lol the PG position

[D-Wade #3]

Wrong, the Suns never planned on drafting Rondo. Try again init2winit.

That makes Sarver even more of a dumbass, congrats mr 0 & 41

[Basileus777]

Rondo was a huge liability in this series, he simply killed the Celtics half-court offense. He doesn't even need to be guarded when he has the ball in his hands, which is simply amazing for a point guard. He's a point guard, and the offense gets utterly crippled because he's handling the ball. Kobe was free to roam around, play help defense, and crash the defensive boards all series because Rondo is a non-factor in half-court sets.

He's excellent on the fast break, is a good rebounder and help defender and excels at disrupting the passing lanes, but he's so limited in other areas of the game. He's not really an elite point guard and has no business being compared to Paul, Williams, or Nash.

[Goran Dragic]

Also, ask yourself this. If you swap Rondo with Fisher, so the Celts have Fish and LA has Rondo, does LA lose? If not, then this makes no sense.

No, it makes perfect sense, I never said Boston would be better without Rondo, I said their over reliance on Rondo to create shots for other players would kill them. LA is set up such that they can win while getting absolutely no creating from their PG. The point is, teams that rely on their PG to create a bunch of easy shots fall apart in the playoffs.

[Ghazi]

Goran, I just wanna say I agree with the gist of what youre saying that players like Nash, Paul, and Williams even probably cannot be the best player on a le team... but I don't think Rondo's role in Boston was like theirs on their respective teams. ... he is not as ball dominant as them.

Rondo had his share of ty possessions yesterday, but so did a lot of players on both teams. Kobe, the primary ball handler for the Lakers, was worse than Rondo last night.

[Goran Dragic]

LOL now you want to throw out qualifiers. TP, for a PG, dominates the ball a good amount. The offense is designed around that partially.

"Worst team ever to reach a finals"...........So. It just punched a hole in your stupid theory.

Not in 2007 it wasn't. Since the Spurs decided to design their offense around Parker being a ball dominater, they've been a non-contender.

[DPG21920]

No, it makes perfect sense, I never said Boston would be better without Rondo, I said their over reliance on Rondo to create shots for other players would kill them. LA is set up such that they can win while getting absolutely no creating from their PG. The point is, teams that rely on their PG to create a bunch of easy shots fall apart in the playoffs.

It does not matter what position it is, teams have ball dominant players that other guys rely on. Whether that is a PG, SG or what ever.

[Goran Dragic]

That makes Sarver even more of a dumbass, congrats mr 0 & 41

Yeah, what a dumbass Sarver was for not wanting a player who no knew about coming out of college. Why the are you acting like Rondo was some can't miss prospect in 2006? Almost all NBA scouts had Marcus Williams ranked as a better PG, it was a huge shock when Rondo went before Williams.

[Goran Dragic]

It does not matter what position it is, teams have ball dominant players that other guys rely on. Whether that is a PG, SG or what ever.

And when other players rely on the PG to dominate the ball and create shots, that team will always lose.

[DPG21920]

Not in 2007 it wasn't. Since the Spurs decided to design their offense around Parker being a ball dominater, they've been a non-contender.

That is a flat out lie. The offense has been more focused on TP as of late, but he was always a vital part.

I guess Manu's injuries and Duncan declining have nothing to do with the contender status.

You are just picking out one thing, being selective in your qualifiers and dismissing all other things. It is a little silly, imo.

[DPG21920]

And when other players rely on the PG to dominate the ball and create shots, that team will always lose.

No. Almost every team relies on a guard to create shots for them.

[Goran Dragic]

That is a flat out lie. The offense has been more focused on TP as of late, but he was always a vital part.

I guess Manu's injuries and Duncan declining have nothing to do with the contender status.

You are just picking out one thing, being selective in your qualifiers and dismissing all other things. It is a little silly, imo.

They have a ton to do with it. San Antonio has had to rely on Parker more to make up for Duncan's decline and Manu's injuries, and it hasn't worked for them in the playoffs.

I never denied the fact Parker was a vital part, but in 2007 the offense was still unquestionably built around Duncan, and it was always Manu taking the big shots at the end of games. I never said the PG can't be a vital part, but he can't be the focus of the offense. In 2008, Rondo was a role player, and now he's become the focus of the offense. That obviously has to do with the decline of the big 3, but whatever it has to do with, the point is making Rondo the focal point of the offense to compensate for the big 3's decline was a strategy that didn't work.

[Goran Dragic]

No. Almost every team relies on a guard to create shots for them.

I said PG, not shooting guard. The Lakers don't rely on a PG to create anything.

Yes or no, could the 2007 San Antonio Spurs win games when Parker had little to no assists? The Celtics have a very little chance at winning games unless Rondo racks up assists, and that's a large reason why they came up short. In 2007, Parker averaged 5.5 assists. Not a bad number, but not a number that says San Antonio relied on Parker's creating ability, because in 2007, they didn't.

[DPG21920]

Yes they could. But the Spurs are deceptive with assists. They did not rely on assists, but they relied on TP's ball dominant penetration. They have a lot of 'hockey assists". So could Boston if PP played better along with Ray Allen. Rondo got Ray the ball just fine. Ray did nothing with the ball in his hands. PP did very little. Once again, if you want to cling to semantics and say "they did not win", ok. But they were in the NBA finals game 7 against a team with ridiculous talent.

That same Rondo offense got them all the way there. How on Earth can you classify that as losing basketball. In fact it was 7 minutes away from being NBA Champion level basketball.

How did they get through all of those other teams?

[Pelicans78]

Thornton was doing well before CP3's injury. He was even starting 3 games before CP3 got hurt. Collison dominates the ball just as much if not more than CP3.

[Goran Dragic]

Yes they could. But the Spurs are deceptive with assists. They have a lot of 'hockey assists". So could Boston if PP played better along with Ray Allen. Rondo got Ray the ball just fine. Ray did nothing with the ball in his hands. PP did very little. Once again, if you want to cling to semantics and say "they did not win", ok. But they were in the NBA finals game 7 against a team with ridiculous talent.

That same Rondo offense got them all the way there. How on Earth can you classify that as losing basketball. In fact it was 7 minutes away from being NBA Champion level basketball.

How did they get through all of those other teams?

All those other teams were just as flawed as Boston if not more, and they all woulda lost to LA. Orlando's reliance on Jameer Nelson was exposed, and Cleveland was just a great matchup for Rondo because Mo Williams sucks at defense. They were very close to winning it all, yes, but their reliance on Rondo had everything to do with why they collapsed in the 2nd half, it's a reoccuring theme to see PG oriented offenses collapse in the 2nd half of critical games.

[Goran Dragic]

If you put Steve Nash on the Lakers, do they still win?

Yeah, but that doesn't prove anything. Nash would be a spot up shooter on LA who plays off ball.

[DPG21920]

So you are saying, essentially, that only a triangle offense wins.

[Goran Dragic]

So you are saying, essentially, that only a triangle offense wins.

Nope, I'm saying an offense that isn't built around a PG wins (however IMO it's much easier to win in the playoffs if your team has enough talent at SG, SF, PF and/or C that you don't need any offense from your PG). There are situations like 2004 when Billups had a matchup to exploit in the finals because of how bad LA's pick and role D was, but offenses where the PG carries a tremendous load aren't reliable at big moments.

[redzero]

Is it just a coincidence no one knew who Marcus Thornton was till Chris Paul got injured and he had a chance to get touches?

1.) Marcus Thornton didn't play at first because Byron Scott didn't play him (one of the reasons that he was fired).
2.) He and Darren Collison are the ONLY Hornets wings in the last three years other than Paul who can get their own shot.
3.) Collison is almost as ball dominant as CP3, and Thornton plays with Collison the majority of the time.

Horrible example.

After those two, we have straight up jumpshooters like Peja, Mo Pete, and Posey, who can't get their own shot.

[Killakobe81]

My thing is Rondo was a very polarizing player in the playoffs 2nd only to Kobe ...

Some media guys and Celt fans argued he was the best PG in the NBA ...

Others (myself included) recognized his gifts: (wingspan, rebounding, speed activity
level)

BUT FELT his weaknesses: FT's, range, high turnovers, sucks in half-court offense
hurt more than his strengths help ...


Maybe Rondo improves and that changes but for now he is not a top 5 PG


And out of the top 5 I think only Nash and Dwill can be effective without the ball in their hands on offense ....

[mojorizen7]

I completely agree that building around "elite" PG's is a recipe for ultimate fail...history says so for the most part.Like another poster said,build it from the inside out.

However,Rajon Rondo is a BEAST and IMO he's only gonna get better offensively.
Right now Rondo is surrounded by an aging core of great players and i can't fault the young man for trying to make plays....he's still got alot to learn but the kid is simply a hard working tough little SOB who can do ALOT of things for you.

I want Rondo on my team and i think i can win championships with him @ PG as long as i've got an "elite" low post player too. Rondo/Allen is an outstanding backcourt IMO and it'd be THE model if i was to put together a basketball team.

[sook]

why do you post in the same thread with the same troll dok?

[Armando]

Rondo did what he could game 7 is not on him. Pierce and Allen did not play all that great. KG was mostly outplayed by Gasol. Also not having Perkins hurt them on the boards.

[Booharv]

DoK appears to be mad that Nash came to the Suns and made them relevant again.

Weird.

[Giuseppe]

That makes Sarver even more of a dumbass, congrats mr 0 & 41

I don't wish to be anal, but, it's mr O & 42.

tee, hee.