I wouldn't know about what?
Will Manu ever hit Maradona's level? No chance. The dude was in a different league altogether by himself in terms of skills and competing. I am not from a soccer-crazy nation (except for world cup and EPL), but we all loved Maradona. Even now football means Maradona to us here in India. That much popular the guy is.
Oh, please don't bring the Mex vs. Arg. argument here.
Besides Hugo Sanchez, few or none Mexican players who were active before the 1990's are known to the rest of the world.
The reasons?
1. Mexico didn't have an financially strong league, the quality of football was below average. The national team was a bit better, but still it wasn't what it is today (a top 25 team in the world)
2. Mexican clubs and National Team didn't get involved with South America in other compe ion that the World Cup. The Mexican players names have become known to South Americans since the 1990's, when the Mexican teams were invited to the Libertadores and Copa America.
Do you know where that phrase was created?Well futbol in mexico is a religion...
And the stadium is a church...
Let me quote an English journalist:
"Argentines not only understand exactly what Liverpool manager Bill Shankly meant when he said football was more important than life or death; they will nod furiously in approval."
The only reason he'll never reach his level is because:
Futbol is like 999999999999999999 times more popular than basketball in Argentina Period
Back to the topic, even though I agree that most latin america will be w/the spurs in the finals, not all. Don't forget Miami might still be in it.
WOW THIS THREAD WENT IN INTRESTING DIRECTION.
OH - AND THANK YOU ARGENTINIAN PEOPLE.
btw - do you know some players from Poland? I mean are they mentioned between all those names from the soccer greats? (from past)
Ya I think Duncan sells more jerseys than Manu's jerseys.
Well, I do, but I have Polish blood. My grandfather was born near Kielce, and my grandmother in Katowice. So when I was young I always heard about the Polish players in the 1970's, Boniek, Deyna, Lato, Lubanski, etc. I don't think that they are considered as one of the greatest ever by most Argentinians, but that 1970's team is remebered by those who are interested in football history.
From the current team I only know Dudek, Klos, Kaluzny and Olisadebe.
so, i only live in rhode island... im in the same country and i only get like 3 games a season... thank god for NBA TV...
Argentina's place in Fútbol is indisputable; current and historic. You all have attained 2 World Cup les, countless Copa America les, heavy-weight club teams are always globally ranked, and you all have amazing soccer players spread throughout the world (including México).Oh, please don't bring the Mex vs. Arg. argument here.
Besides Hugo Sanchez, few or none Mexican players who were active before the 1990's are known to the rest of the world.
The reasons?
1. Mexico didn't have an financially strong league, the quality of football was below average. The national team was a bit better, but still it wasn't what it is today (a top 25 team in the world)
2. Mexican clubs and National Team didn't get involved with South America in other compe ion that the World Cup. The Mexican players names have become known to South Americans since the 1990's, when the Mexican teams were invited to the Libertadores and Copa America.
Do you know where that phrase was created?
Let me quote an English journalist:
"Argentines not only understand exactly what Liverpool manager Bill Shankly meant when he said football was more important than life or death; they will nod furiously in approval."
An Argentina vs. México argument will hands down always favor Argentina; the awards speak for themselves. In fact, in Latin American soccer, for the past 15 years or so, the rankings would place Brazil and Argentina (interchangably at 1 and 2) followed by México at No. 3. But if all history was considered México would drop below Uraguay and Peru and perhaps even Chile.
On the topic of Hugo Sanchez though, I believe if you were to drop him in his prime to México's current National Team, he would be perceived as an even better player than what he was back in his day... Because as good as he was, he never had a "Great" national team to help him carry the load... and so his teams always fell short.
To his credit though, whenever he played on a well rounded team (like Real Madrid), his talent and fútbol I.Q. were made evident to the rest of the world. Exhibit A: 5 scoring les in the Spanish Liga... 4 of them in consecutive fashion. The dude just had a knack for scoring; from anywhere, with his head, with either foot, via free-kicks, from the corner, and let's not forget, he singlehandedly made an art form of the bicycle kick or the "Chilena" as we like to call it.
Didn't one of Sanchez's Real Madrid teams beat Maradona's Napoli team in what was then a precursor to the Champion's League... Again, with Sanchez taking the tournament's golden boot???
It would be unfair to say that Hugo Sanchez was simply a "good" player... I don't think any other player in Argentina except of course Maradona and DiStéfano were better than him... but that's just my opinion (please no one respond to this part of the post with a list of players you all consider better... I'm not trying to start a debate, I just want to shed some light on Sanchez's unfortunate position in México as a lone gunner during the 80's).
Also, as for the lack of emergence of other Mexican standouts... it boils down to this, the few players that could possibly make a name for themselves in Europe simply don't go because they are paid extremely well in México. Blanco left Spain because they refused to pay his contract... he returned to Mexico for a $3.7 MM salary. Luis Garcia left Spain on the same grounds and returned to México to what was then the highest salary in the country at I believe ~$1.6 MM. Why go to Europe if you are getting paid to stay in the comfort of your own country, home, and with all of your family around? Now, this has not always been the case... but even if somebody wanted to pursue a career outside of Mexican Fútbol... the doors in Europe have not been very kind to them. So many of them simply don't bother. I could assure you México has some of the best Goal-keepers in fútbol... and why do we not export them? Because, Europe has no supposed need for them...
Anyways México had other standouts even before Sanchez... Such as Isidoro Diaz Mejia, or Enrique Borja. My dad once told me about the time when, then champions Germany played against a group of "World Stars". Pelé as confounded as anyone, asked what Borja was doing there.... Borja responded everyone's scorn by scoring two beautiful goals. In a post game interview, Pelé was asked about his new Mexican teammate, and he responded something like, "Now I know why they brought him here... he can score!"
BTW Bill Shankly's quote does not mean that Mexicans don't esteem football with the same regard as Argentinians.... You just made a point to say that that both Mexicans and Argentinians agree.
oh yes, probably he'll be in my short list, next to Maradona
We've moved waaaaaaaaaaaaaAAA.-A-A-A,AAA-Aaaayyyy off topic now, but what the heck.
Hugo played with Butragueño, Michel, Buyo, Sanchis, and other amazing players in that Real Madrid team, while Maradona had Careca and....um, well, not much else. And Real Madrid has been a powerhouse in football since the 1950's, while Napoli had the Maradona's years and nothing else to be proud in their history, there's no possible comparission between the teams.Didn't one of Sanchez's Real Madrid teams beat Maradona's Napoli team in what was then a precursor to the Champion's League... Again, with Sanchez taking the tournament's golden boot???
It's not that I hate Mexican football, but it has its fair share of trolls going around the net. Many Argentinian football message boards were ruined with troll flooding, and yes, of course there are Argentinians trolls too, but the numbers are by far bigger for the Mexican side.
There are a lot of stories involving Pelé, most of them have reached legendary status. For example, a small Argentinian team, Colon de Santa Fe, beat Pele's Santos in 1964, when they were in their prime. This made people nickname Colon's stadium as the "Cementerio de Los Elefantes" (The Elephants graveyard), since it looked like every big team who visited their stadium collapsed.Anyways México had other standouts even before Sanchez... Such as Isidoro Diaz Mejia, or Enrique Borja. My dad once told me about the time when, then champions Germany played against a group of "World Stars". Pelé as confounded as anyone, asked what Borja was doing there.... Borja responded everyone's scorn by scoring two beautiful goals. In a post game interview, Pelé was asked about his new Mexican teammate, and he responded something like, "Now I know why they brought him here... he can score!"
I'm not saying that, it's just impossible to understand what an Argentinian feels for football without being one. You are born just breathing football here. This is both good (success, high standards, knowledge) and bad (violence, overreacting). Football culture here is HUGE. The local dialect of Spanish is full of football metaphors, football is discussed everywhere, no matter how small the match it might be, it gets TV broadcast. Most of the songs that other Latin American fans sing were created by Argentinian fans ('tho they seem to forget this when arguing).BTW Bill Shankly's quote does not mean that Mexicans don't esteem football with the same regard as Argentinians.... You just made a point to say that that both Mexicans and Argentinians agree.
Yeah, Boniek or Lato (plaz forgive if wrote wrong their names), those two guys were really great, perhaps Boniek was greater than Lato.
The challenge is to agree about who are in the short list, but there's no doubt who are the best two Maradona and Pele (the order you prefer...)
Great contribution, I did not know that
AMEN!! From now on, if anybody wishes to know about Argentinian sports, just ask our friend here, he knows practically everything and with details. LOL
Cable TV (or DirecTV) was included in your hotel fee. Simple as that.I was in Mendoza last week and in the hotel they have America TV
Cable is not free.
America TV is only free-to-air in Buenos Aires. AND even so, most sports events are blacked-out for the rest of the country.
I would hope you would at least see some credit to my post and not consider it a troll's post (I'm not implying that this is what you thought).
The bolded statement: See... you would agree that a supporting cast is immensely important in a sport like soccer. Sanchez never had one on his national squads... at no fault of his own. I guess I could turn the question around. If Maradonna was on Mexico's '86 squad, would they have won the Cup? Maradonna was unstoppable that year, so the answer would probably be yes. Mexico's actual 4th place finish in that cup without him doesn't hurt their chances that the addition of Maradonna would have taken them over the top. Anyways, what I'm trying to point out, is that that sort of exposure... on the sport's grandest stage would have given the other players positive feedback.... They might have even gone and played in Europe's league's...
Any speculation aside... Mexican fútbol does deserve a bit of credit no??? Didn't Chivas who didn't even make the playoffs in Mexico's league just beat Boca Jrs.... 4-0 in La Copa Libertadores...?? And no, it's not a trolling statement... it happened recently and so I wrote it down as an example.
Didn't that same Boca team narrowly escape losing the finals of the '03 version of the Libertadores cup to Mexico's Cruz Azul Club.... All I'm saying is that our football deserves a little more respect than to be mentioned solely at your heels....
Do you want to work as a sports writer?
At least you should read something about the greatest player in soccer history.
OK, granted, US people dont give a damn about soccer, but try to keep informed.
Not only he was the greatest so far (IMHO), but he is still loved all over the world. Ask anywhere you go (Asia, Africa, Europe, Oceania... Mars) and although most people there won't know sh*t about Michael Jordan, Joe Montana or Babe Ruth... you'll get a drink just for naming Diego.
Comparing Manu to Maradona is out of line. Perhaps Gabriel Batistuta would be a better comparo in terms of popularity
Maradonna was one of the World's Flagship Soccer players (of a short list of two: Pelé is the other)
Manu is Argentina's Flagship Basketball player.
man i feel lucky for the NBA coverage i get
we pay like 10 bucks a month for cable and viola we get an NBA game every day sometimes even two or three games
i'm hoping other countries work out some kind of deal.
well the Philippines is a basketball crazy country i guess it's only natural
wait a min.... $10 bucks a month for cable??? I'm moving to the phillipines damn it!
I thing that in the history of football there is a battle between Pele and Maradona which one of them was the best in history of that sport.
Klos kaluzy and Olisadebe are pretty much over. (olisadebe was playing in national team about 2 years- all the hallo is over now).
Polish football (in Poland is just katatrophic, because of people in organizations and because of money...blebleble)
The golden times are gone ('70 maybe '80)
If your gradparents were born in KielceThan you must be 25% Polish guy (if my math is correct what's not that obvious) Great to hear that.
That's correct those two guys were ,and maybe still are (Dudek now) the most popular sportsmen in Poland.
But I do not think they were the best. Many polish players could not go abroad to play in great Europeans leauges and that stinks man. All polish football stinks and realy many talents are wasted....
So realy great to here that even there you still remember the Polish team.
A lot of Polish came to Argentina during WWII.
Not only Polish, but Italian, Spanish, German, etc...also.
This country is 25% European.
I have enjoyed reading this thread very much! Nada que ver con Manu.
Soccer is very important, but we like succesful people. And right now, none of the best argentinian soccer players is doing too much. Our soccer icon (Even he´s got a church La Iglesia Maradoniana) is Diego Armando Maradona. But he´s retired since almost five years. Our others sportsmen right now are the tennis players like Gaudio or Coria and , in my opinion, the best sportsman is Manu. A succesful and a winner. But I like BBall since I was a teenager and watching ESPN in english on Cable TV. How much I´ve enjoyed with Magic, Larry and MJ. I remember myself working on my jumps outdoors while it was raining (or snowing) in the Patagonia.
Greetings for everyone.
¡¡Aguante Manu!!
The most important immigration was during 1880-1920 period. Not only big in net quan y but also because of the percentage (of the total population at that time) it represented.
Then during Spanish Civil War and then during and after WW2.
And around 90% (or more) of argentinians have some european ascendence.
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