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  1. #76
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    me too. Only after the complete and utter destruction of the rnc, can fiscal conservatives find a voice again.
    +1

  2. #77
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Palin is doing alot more by helping tea party candidates win. i would rather her run the rnc, than be in an elected office.
    Head of the RNC would be a good fit for her, wouldn't it?

  3. #78
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Head of the RNC would be a good fit for her, wouldn't it?
    Palin would be the only choice better than Steele as far as the Democrats are concerned. Equally stupid, but higher profile.

  4. #79
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    lolololol @ trashing Palin as a hypothetical president when the present one is worthless.

  5. #80
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    lolololol @ trashing Palin as a hypothetical president when the present one is worthless.
    Palin would be worse.

  6. #81
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    Prove it.

  7. #82
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    She would have to actually be president to prove it.

  8. #83
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    son, as stupid as you all believe her to be she can't be any more stupid than to have unemployment benefits as her only economic plan for recovery lmao lmao lmao

  9. #84
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    son, as stupid as you all believe her to be she can't be any more stupid than to have unemployment benefits as her only economic plan for recovery lmao lmao lmao
    She has no plan. lmao lmao lmao

  10. #85
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    neither does obama. and that's not funny.

  11. #86
    Believe. beachwood's Avatar
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    lolololol @ trashing Palin as a hypothetical president when the present one is worthless.
    Statements like yours are just pointless. Obama accomplished with Health care what many Dems for decades had tried and failed to do. You can't point to a single failure he's had. Obama has kicked the out of republicans since he stepped into office.

  12. #87
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Statements like yours are just pointless. Obama accomplished with Health care what many Dems for decades had tried and failed to do. You can't point to a single failure he's had. Obama has kicked the out of republicans since he stepped into office.
    If we are talking about pushing through bills with his supermajority congress then yeah he did good. but how did he pass that healthcare bill? what has that bill accomplished? What has been accomplished from us being in a recession since he has been president?

  13. #88
    Booyakasha fraga's Avatar
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    Trying to clean up someone elses ups is never easy...

  14. #89
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Not taking responsibility for anything after four years of dem majority in the congress and two years of supermajority is pretty easy.

  15. #90
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Not taking responsibility for anything after four years of dem majority in the congress and two years of supermajority is pretty easy.
    Yep, when you have a dumb cons uency it's easy to fool them.

  16. #91
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    neither does obama. and that's not funny.
    What is the Republican plan?

    What is the Republican budget?

    What is the Republican plan for the two wars?

    That is funny.

  17. #92
    Believe. beachwood's Avatar
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    If we are talking about pushing through bills with his supermajority congress then yeah he did good. but how did he pass that healthcare bill? what has that bill accomplished? What has been accomplished from us being in a recession since he has been president?
    The resession started in Dec 2007. Obama didn't create it. Since Obama has taken office though, the recession has been stopped and the economy has grown. There's some debate, but it is believed the recession ended some time between May and August of 2009. So yes, Obama stopped the recession created during the Bush administration.

    Yes, the economy is still bad and unemployment rates are horrible, but as the economic downturn wasn't created overnight, it's not going to be fixed overnight either. It's going to take a while right the ship that was sinking when Obama took office. Obama didn't take office with a surplus like W did.

    As for health care, the bill was just signed in at the end of March. Again, legislation of this size is not going to change things overnight. It's to be gradually brought in through the years. I only wish it included the Public Option.

    Here's an article that will explain to you how the legislation will be phased in:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/Chris...l-means-for-us

  18. #93
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    The resession started in Dec 2007. Obama didn't create it. Since Obama has taken office though, the recession has been stopped and the economy has grown. There's some debate, but it is believed the recession ended some time between May and August of 2009. So yes, Obama stopped the recession created during the Bush administration.
    who did create it? 2007? What is your def. of recession? the economy has grown? do you have any data on that? Do you have even a sector that has grown? How exactly did obama stop this recession and why do we need more unemployment welfare if we are out of a recession?

    Yes, the economy is still bad and unemployment rates are horrible, but as the economic downturn wasn't created overnight, it's not going to be fixed overnight either. It's going to take a while right the ship that was sinking when Obama took office. Obama didn't take office with a surplus like W did.
    bush technically didn't have a surplus since it was gone before he had his first budget made.

    As for health care, the bill was just signed in at the end of March. Again, legislation of this size is not going to change things overnight. It's to be gradually brought in through the years. I only wish it included the Public Option.

    Here's an article that will explain to you how the legislation will be phased in:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/Chris...l-means-for-us
    He snuck the healthcare bill in w/o a vote.

  19. #94
    Believe. beachwood's Avatar
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    who did create it? 2007? What is your def. of recession? the economy has grown? do you have any data on that? Do you have even a sector that has grown? How exactly did obama stop this recession and why do we need more unemployment welfare if we are out of a recession?

    bush technically didn't have a surplus since it was gone before he had his first budget made.


    He snuck the healthcare bill in w/o a vote.
    Here's the info you requested regarding the start of the recession: http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/01/news...sion/index.htm

    There is debate about the recessions end. It may take more time to pinpoint exactly. But the economy has grown.

    Here is a chart mapping the GDP dip marking the recession and the GDP upswing marking growth in the economy.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Econ...spx?Symbol=USD

    The are probably many factors why there's high unemployment rates. It's possible many employers are not hiring because even though the recession is over, they may not have faith the economy will stay strong.

    I always find it ironic how conservative politicians fought Obama's HC plan yet they themselves have tax payer funded health care that is provided to every federal employee. I'd love to see every single conservative politician renounce their own current health care coverage.

    Where are you getting your info that Obama snuck in HC without a vote?

    "With the 219-to-212 vote, the House gave final approval to legislation passed by the Senate on Christmas Eve."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/he.../22health.html

    Not sure where you're getting your info on the surplus Bush inherited. Bush definitely came into office with a big fat surplus. Look at the chart.

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...e_federal.html

  20. #95
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Every month, I can plan a budget with a surplus to put in savings. That doesn't mean it actually happens that way. A very simple fact to look at is this. If president Clinton had an actual surplus, rather than on paper, then why did the debt increase in 1998 to 2000, under his budgets?

  21. #96
    Believe. beachwood's Avatar
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    Every month, I can plan a budget with a surplus to put in savings. That doesn't mean it actually happens that way. A very simple fact to look at is this. If president Clinton had an actual surplus, rather than on paper, then why did the debt increase in 1998 to 2000, under his budgets?

    Hmm that's interesting. Can I see the article with this information?

  22. #97
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Hmm that's interesting. Can I see the article with this information?
    You mean you are willing to spout propaganda without looking up the facts behind the ramifications?

    The last time we had an actual surplus was during the Nixon administration, believe it or not.

    From the OMB, Historical tables, Table 7.1—Federal Debt at the End of Year: 1940–2015:

    1960 290,525
    1961 292,648
    1962 302,928
    1963 310,324
    1964 316,059
    1965 322,318
    1966 328,498
    1967 340,445
    1968 368,685
    1969 365,769 <--- dropped from 1968
    1970 380,921
    1971 408,176
    1972 435,936
    1973 466,291
    1974 483,893
    1975 541,925
    1976 628,970
    TQ 643,561
    1977 706,398
    1978 776,602
    1979 829,467
    1980 909,041
    1981 994,828
    1982 1,137,315
    1983 1,371,660
    1984 1,564,586
    1985 1,817,423
    1986 2,120,501
    1987 2,345,956
    1988 2,601,104
    1989 2,867,800
    1990 3,206,290
    1991 3,598,178
    1992 4,001,787
    1993 4,351,044
    1994 4,643,307
    1995 4,920,586
    1996 5,181,465
    1997 5,369,206
    1998 5,478,189
    1999 5,605,523
    2000 5,628,700
    2001 5,769,881
    2002 6,198,401
    2003 6,760,014
    2004 7,354,657
    2005 7,905,300
    2006 8,451,350
    2007 8,950,744
    2008 9,986,082
    2009 11,875,851
    2010 estimate 13,786,615
    2011 estimate 15,144,029
    2012 estimate 16,335,662
    2013 estimate 17,453,482
    2014 estimate 18,532,303
    2015 estimate 19,683,285
    Last edited by Wild Cobra; 07-21-2010 at 06:56 PM.

  23. #98
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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  24. #99
    Believe. beachwood's Avatar
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    You mean you are willing to spout propaganda without looking up the facts behind the ramifications?

    The last time we had an actual surplus was during the Nixon administration, believe it or not.

    From the OMB, Historical tables, Table 7.1—Federal Debt at the End of Year: 1940–2015:

    1960 290,525
    1961 292,648
    1962 302,928
    1963 310,324
    1964 316,059
    1965 322,318
    1966 328,498
    1967 340,445
    1968 368,685
    1969 365,769 <--- dropped from 1968
    1970 380,921
    1971 408,176
    1972 435,936
    1973 466,291
    1974 483,893
    1975 541,925
    1976 628,970
    TQ 643,561
    1977 706,398
    1978 776,602
    1979 829,467
    1980 909,041
    1981 994,828
    1982 1,137,315
    1983 1,371,660
    1984 1,564,586
    1985 1,817,423
    1986 2,120,501
    1987 2,345,956
    1988 2,601,104
    1989 2,867,800
    1990 3,206,290
    1991 3,598,178
    1992 4,001,787
    1993 4,351,044
    1994 4,643,307
    1995 4,920,586
    1996 5,181,465
    1997 5,369,206
    1998 5,478,189
    1999 5,605,523
    2000 5,628,700
    2001 5,769,881
    2002 6,198,401
    2003 6,760,014
    2004 7,354,657
    2005 7,905,300
    2006 8,451,350
    2007 8,950,744
    2008 9,986,082
    2009 11,875,851
    2010 estimate 13,786,615
    2011 estimate 15,144,029
    2012 estimate 16,335,662
    2013 estimate 17,453,482
    2014 estimate 18,532,303
    2015 estimate 19,683,285
    According to the chart you provided the public debt was actually paid down during Clinton's last for years in office. Intra-government debt will always go up because of Social Security. As seen during Nixon's 1968 year when the national debt went down but the intra-government debt actually increased.

    It doesn't mean that a surplus can't exist. A surplus exists when revenues are higher than expenditures.

  25. #100
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    According to the chart you provided the public debt was actually paid down during Clinton's last for years in office. Intra-government debt will always go up because of Social Security. As seen during Nixon's 1968 year when the national debt went down but the intra-government debt actually increased.

    It doesn't mean that a surplus can't exist. A surplus exists when revenues are higher than expenditures.
    So tell me.

    What about interest payments?

    You know, that nasty interest on the debt...

    You and other liberal can pretend all you want it doesn't exist. But it does.

    Also, percentage of GDP is not the same thing either.

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