Your All-NBA 1st, 2nd and 3rd Teams 2011

[JamStone]

Rose
Kobe (I don't know if he really deserves it over Wade but I think he'll get the votes)
LeBron
Amare (toss up between him and Dirk, Amare's numbers on paper are slightly better)
Dwight

Westbrook
Wade
Durant
Dirk
Gasol

Deron Williams
Ginobili (leading scorer on the league's best team, again rewarding him for team success)
Pierce (leading scorer on best team in the East, no other Celtic getting honored)
Carmelo
Duncan (center position weak, throwing a bone to Timmy for his team's success)

I used Duncan and Gasol as "hybrid" centers since the position is so weak in the league this season. Allows the league to honor more deserving players at the forward positions.

Blake Griffin might get some consideration, as well as Kevin Love, but I don't see either of them getting it being on such bad teams. I could see Rondo getting the third team.

I think Nash and CP3 might be victims of their own past success. Their numbers are still solid although CP3's are down. But their numbers could have an argument for either. I think the lack of great team success and the fact both had had much better seasons in the past kind of hurt them here.

[Kyle Orton]

It's an excellent comparison, if you have an ounce of intelligence and are able to grasp the basic parallels. I'm not talking about legacy, genius.

How is it an excellent comparison, it's not even the same sport. Switching your position as a fielder doesn't at all affect your ability as a batter. A-Rod is known for his ability as a batter. Playing 3rd base hasn't adversely affected his batting performance at all even though short stop is his natural position.

In basketball, a player has a natural position just like baseball, only moving away from his natural position has an adverse affect on his numbers. If Duncan were a "true power forward", then theoretically moving to center would compromise his ability as a player since it's a position he isn't comfortable playing. A "true power forward" like Barkley or Malone would get destroyed at C because of their lack of height.

I'm just saying, it is possible to be the greatest ever at one position and amongst the greatest at another. People have this idea that Duncan has to be one or the other, which is foolish.

Have you ever heard anyone consider "Oscar Robertson" among the greatest PGs ever? His natural position was shooting guard (a position he's thought of as an all time great at) but he played a good amount at PG. His resume matches up decently with guys like Isiah Thomas or John Stockton, so by your logic people would consider him among the best PGs of all time, right?

Debate Rodriguez' fielding at third all you want, he's still put up big time numbers playing the position and will go down as one of the greatest ever at third overall.

Will he go down as an all time great batter who happened to play 3rd base, or will he go down as an all time great 3rd baseman who truly mastered the art of playing 3rd base

My point is he doesn't "change positions based on opportunity". It just so happens that he became a full-time center at a time when the league became ridiculously thin with high end centers.

Right. It just so happens he went through a power forward --> center metamorphosis when the league's talent level at center was drying out. It couldn't possibly be like every other situation where a power forward has played more center recently because his team has suffered from the talent level at C drying out and has had to play someone out of position at center.

(plus the fact that it's much easier to find a starting caliber PF than C), he's a center by default now.

So because the Spurs are one of many teams that don't have one of the few good "true centers" in the NBA, he's a center by default, not a power forward playing center because his team needs him to? By this logic Amare is a center by default.

[TD 21]

How is it an excellent comparison, it's not even the same sport. Switching your position as a fielder doesn't at all affect your ability as a batter. A-Rod is known for his ability as a batter. Playing 3rd base hasn't adversely affected his batting performance at all even though short stop is his natural position.

In basketball, a player has a natural position just like baseball, only moving away from his natural position has an adverse affect on his numbers. If Duncan were a "true power forward", then theoretically moving to center would compromise his ability as a player since it's a position he isn't comfortable playing. A "true power forward" like Barkley or Malone would get destroyed at C because of their lack of height.



Have you ever heard anyone consider "Oscar Robertson" among the greatest PGs ever? His natural position was shooting guard (a position he's thought of as an all time great at) but he played a good amount at PG. His resume matches up decently with guys like Isiah Thomas or John Stockton, so by your logic people would consider him among the best PGs of all time, right?


Will he go down as an all time great batter who happened to play 3rd base, or will he go down as an all time great 3rd baseman who truly mastered the art of playing 3rd base


Right. It just so happens he went through a power forward --> center metamorphosis when the league's talent level at center was drying out. It couldn't possibly be like every other situation where a power forward has played more center recently because his team has suffered from the talent level at C drying out and has had to play someone out of position at center.


So because the Spurs are one of many teams that don't have one of the few good "true centers" in the NBA, he's a center by default, not a power forward playing center because his team needs him to? By this logic Amare is a center by default.

It's an all-time great player, who's career has been split between two positions, who will go down as the greatest ever at one position and one of the greatest ever at the other. You can get into the semantics all you want, the basis of it makes sense and there is an obvious parallel there.

I didn't say every great player who played two positions has to be considered amongst the greatest at both, I said it's possible. People act like it has to be an either/or with Duncan, but it doesn't.

Rodriguez will go down as the former. But again, you're talking semantics.

It's not just about the league going through a "metamorphosis" or the fact that it's tougher to fill the C position than it is the PF position. It's about that and the fact that his mobility has declined. As a whole, it's easier for him to guard C's, because they're generally more limited offensively and slower.

The difference is, Stoudemire is a true PF. Duncan is playing C by default, but he can also reasonably be considered a C. Which is why I consider him a 4.5.

[resistanze]

LOL Kevin Love shouldn't sniff the list.

[Obstructed_View]

Not really agreeing with anyone here, but let me get this straight. So it's foolish for someone to say that Rose>Kobe because of MVP voting?

No, it's foolish to say "Kobe>Rose. Period." It's an opinion stated as fact. I simply wished to point out that there are a number of opinions that disagree, including mine.

And it's also foolish for someone to overlook Love because of PER ...

If I'd said that, then you might have a point. I mentioned PER, but also that Love leads the league in rebounding and is currently beasting the league like nobody has seen in 30 years.

[Obstructed_View]

Really? He' "nearly" leading the Suns to another 62 win season?

Precisely my point. He was given Shaq's MVP award for the incorrect predictions about where the Suns were going to finish and for his team's lack of a backup point guard. His stats are about the same. Funny how that doesn't add up to team success without everyone else that was around him for his MVP seasons.

[Obstructed_View]

Kevin Love

Rajon Rondo

I understand the argument against Love, but you have a problem with Rondo? Really? Rondo leads the league in assists and steals, the Celtics are first in the east and have nobody else on the all-nba list.

[endrity]

Rose
Kobe (I don't know if he really deserves it over Wade but I think he'll get the votes)
LeBron
Amare (toss up between him and Dirk, Amare's numbers on paper are slightly better)
Dwight

Westbrook
Wade
Durant
Dirk
Gasol

Deron Williams
Ginobili (leading scorer on the league's best team, again rewarding him for team success)
Pierce (leading scorer on best team in the East, no other Celtic getting honored)
Carmelo
Duncan (center position weak, throwing a bone to Timmy for his team's success)

I used Duncan and Gasol as "hybrid" centers since the position is so weak in the league this season. Allows the league to honor more deserving players at the forward positions.

Blake Griffin might get some consideration, as well as Kevin Love, but I don't see either of them getting it being on such bad teams. I could see Rondo getting the third team.

I think Nash and CP3 might be victims of their own past success. Their numbers are still solid although CP3's are down. But their numbers could have an argument for either. I think the lack of great team success and the fact both had had much better seasons in the past kind of hurt them here.

I think Dirk's real compe ion is Durant, Amare has cooled off quite a bit after his scorching start. But I see that most people's First and Second team are quite similar.

[LnGrrrR]

Tbh, Babe Ruth was a spectacular pitcher too, and even average baseball fans should know that. If Babe had kept pitching, he probably could've made it to the HOF on those credentials alone.

[rayjayjohnson]

this is too much.

When comparing Duncan's career to a league that has historically had dominant centers like Kareem, Olajuwon or Shaq who have led their team to multiple les while having a lot less dominant PFs who have rarely ever been the alpha dog who led his team to a le, Duncan is a power forward. That way he's the GOAT at his position with more on his resume than the likes of Charles Barkley or Karl Malone.

All the sudden, when current day Duncan is in a league that has at center and tons of talent at power forward, Duncan deserves an all NBA award because he's better than all centers other than Dwight Howard (as if being better than all centers not named Dwight Howard means something). I don't understand how a fan base that raves so much about winning and not caring about meaningless awards goes to this kinds of depths to add meaningless awards to Duncan's resume.

lol moron.

horford is a tonne better than duncan at the C. As is Andrew Bogut, , even Bynum is having a better season in the middle than Jim.

[sefant77]

Sterns golden boy Durant will be anyway 1st team, no matter the record comparing to the Mavs.

[endrity]

Sterns golden boy Durant will be anyway 1st team, no matter the record comparing to the Mavs.

Dirk's not going below 4th in MVP ballots, and if the Mavs get to 60 wins he might be top 2. There is no way Durant passes him over if any of this happens.

The reason I say that the 1st team is pretty much decided is because what MVP ballots would look like today:
Rose, LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Kobe, in that order. And luckily enough all those guys are in the right positions to qualify for an All-Nba team.

[tlongII]

LaMarcus should be 1st team. He's a better power forward than Amare or Dirk now.

[endrity]

LaMarcus should be 1st team. He's a better power forward than Amare or Dirk now.

[Cry Havoc]

Tbh, Babe Ruth was a spectacular pitcher too, and even average baseball fans should know that. If Babe had kept pitching, he probably could've made it to the HOF on those credentials alone.

And I'm betting early in his career, Babe Ruth would have been a pitcher in the All-Star game, had they had one at the time.

Later in his career, he would have obviously been considered a power hitter for the same event.