Reply With Quote
But whatever, if you just want a bunch of people talking about how good the Spurs are, go check out spursreport. You'll like it there.
The subject is Brent Barry. Add your input.
Newbie? I've been watching games since '86. I've paid for my own season tickets since '98.
Stick to the pom-poms.
But whatever, if you just want a bunch of people talking about how good the Spurs are, go check out spursreport. You'll like it there.
The subject is Brent Barry. Add your input.
One of the most insightful comments I have read in a while.
Don't give me so much credit. I watched the Spurs since the 80's, but I wasn't a fan until 2000 or so.Kori, you joined up in 97 when the Spurs were a top team
I can't really say Brent sucks. because he isn't. There's just a LACK of attempts to shoot more. As if he's more concerned of his FG/3pt % stats than on how many points he has made in a game.
And that's totally disappointing.
But i look forward to his contribution in the next series. We need him to make MORE attempts vs. his old team, the Sonics. That's it, his perimeter shooting. He has to. If he continues to play like he was in the 1st rnd. he might regret it if he'll fail to make the Spurs in the next yr or so. You see everybody is tradeable in this team, anybody not named Tim Duncan.
From what I recall, Brent said that he was trying to "Steve Kerr" his way to a championship. Hey, I don't have a problem with that. Kerr really didn't make a significant contribution until game 6 against the Mavs in '03.
Brent has come full circle, with signing with Spurs and playing the Sonics in the West Semis. His basketball legacy will more than likely be made in this series. We will see how he does.
I know I am rooting for him.
Bruce bowen took more shots than Brent in the last game against denver. He plays scared. He's underperforming in the playoffs just as he did in the regular season. He looks uncomfortable out there. He thinks too much. He defers too much. He needs to shoot or drive... and when he drives to the basket (this is his worst deferring habit) he needs to shoot when five feet from the basket instead of passing the ball in mid-air to someone else. I'm losing faith in him. I think he might come up big a couple of times in the future, but it appears he'll never perform consistently well as a spur. Was Barry fool's gold?... and if so, who would be better to fill that position?.. and if not, when will he become real gold? Brent Barry was rightfully predicted to be a crucial part of this team, but instead he's become an occasional hero. He's playing like a wuss. I mean,wouldn't you rather him shoot five for fifteen than one for four? That's weak.
TimVP....as I was breaking down the PBP to prove we are better offensive team with Barry on the court for the 4.3 billionth time this season...it just struck me...you know what...all kidding aside...I'm tired of this argument. Just hate the dude...gutless, heartless, choking pussy etc, he's Hedo, Smitty and all the guy Spurfans love to hate rolled into one...Go Devin, go Beno. What is there really to argue about?
It's really not a big deal anyway...the way I look at it, Beno makes Brent Barry tradeable...
Like I said all season long....It took the mighty offensive IQ of Pop and Spursfans to figure out that Brent Barry is a guy that just wants to camp out at the 3 line and make chicken passes...he's the stupidest offensive player in history...he doesn't know how to pass, he doesn't know how to shoot, he doesn't know anything about offense...and he nutrode an aging Garry Payton to his awesome numbers. We figured it out. Guy has Boykins on him...and he's afraid to take it to the hole on Boykins...it's just the kind of guy he is....like he proved all those games he choked under pressure in this season when Duncan was out. Like all those pussy passes he makes that beat the defender and guys score on...gutless choking pussy.
He doesn't want to do anything except stand out there at the 3 line and camp out...You can just see how much he loves doing that...it's what he's done his whole career. We figured it out...
Happy now?
But I will point out why the Spurs were stupid to sign this guy though...Because if that's all we wanted was a guy to shoot threes, there were cheaper alternative out there.
What we did was take a very talented guard and offensive player and tried to turn him into a role playing shooter.
If all we wanted was a guy to stand out at the 3 lint to shoot threes...then signing Barry was ing stupid...
But that wasn't what the Spurs intended to do...we didn't know what our back up PG situation was going to be when we signed Barry...We didn't how good Beno was going to be...
I think the Spurs and Brent both planned on him backing up both guard spots...but Beno emerged and Pop started thinking about better ways to use that money he's paying Brent Barry...Barry is getting the Malik Rose treatment...and he has been since about December...and the only reason Barry had as big of a role this season as he has had is because of injuries and Pop having no alternative.
And the reason I defend this guy is because he's not Hedo...he's been much better than Hedo...under much more difficult cir stances...on top of that he wanted a ring...not a contract...big differences.
And the unjustified negativity and bile from hateful Spurs fans actually make me cringe when the guy comes into the game...I want to see Devin and Beno out there instead...yes we'll choke more with Devin...but at least everyone will STFU about it because he's the hometown boy and his dunks look good. I hope it happens...it'll be a change of pace.
Last edited by whottt; 05-06-2005 at 06:44 AM.
Oh, in 86? I hardly think being a 7 yr old kid watching sports is the same as an adult. As if you lost any sleep when LA swept our asses then.
If you think all I do is wave poms poms in here, then you never read my takes, obviously.
Are you sure that's what happened? Are you sure it wasn't that there is no proof that the Spurs are a better offensive team with Barry on the court?
Don't wuss out now. You've said all season and now into the playoffs that the Spurs are much better and "choke proof" with Barry in the game. You said you had stats to back up your statements. You said you could prove it to us. I believed you.
If you can come up with stats that show how the Spurs are better with him on the court even if he isn't scoring or playing good defense, I'd love to see it. Perhaps it could change some opinions in here.
I'm not trying to argue. I thought you had something and were holding back on us.Just hate the dude...gutless, heartless, choking pussy etc, he's Hedo, Smitty and all the guy Spurfans love to hate rolled into one...Go Devin, go Beno. What is there really to argue about?
I guess you were just bluffing the whole time.
Barry's a shooting guard, Beno's a point guard. Doesn't make too much sense. Barry doesn't play defense well enough to be a PG in the league anymore. That was obvious last season.It's really not a big deal anyway...the way I look at it, Beno makes Brent Barry tradeable...
The Spurs signed him to be a SG.
Like I said all season long....It took the mighty offensive IQ of Pop and Spursfans to figure out that Brent Barry is a guy that just wants to camp out at the 3 line and make chicken passes...he's the stupidest offensive player in history...he doesn't know how to pass, he doesn't know how to shoot, he doesn't know anything about offense...and he nutrode an aging Garry Payton to his awesome numbers. We figured it out. Guy has Boykins on him...and he's afraid to take it to the hole on Boykins...it's just the kind of guy he is....like he proved all those games he choked under pressure in this season when Duncan was out. Like all those pussy passes he makes that beat the defender and guys score on...gutless choking pussy.
He doesn't want to do anything except stand out there at the 3 line and camp out...You can just see how much he loves doing that...it's what he's done his whole career. We figured it out...
Happy now?
Need a tissue? Why do you take it so personally? We want to believe. You told us you had the answers.
Show and prove.
Pop has given him the freedom to be whatever Barry wants to be. He even runs plays for him. He has a green light 100% of the time. I've never seen Pop get mad at him for taking a shot.But I will point out why the Spurs were stupid to sign this guy though...Because if that's all we wanted was a guy to shoot threes, there were cheaper alternative out there.
What we did was take a very talented guard and offensive player and tried to turn him into a role playing shooter.
What has Pop done to turn him into a role playing shooter? Are you sure Barry hasn't done it to himself.
The Spurs were confident that Beno could play backup minutes right after they drafted him and worked him out. They didn't sign Barry to be the backup PG.If all we wanted was a guy to stand out at the 3 lint to shoot threes...then signing Barry was ing stupid...
But that wasn't what the Spurs intended to do...we didn't know what our back up PG situation was going to be when we signed Barry...We didn't how good Beno was going to be...
I think the Spurs and Brent both planned on him backing up both guard spots...but Beno emerged and Pop started thinking about better ways to use that money he's paying Brent Barry
They thought that he could be an emergency PG, but no more than that.
Malik Rose treatment? How many DNP's did he get?Barry is getting the Malik Rose treatment...and he has been since about December...and the only reason Barry had as big of a role this season as he has had is because of injuries and Pop having no alternative.
Just because Pop took him out of games months ago for ineffective plays, that shouldn't effect him now.
What stats are out there to prove he's been better than Hedo. Pretty much everything you look at shows that Hedo was the better player to this point.And the reason I defend this guy is because he's not Hedo...he's been much better than Hedo...under much more difficult cir stances
And how is he under more difficult cir stances? I want to hear your side of the story.
So you cringe at the start of games? Interesting.And the unjustified negativity and bile from hateful Spurs fans actually make me cringe when the guy comes into the game
Spurs fans love him. He's never booed at the SBC. Fans in here are just waiting to do something and then everyone will worship him. Show us that he's already doing something. Show us the stats.
Make us believe.
You are slowly turning into a Brent Barry fan rather than a Spurs fan. You can bash Devin and Beno, but their stats this year are comparable to Barry's -- if not better. They have arguably played tougher roles. They put out more effort. They both play better defense. They both let it fly offensively.I want to see Devin and Beno out there instead...yes we'll choke more with Devin...but at least everyone will STFU about it because he's the hometown boy and his dunks look good. I hope it happens...it'll be a change of pace.
But lets see it. Show us how Barry rules without shooting or defending. Show us what you got.
You've talked the talk long enough. Now you have a thread dedicated to it. It's time for you to walk the walk.
From: The Numbers Speak for themselves
Are you sure that's what happened? Are you sure it wasn't that there is no proof that the Spurs are a better offensive team with Barry on the court?
Don't wuss out now. You've said all season and now into the playoffs that the Spurs are much better and "choke proof" with Barry in the game. You said you had stats to back up your statements. You said you could prove it to us. I believed you.
If you can come up with stats that show how the Spurs are better with him on the court even if he isn't scoring or playing good defense, I'd love to see it. Perhaps it could change some opinions in here.
I'm not trying to argue. I thought you had something and were holding back on us.
I guess you were just bluffing the whole time.
From: Spurs Player Pairs
People who lack confidence don't play their best stretch of the season after Duncan goes out.
Last night was a case of Barry being called out and focused on and responding to the challenge...it wasn't an act of brilliance as we'll find out in Denver when Parker and the Spurs once again forget about Barry.
The above is me correctly predicting why the move to start wouldn't work. It's also me explaining why Barry plays the way he does...and if you read the article you'll see Barry explaining why he doesn't drive...it's the Spurs offense.
Whottt correctly predicting when and why Barry would step up, while TimVP doubted
Yeah...I'm reminded of how much sticking to the facts paid off
I can find more...I can also find it in thr playoffs...all you gotta do is look at the playoff +/- figures....they are a small sample size...but it's pretty much the same as in the regular season...
All you really got to do is go look at what's happened in games where Barry hasn't played in the 4th quarter...
And I think the defense thing is beginning to get laughable...we had some of our best defensive performances of the season with Barry playing 30 minutes and no Tim Duncan.
We also had some of our clutchest games of the season.
I am not taking it personally it's just an unwinnable argument...I've posted fact after fact and you guys reply with..."heartless".
I'll can also show you why Hedo was over-rated and why your FG% stats are basically meaningless if you take out his best game...but why not try taking out Tony, Manu and Tim's best games and see what you get....and try and see how many times they have started a game 1-4, when all they are doing is taking threes essentially....then look at how many times Barry entered a 4th quarter with a 1-4 and ended up with a 4-7 or something to that effect.
I too, am growing very tired of the Brent Barry bashing/discussion. What is the point of this? The guy is trying his best ( I doubt if anyone disputes that ) seems to be a great teammate, and the team is winning. Why the constant discussion? Why an official expose? Why tear down a player now? Would you have him sit on the bench and NOT play? On a team with three legit go to players and maybe a fourth with Horry and now another shooter with Big Dog, just exactly what do you want him to do? He is not a wuss and not scared. I have yet to see him shy away from contact. That beak of his gets hit all the time. He is trying to do what he thinks is best for this team. He is an excellent ball handler and deft passer. Sure you can pick out some bad plays....name a player who hasn't made their share. For cryin out loud, why not leave the guy alone? Being critical is one thing, but many of you make it personal, like he is deliberately missing shots or not playing defense to your expectations. Get off it already!
Barry is a low possession usage kind of guy. He has been that way his entire career.
It's not hard to see why he might not take a lot of shots considering the Spurs slow paced, defensive style where Tim Duncan dominates the ball on offense.
Ultimately he is going to be judged on his open shot making ability for this team. This is what the team needs from him. They do not need his passing as much as they need him to be a threat to take and make shots when open. And technically he should get more open looks with Duncan on the floor (along with Parker and Ginobili).
If he can make shots, he is doing his job. If he misses shots, is reluctant to shoot, then that defeats the purpose of why he is on the floor.
those that do not like "the bashing barry thread" you coudl tell by the le that soem would bash barry
why open it?
"Jon Barry scored 12 of his 14 points in the fourth quarter"
And, he played like in game 4 and 5 and helped the Rockets lose. Your point?
Actually, it seems like Barry has been driving to the basket for many (if not most) of his shots (misses) rather than taking the three.
Speaking of a player not taking open jumpers, has anyone noticed Bowen doesns't have the stones to shoot the three again this year. Last year, he choked in the playoffs and they just left him alone out in his 'favorite' spot because they knew he wouldn't take the shot.
For me, Barry can start the game, but he can´t start the 3rd period, because is very dangerous Seattle and can Score 10 points before Manu will enter the game
The 3rd is the begging of the end, and we must to start with our best team
The last season with Lakers , that thing happened, when manu entered the game the Lakers were ahead by ten
What is the point of inviting trashing of individual players in the middle of the playoffs?
Just a slow day waiting for the Sonics series?
I really hate this "piss on a Spur du jour" or "Spur vs Spur" threads, but especially in the playoffs when we all have more important things to think about than whipping the Spurs.
=======================
Robert said that Pop told him to "let it fly". I wonder if Pop said the same thing to Brent? Maybe Pop has told Brent to make plays, keep the ball moving, and swinging it around on offense, keep the offense up-tempo, push the ball up the court.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/d...topic=0&stat=9
... shows Brent to be the 3rd best Spur in 3G %age, behind Manu and Robert, but essentially tied with Nostalgic Golden Idol SJax.
Like everybody else, I wish Brent was contributing more, having his career playoffs, but he's not really hurting, either.
Well, I was simply pointing out that his brother had a good game. I wish our Berry could put in a game like that more often. Even just hit a few more shots here and there. I don't think he's lived up to expectations so far this year. Do you?
For a bunch of reasons, valid or not depending on your point of view, no, he has not been what I expected. Who's to blame for that? Again, we have all read a million thoughts on that. But, yes I am disappointed.
At the beginning of the season, I could not wait to see Brent Barry run with this team. I thought he was an excellent fit because of his unselfishness and ability to run the fastbreak and knock down the three point shot. While he has showed flashes of potential, overall he has been a big dissappointment. The word I would use to describe him is PASSIVE. In fact, he couldn't possibly be any more passive. a non-factor in his minutes on the floor. He rarely shows any offensive aggressiveness, often just moving the ball around the perimeter, never making anything happen. I don't think this is what the front office had in mind when they signed him. You never see this guy have a 10 for 15 night or a 3 for 16 night for that matter, because he just never takes matters into his own hands-ever. Heart, courage, balls-not words I would use to describe Brent Barry. This is not a talent issue, but more so an approach to the game and mental toughness issue. I am tired of his unselfishness. Show us something dude-learn something from your brother.
I agree with BigVee's comments that Barry is trying his best and doing an adequate job. I also think the media inadvertently raised Spurs fans' expectations a little high by concentrating on Barry's 40% career 3 point average. I looked at his stats and he has averaged 10.3 points per game in his career.That should be an indication that he is not a bomber. In 18 playoff games, 12 of which he has started, he has averaged 8.2 points per game. I think we expect too much of him. If some of you feel that he overpaid, that is a separate issue.
At the beginning of the season, I could not wait to see Brent Barry run with this team. I thought he was an excellent fit because of his unselfishness and ability to run the fastbreak and knock down the three point shot. While he has showed flashes of potential, overall he has been a big dissappointment. The word I would use to describe him is PASSIVE. In fact, he couldn't possibly be any more passive. a non-factor in his minutes on the floor. He rarely shows any offensive aggressiveness, often just moving the ball around the perimeter, never making anything happen. I don't think this is what the front office had in mind when they signed him. You never see this guy have a 10 for 15 night or a 3 for 16 night for that matter, because he just never takes matters into his own hands-ever. Heart, courage, balls-not words I would use to describe Brent Barry. This is not a talent issue, but more so an approach to the game and mental toughness issue. I am tired of his unselfishness. Show us something dude-learn something from your brother.
::Stands and applaudes::
Fantastic post Ram
Fantastic post. my sentimates EXACTLY.
What do regular season stats have to do with Barry's play in the playoffs? You said you had proof that the Spurs play better with him on the floor. You said he makes the Spurs "choke proof".
Where is the proof? You must have lied.
Oh and regular season stats are overrated. Hedo had like the best +/- in the league last season and was even named MVP by some statistical breakdown. Remember?
I'm still waiting on you showing how Barry is different.
It worked for game two, didn't it? Too bad the Nuggets reacted.People who lack confidence don't play their best stretch of the season after Duncan goes out.
Last night was a case of Barry being called out and focused on and responding to the challenge...it wasn't an act of brilliance as we'll find out in Denver when Parker and the Spurs once again forget about Barry.
The above is me correctly predicting why the move to start wouldn't work.
He's driving this year just as much as he ever did. What does that have to do with anything?It's also me explaining why Barry plays the way he does...and if you read the article you'll see Barry explaining why he doesn't drive...it's the Spurs offense.
The team is in the negative with him on the court so far in the playoffs. And if you look over just the final three games of the series, I bet he's well in the negative.I can find more...I can also find it in thr playoffs...all you gotta do is look at the playoff +/- figures....they are a small sample size...but it's pretty much the same as in the regular season...
So if the Spurs play Barry in the fourth, they won't lose? Who do you want him on the floor in place of?All you really got to do is go look at what's happened in games where Barry hasn't played in the 4th quarter...
So Barry is a good defender in your eyes?And I think the defense thing is beginning to get laughable...we had some of our best defensive performances of the season with Barry playing 30 minutes and no Tim Duncan.
I'm still waiting for fact number one. You've just rehashed a bunch of stats from the regular season. You've been spouting that you have proof that the team struggles without him in the lineup.I am not taking it personally it's just an unwinnable argument...I've posted fact after fact and you guys reply with..."heartless".
But then I call you on it and you come up with nothing.
Show me. The stats you point to that show Barry's better than his numbers show are the same stats that Hedo dominated last season.I'll can also show you why Hedo was over-rated
If you don't have this proof that you were saying you did, then just admit it. You lied -- no big deal.
Show and prove or admit the proof never existed.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
