/financial issues. The Spurs went all in financially before this season (a move I applauded) and now have very little flexibility with which to make moves this upcoming summer. Like you, I don't see a problem with defense when Hill and Parker are together-- but the problem with helping Duncan on the inside seems at least somewhat glaring, and that's why I think the idea of a defensive big + a good guard in exchange for Parker would have to at least be looked at seriously by the Spurs if it came up. Mayo/Thabeet was the first one I thought of since those guys were already offered as a pair for a very good point guard. Another option that comes to mind is Dalembert/Jrue Holiday, both very good defenders.

I prefer Mayo-Thabeet mainly because that way the Spurs would have building blocks by the time TD and Manu are gone.

[Mr Bones]

Dalembert

tremendous fail

Dalembert rotating with Splitter next to Duncan would be one of the best interior defenses in the NBA.

[timvpimp]

more often than not Tony plays off the lento rhythm of the team's offense but I don't see it a sign Tony hurts the team. even without functioning like a traditional pass-first PG, Tony can still bring a lot of positiveness with the unorthodox style he has. IMHO Tony should be used alongside Manu, who will take more responsibilities of running the offense with Tony pushing more attacks himself.

[DesignatedT]

Dalembert rotating with Splitter next to Duncan would be one of the best interior defenses in the NBA.

dalembert sucks.

[timvpimp]

Dalembert rotating with Splitter next to Duncan would be one of the best interior defenses in the NBA.

agreed. The only problem is Dalembert's contract which is too profligate. If dude is waived sometime in future I would like to see him in Spurs jersey with 3-4 million annual salary.

[lennyalderette]

agreed. The only problem is Dalembert's contract which is too profligate. If dude is waived sometime in future I would like to see him in Spurs jersey with 3-4 million annual salary.

only to be traded to charlotte before the playoffs

[timvpimp]

dalembert sucks.

Yup he sucks identically as bad as Duncan does at the end of defense. We've got Mr Bonner who's so damn great a specialist that easily kills the opposing team with his superb skills in offense, hence there's zero need to give a flying about our defense which used to be great in our champion years but has been ed to death since then.

[EricB]

Dalembert rotating with Splitter next to Duncan would be one of the best interior defenses in the NBA.

Dalembert's bball IQ is so low it makes Nazr Mohammed look like Robert Horry.