Wow, great troll post.
Pointing out that Jerry West stepped down from his position in Memphis is not defending the Lakers at all. It was stating the obvious.
Does logic ever make it's way into any of your posts?
Absolutely.
You still haven't used any logic in deducing why everyone else who really follows basketball -- not lakerfan trolls who merely claim to in an ttempt to distract from their trolling -- knew exactly what West knew.
You just outed yourself as ignorant after outing yourself as a troll.
Good job!
Stick around. You might learn something.
You're welcome to back up your statements with actual facts and not cryptic hogwash without a leg to stand on.Absolutely.
You still haven't used any logic in deducing why everyone else who really follows basketball -- not lakerfan trolls who merely claim to in an ttempt to distract from their trolling -- knew exactly what West knew.
You just outed yourself as ignorant after outing yourself as a troll.
Good job!
Stick around. You might learn something.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll continue your little game of playing coy and not actually producing anything of substance because you are a classic message board troll.
No, spanky. You claimed it to be a terrible and crazy move, slapnuts. I asked you to provide an alternative, son.
The burden of proof is on you when you lay forth an allegation or make a judgment from opinion.
What would you have them done if they were your team?
Facts are fun.Have you been a moron your whole life or is this idiotic stance just a position you've decided to take because you're a typical Spurs homer who will rationalize every move the Spurs make as a positive because, well, you're a Spurs homer?
If your team happened to be in a small market and their cashcow wasn't done but was nearing its end, what would you do, ace? Do you pass on doing the best you can under the cir stance -- even if not the most ideal -- or do you pull the trigger and go forth on something that gives you at least a shot at getting better and attaining your objective, goober?
Great quote. You should quote me more often.Here's your quote:
"What piece or pieces would have been available to be had, and would said piece(s) make them better off on the court or financially after restructuring the contract?"
The Lakers and Spurs are and were not in comparable situations, tiger. The Lakers were in rebuild mode while trying to appease their star. They weren't relevant from 05-07. They made some financial gambles and ended up getting bailed out by their farm club - they don't have a problem taking financial gambles because they've got an owner like Buss who's willing to pay, yuck-yuck.This is the unknown. Something that cannot be projected and the example I gave provided what can happen. If you think that's a poor example you're a moron. No one knew Gasol would be traded for pennies on the dollar and the Lakers capitalized. When he have a $15M expiring contract you put yourself in position to gain in this way or worst case scenario he expires and you never pay him the $30M+ you'll owe him in 12, 13, and 14. Yes, the math of saving money now is important to the short sighted homer fan boy looking out for Peter Holt's money but it still eliminates the Spurs from being a true player in these final years of Tim's career. Bad move.
Gasol's acquisition had nothing to do with intelligent moves, it was pure luck and/or collusion.
But go ahead and give me some type of hypothetical where the Spurs land a 'Gasol' with the contract RJ opted out of, young'n.
The future is now, silly goose. Tim's in maybe his final year with a CBA up for renegotiation next year, lad. MLE and minimum players weren't going to put this team closer to a le this year, sweetheart.You can follow the money and rationalize if you like but I'm going to put basketball first, not the money. Saving Holt money in 2011 is really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of the Spurs. RJ would have expired and you never would have had to pay him a dime again, opting to more wisely send money to contributing players / future free agents.
Restructuring the contract allowed them to field a more talented team, while sustaining a business model that sustains the organization.
Would you like to tell me that you know how to run the Spurs' books better than they do?
You honestly don't believe this is all part of a business model and gameplan that they've put together that will allow them to compete now and manage the finances to a level Holt deems manageable, hoss?
Travis Outlaw cheap?A cheap alternative SF option could have been found this summer; Travis Outlaw, Anthony Morrow, Matt Barnes, etc were all bargain deals as examples. Houston gave up Trevor Ariza for garbage and Shane Battier may also be on the block next.
Anthony Morrow can defend the 3?
Matt Barnes would have picked the Spurs over Lakers?
The Rockets were looking to trade Ariza for another small forward?
Trading for Shane Battier during the season puts the Spurs in beter position to win a le?
Logic says you don't read all that well or think things out all that much before responding emotionally in your homeristically baggdiom fashion.Logic says it doesn't have to be a direct trade with a division rival too for the simple minded and short sighted.
Again, I don't play, and I haven't taken myself out of anything, silly rabbit. I await your solution and alternative to what the Spurs have done.But you have no shot at any of this because you took yourself out of the game in order save a few bucks now and you're stuck with Richard Jefferson until 2014 even though he's already in the washed up old bum category. It's only going to get worse.
A solid trade doesn't mean Gasol, freckles. Adding a decent role player should suffice. They're a contender whether you like it or not; who knows what can happen if a team sustains an injury???LOL! They need a solid trade to win but even so they are a contender now? Making logical sense seems to be an afterthought for you. I've met guys like you before and it's always the same story; you're fairly bright and seem to understand the game well enough but you're so bent on being a homer you don't even see how you don't make sense. You remind me of a guy on the espn board; SacRules99. Are you related?
The Spurs could very easily finish 2-4 in the West this year. They're good enough to take advantage of some good fortune. They're in contention, not favorites. Comprende, Jose?
That's some pretty sound and reasonable logic. "The Mavericks suck."Whoop dee doo, the Mavericks suck. You also got swept by the Suns which is much more revealing than celebrating a 1st round victory.
It's funny how bent you are after back-to-back championships. I asked you for an explanation as to why the Spurs were morons and what you would have rather had them do. You've offered nothing of reason: They should have let him expire! Put your eggs in a Gasol-like trade basket! Punt and look to win championships down the road when Duncan is no longer an elite player or even around!
lol Lakerfan and the divorcement from reality.
Your front-running ass doesn't realize championships and championship-caliber players don't come around -- and aren't expected to -- for the vast majority of NBA-folk (i.e., non-Laker-folk).
Your density is adorable, pumpkin.Congratulations. You've done exactly that by restructuring Jefferson's contract and handicapping your roster for 4 more years. Bye bye Timmy! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!
I
Run
E
Yet, all the "experts" had them pegged as the team best equipped to beat the Lakers . . . and the Spurs beat them . . . soundly . . . hmmm . . . .
Hmmm, I seemed to have hit a nerve considering the ensuing "lad, sweetheart, ace" comments. That was easy.
Perhaps we'll actually make a breakthrough this time and communication will be understood.
What part of not extending Richard Jefferson do you not understand? You keep asking for an alternative when I've layed out various possibilities repeatedly. I really shouldn't be that complicated.
I love how you cling to the idea of being "small market" as some kind of handicap for not being able to make bold moves. I understand your mentality clearly; conservatism at all costs because it is the safest route.
Meanwhile you didn't "get better" by re-signing Richard Jefferson to a long term contract. In fact it is the opposite.
You're right they are different. One franchise has repeatedly pulled off the moves to successfully rebuild and retool championship teams over 5 generations and one has had 1 successful era due to a lucky bounce of a ping pong ball in a draft lottery in 1997.
Can't expect a team with dumb luck to actually know what it takes to get back on top. "getting bailed out by their farm club" only illustrates a level of bitterness and stupidity that was to be expected from a bona fide Spurs homer to the highest power.
Collusion? lol. My god you are one delusional schmuck. There was some luck involved because it had to do with having the right pieces at the right time. Timing is everything in this league.
But we know for certain that had the Lakers extended Kwame Brown to a multi-year extention in the summer of 2007 that Pau Gasol trade never would have happened because they wouldn't have had the expiring contract necessary to complete the deal. Gee, I wonder how anyone could have the magical insight to understand the power of an expiring contract in today's NBA? Without prior knowledge of who will become available there is no way to properly evaluate this type of scenario.
You want to talk about "collusion" talk about Richard Jefferson opting out of a guaranteed $15.2M contract for one year and then re-signing with the Spurs for $8.4M WELL ABOVE HIS CURRENT MARKET VALUE for multiple years despite bombing out in embarrassing fashion throughout his one season in SA.
That said, once RJ opted out of his contract the Spurs were not obligated to pay him a cent. But they did. A lot of them too. Talk about a horrendous allocation of resources, lol. That was one of the worst contracts ever awarded in the history of the NBA.
Cheaper, more reliable options were available on the open market at that point.
But Richard Jefferson puts them closer for $39Million??
Had Jefferson not bombed out in his first season would he have opted out of his contract? Imagine he played really really well. Well enough to warrant his $15.2M contract. Then what? The Spurs knew clearly they were acquiring a 2 year contract back in June 09, so they were committing to that financial obligation upfront.
Now all of sudden it was imperative to restructure that contract in order to "sustain a business model that sustains the organization." You humor me with your pre-conceived rationalizations rah rah rahing the organizations every move. Homer.
I wouldn't be lying if I said yes. The Richard Jefferson trade was a bad move to begin with but then to re-sign him to a 4 year contract? Lol.
Don't care what their business model is nor should any basketball fan. The Clippers have a business model and gameplan too. And? So do the Wizards. And the Warriors too? I guess we have to respect their plans as being perfect too.
Compared to Richard Jefferson? Lol. Gee let me pull out my calculator.
Can Richard Jefferson? No. Is Morrow a role player? Yes. Is RJ? No. Are you now looking for the 'perfect' option or would you be satisfied with the "best available option?"
If they offered more money, sure? He wasn't knocking on the Lakers door until all other deals for more money fell through first. And yes the Spurs could have offered more.
It was a 4 way trade that other teams got involved in in order to make the deal happen. Didn't have to be a direct trade as stated following your miscalculated quoting of this comment.
Better than Richard Jefferson? lol. You got jokes don't you?
Nope.
It's been layed out several times now. Be big boy and try to put it all together.
I completely agree. It does not mean Gasol. But regardless, your team is not a contender. You seem to have a serious problem understanding what cons utes a "contender." About 20 teams in the league are "one good trade away" from being a contender.A solid trade doesn't mean Gasol, freckles. Adding a decent role player should suffice. They're a contender whether you like it or not; who knows what can happen if a team sustains an injury???
Time to hit the books harder and think before you post this ridiculous nonsense fan boy.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't. They could just as easily get the 8th spot or miss the playoffs altogether too. Getting a 2-4 seed in a watered down conference does not make you a contender. There is one true contender in the West and a maybe a couple of young up and coming teams that are looking to make a leap. Then there are the carcasses of teams that once were there and delusionally still believe they're there.
Because it is true. They do suck. Crap teams battling out of the 1st round is unimpressive. Your team has won exactly 1 playoff series in 2 years. Cling to it as impressive all you want but know that I'm going stay right where I am in the real world where that is thoroughly pathetic.
Yup, keep him as a trade chip and if that doesn't work out let him expire and move on.
To understand my position you have to come down from your platform of delusion that somehow believes that having Jefferson on your team long term makes you contenders. It doesn't. Your team is middle of the pack in the West with Jefferson or without. He was guaranteed to be on the roster this one final year regardless.
You'd have the EXACT SAME ROSTER. Lol.
Your front-running ass doesn't realize championships and championship-caliber players don't come around -- and aren't expected to -- for the vast majority of NBA-folk (i.e., non-Laker-folk).
Your density is adorable, pumpkin.
Blah blah blah, my poor little small market team has all the odds stacked against them, woe is me, we do the best we can. lol.
Doesn't mean you make stupid moves like re-sign Richard Jefferson for 4 years at $39 M WELL ABOVE his market value in a wink wink deal to save a few bucks this year. Dumb move.
I might read all of that, I might not.
We'll see pumpkin.
You believe the Spurs and RJ had a prearranged deal. Logical. Fair enough.
You believe the Spurs should have prearranged the deal and reneged on said deal - or you haven't a clue that the Spurs couldn't have used anything other than their exceptions -- regardless if RJ opted in or out -- because the team is over the cap.
You seem to think that the Spurs and any team with a comparable owner and market should have no problem winning championships with a soft cap and without the Duncans Shaqs and Kobes of the world. (Detachment: look it up.)
You believe RJ is a scrub. He's not, he's a bad fit.
You believe Tony Parker's the worst defender in the league, but you're 'objective.'
lol homer/fanboy talk
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop, Buford, among others, have all alluded to this year likely being their last shot at winning a le with the Big 3. They're trying to win one last time while Duncan is still among the elite of the league (tell me he's not Mr. Objectivity).
Again, I wasn't for the initial trade. Had they been able to get an Iguodala for him last year, I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat. But that time's past.
The Spurs put their chips in with the idea of RJ being a piece to their championship puzzle and they have no choice but to make it work. They're too far down the road, too much time invested and the options are minimal and improbable without RJ aboard
Would you mind telling us how you can be presented with the financial facts and reality, tell us it doesn't matter to you, but use its importance as the basis for an argument moving forward, princess?
Again, what would you have had the Spurs do to give them the best chance at winning a championship this year?
You can either have RJ and the exceptions or;
the exceptions and no RJ.
Fact of the matter is, RJ alluded to opting out as far back as April. Whether the Spurs managed to prearrange a deal or not, his goal was to secure more guaranteed money over the life of his contract. No one knew or believed prior to him opting out that the market would be as dry as it turned out for his services; and the fact that it took so long for him to re-sign with the Spurs would leave the logical to believe he may have had an offer on the table, but he would be elsewhere had that offer been matched or exceeded.
So it's not simply, 'bring back the expiring.' And even if you make that leap, you're left to hope for the perfect trade -- a seamless fit -- that can get you over the hump and upgrade the roster over RJ.
The Spurs aren't that far off, spanky. The Lakers are a of a team, and they're clearly the best team in the West. but they're not leaps and bounds better than everyone else. You do realize the Thunder -- the 8 seed -- took them to 7, right? (And you might wanna to do a little brushing up on the history of basketball and the Spurs - may only have 4 les but they've been quite the successful bunch, pumpkin.
Toodle pip, mucca!
You believe the Spurs and RJ had a prearranged deal. Logical. Fair enough.
You believe the Spurs should have prearranged the deal and reneged on said deal - or you haven't a clue that the Spurs couldn't have used anything other than their exceptions -- regardless if RJ opted in or out -- because the team is over the cap.
You seem to think that the Spurs and any team with a comparable owner and market should have no problem winning championships with a soft cap and without the Duncans Shaqs and Kobes of the world. (Detachment: look it up.)
You believe RJ is a scrub. He's not, he's a bad fit.
You believe Tony Parker's the worst defender in the league, but you're 'objective.'
lol homer/fanboy talk
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop, Buford, among others, have all alluded to this year likely being their last shot at winning a le with the Big 3. They're trying to win one last time while Duncan is still among the elite of the league (tell me he's not Mr. Objectivity).
Again, I wasn't for the initial trade. Had they been able to get an Iguodala for him last year, I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat. But that time's past.
The Spurs put their chips in with the idea of RJ being a piece to their championship puzzle and they have no choice but to make it work. They're too far down the road, too much time invested and the options are minimal and improbable without RJ aboard
Would you mind telling us how you can be presented with the financial facts and reality, tell us it doesn't matter to you, but use its importance as the basis for an argument moving forward, princess?
Again, what would you have had the Spurs do to give them the best chance at winning a championship this year?
You can either have RJ and the exceptions or;
the exceptions and no RJ.
Fact of the matter is, RJ alluded to opting out as far back as April. Whether the Spurs managed to prearrange a deal or not, his goal was to secure more guaranteed money over the life of his contract. No one knew or believed prior to him opting out that the market would be as dry as it turned out for his services; and the fact that it took so long for him to re-sign with the Spurs would leave the logical to believe he may have had an offer on the table, but he would be elsewhere had that offer been matched or exceeded.
So it's not simply, 'bring back the expiring.' And even if you make that leap, you're left to hope for the perfect trade -- a seamless fit -- that can get you over the hump and upgrade the roster over RJ.
The Spurs aren't that far off, spanky. The Lakers are a of a team, and they're clearly the best team in the West. but they're not leaps and bounds better than everyone else. You do realize the Thunder -- the 8 seed -- took them to 7, right? (And you might wanna to do a little brushing up on the history of basketball and the Spurs - may only have 4 les but they've been quite the successful bunch, pumpkin.
Toodle pip, mucca!
Wisely using the exceptions on players that actually fit not scrubs who do not fit would seem to make the most sense from a basketball perspective.
You choose not to do this when ample talent is available at "bargain" prices (you seemed to have wrapped your head around this concept now) when you colluded with your own player to work out a long term contract for well above market value. Not smart, period.
You seem to think that having Jefferson on this team affects the teams championship aspirations when it doesn't because 1) he doesn't fit 2) he's a scrub 3) even if he plays well the Spurs aren't contenders
Duncan is no longer dominant. This is not news, this is a fact. Evidenced by his inability to impact a playoff series just as he didn't versus Phoenix. Guards were waltzing into the lane for lay up drill on Duncan's watch all throughout that series. Was that the Duncan of old? Of course not. And only delusional fan boys with their nose jammed in a stat sheet believe otherwise.
I think the root of our problem here is that you believe the Spurs have a chance and I am clearly on the side that says they're irrelevant pretenders.
Guess we'll have to see how this season shapes up and see who is right. I sure hope that investment pans out for the Spurs for your sake as your credibility in this forum will rely heavily on this. I can't wait guess this is like Deja vu for me.
They did. RJ had no bearing on the exceptions, sweetie.
What role players at bargain prices make the Spurs better than what they are with or without RJ?You choose not to do this when ample talent is available at "bargain" prices (you seemed to have wrapped your head around this concept now) when you colluded with your own player to work out a long term contract for well above market value. Not smart, period.
lol 'you colluded.'
You seem to think you know what you're talking about because; a.) you keep typing; b.) you don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument; and c.) you seem to believe you're getting over and trolling here.You seem to think that having Jefferson on this team affects the teams championship aspirations when it doesn't because 1) he doesn't fit 2) he's a scrub 3) even if he plays well the Spurs aren't contenders
You really should have just told the Spurs they weren't going to win a championship no matter how hard they tried, how much they paid and that they should have traded Duncan to a team that could use him. It really would have saved the whole organization and fandom a lot of time and energy.
Way to drop the ball, sugar s. Way to look out for your fellow man.
Duncan is not dominant is fact? There's some objectivity.Duncan is no longer dominant. This is not news, this is a fact. Evidenced by his inability to impact a playoff series just as he didn't versus Phoenix. Guards were waltzing into the lane for lay up drill on Duncan's watch all throughout that series. Was that the Duncan of old? Of course not. And only delusional fan boys with their nose jammed in a stat sheet believe otherwise.
He ain't what he used to be but he's still the second or third best 4/5 in the entire league. GTFO.
The problem here is you came into this arena looking to regulate rather than answer the questions asked. You have an opinion, I asked you to explain it. You've failed to do so -- I never touted the Spurs as the next champ or that I was in love with the RJ contract, or anything else to that effect.I think the root of our problem here is that you believe the Spurs have a chance and I am clearly on the side that says they're irrelevant pretenders.
You said the Spurs were crazy for resigning RJ. I said I understand why they did it given the options and financial implications: they made a promise to Tim they'd do everything in their power to put the best team out on the floor possible as his career wound to a close. That's why Tim sacrificed millions on his extension and that's why -- even if it's not the most ideal of situations -- the Spurs were willing to do what they did.
I don't expect a championship and have never pretended to. I believe they're a little more than a gatekeeper at this point: better than most, not quite the best.
But it's not out of the realm they could find a way to get or develop the right piece(s) and stay healthy enough to win another le. There are no guarantees, which is something you just don't quite grasp.
See, blinded by your self-importance and wish to be right you've missed the whole reason for discourse:Guess we'll have to see how this season shapes up and see who is right. I sure hope that investment pans out for the Spurs for your sake as your credibility in this forum will rely heavily on this. I can't wait guess this is like Deja vu for me.
You've already said the money doesn't mean anything to you, so what would you have had the Spurs do this year to put the best team together:
exceptions and RJ or;
exceptions and no RJ?
All the rest is conjecture and hypothetical.
Look. We understand the value of expiring contract. You just think too highly of yourself. Except RJ is not an expiring contract last season. He opted out. In any case, you are not giving an explanation to your statements. You went to explain about expiring contract because you know you had no answer about what I have pointed out to you
To reiterate my point & to make sure you understand the irony of your own sentences, I repeat what you said:
"Overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better. Never."
Essentially Lakers paid that underachieving scrub namely Kwame Brown for 3 yrs (2005-2008) before trading him for Pau which worked out nicely for the Lakers. And you said overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better ?!!
You just contradicted yourself there and then. There is no need to discuss anymore basketball matters after this since you have proven that you are just trolling with flippant sentences like these.
Hey, it's not my fault you didn't and still don't know what West and everyone who follows basketball knew back then.
There is nothing cryptic about your ignorance.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll whine more that I am not spoon feeding your ignorant troll ass.
And here you were saying you were going to educate us.
This troll is a sucker for getting owned, lol.
check out this article i found... led will he bounce back..referring to rj this season...
and why he WILL. Do i agree with it , no. But here is some supporting do entation if you will for those that think Rj will step up after being punked by Pop.
http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/ca...ard-jefferson/
He reported to camp last week with 7 percent body fat and a cut-up physique.Holy smokes!
"The reason Jefferson’s attempts are down is that he just doesn’t have the same athletic ability that he had in the beginning of his career."
Couldn't disagree more... He had basically the same athletic ability as he did in Milwaukee, the reason Jefferson's attempts were down at the rim from the previous season in Milwaukee is because of the significant decrease of overall touches he received.
He put up 14.9 shots a game in Milwaukee in 2008/2009 season and 4.0 attempts at the rim. (1,222 overall attempts in 2008/2009 season)
Where here in San Antonio he only put up 9.6 shots a game last season and 3.1 shots at the rim. (775 overall attempts in 2009/2010 season)
Huge difference..It wasn't because he all of a sudden became Roger Mason in athletic ability. It was because the opportunities simply were not there because of the talent around him with the Spurs.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 10-07-2010 at 02:42 AM.
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