*First/Second Team All Defense List*

[D-Wade #3]

so using the same logic as you since "Is that why he couldn't get out the first round w/o Shaq or Gasol?" remark, then Wade shouldnt have gotten the MVP too.

You're re ed, when Shaq was with the Lakers, he was the most dominant center in the game, and the main man on the Lakers. When Shaq was with the Heat, he was clearly on the decline, and no longer the main man. Sure he had something to do with getting to the finals, but I won as the MAIN man.

[mogrovejo]

I never thought of Anderson Varejao as that good of a defender. Above average, but not All-Defensive team. I haven't seen many Cavs games though; just a general impression.

He's probably the most important defender in the Cavs. In a vacuum, LBJ is better, but Varejao fully dedicates himself to defend, unlike LBJ who often takes an easier assignment or coasts for a few possessions here and there. So his actual impact is even bigger than James'. Plus, he's their only big who can defend.

Cleveland has been a good defensive team for the last few years. They declined a bit this season but were still good. Even though:

Shaq - Awful defender
Mo Williams - Awful defender
Jamison - Awful defender
Z - Awful to very poor defender
Hickson - Very poor to mediocre defender
Gibson - Very poor to mediocre defender
Parker - Mediocre defender
Moon - Average defender

Delonte West is the only above average defender in the Cavs rotation besides Varejao + LeBron and yet they still manage to be a good defensive squad.

[Pero]

Hickson - Very poor to mediocre defender
Gibson - Very poor to mediocre defender
Parker - Mediocre defender
Moon - Average defender

Hm you know, mediocre means pretty much the same thing as average.

[TheMACHINE]

You're re ed, when Shaq was with the Lakers, he was the most dominant center in the game, and the main man on the Lakers. When Shaq was with the Heat, he was clearly on the decline, and no longer the main man. Sure he had something to do with getting to the finals, but I won as the MAIN man.

and kobe wasnt the main man on the lakers the past two years? GTFO

[D-Wade #3]

and kobe wasnt the main man on the lakers the past two years? GTFO

We saw what Kobe can do as the main man, and it aint pretty. Gasol is the real key to that team

[D-Wade #3]

And Gasol couldn't get out of the first round either, so they were perfect for each other

[mogrovejo]

Hm you know, mediocre means pretty much the same thing as average.

Sometimes:

Adj. 1. mediocre - moderate to inferior in quality; "they improved the quality from mediocre to above average"
second-rate
inferior - of low or inferior quality

3. mediocre - poor to middling in quality; "there have been good and mediocre and bad artists"
bad - having undesirable or negative qualities

I was using mediocre in this sense of below average:
Awful<poor<mediocre<average.

[Pero]

Sometimes:

Adj. 1. mediocre - moderate to inferior in quality; "they improved the quality from mediocre to above average"
second-rate
inferior - of low or inferior quality

3. mediocre - poor to middling in quality; "there have been good and mediocre and bad artists"
bad - having undesirable or negative qualities

I was using mediocre in this sense of below average:
Awful<poor<mediocre<average.

But it seems to me that in none of your examples does it mean below average. In any case it doesn't matter, I was just nitpicking.

[mogrovejo]

But it seems to me that in none of your examples does it mean below average.

Uh? It means below average in all of them. The players are ordered from worst to less bad:

Shaq, etc. - Awful

Hickson - Very poor to mediocre/below average defender
Gibson - Very poor to mediocre/below average defender
Parker - Mediocre/below average defender
Moon - Average defender

[Pero]

Uh? It means below average in all of them. The players are ordered from worst to less bad:

No, I meant in the dictionary examples that you posted (and I was quoting).

[cobbler]

With the exception of Artest, all those players play both the 2 and 3 really. Afflalo is primarily a 2 though since Melo plays the 3 for the Nuggets. That guy was miles ahead of Kobe defensively this year.

Says you. 29 NBA coaches felt differently. That it really really bothers you is only icing on the cake to us Laker fans. Very comical to see all the butt hurt Kobe haters.

[ChrisRichards]

Says you. 29 NBA coaches felt differently. That it really really bothers you is only icing on the cake to us Laker fans. Very comical to see all the butt hurt Kobe haters.

29 NBA coaches also left Artest off their list which undeniably is LA's best perimeter defender. What say you...