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  1. #76
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Right, but the way it is redistributed can be a good investment or a bad investment.

    Would you argue that the government should not provide schools?
    The federal government should not do most of what it does. If you believe in the tenth amendment, you would agree.

  2. #77
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    LOL...

    I don't know if I can...

    Thou shalt not kill.

    Thou shalt have no other God before me.

    Thou shalt not covet they neighbors....

    Thou shalt keep the sabbath holy

    Thou shalt not bear false witness

    Thou shalt not worship graven images/idols

    Well, I'm past half, and starting to have trouble. Probably get all ten if I think about it for a while.

    You didn't mean verbatim did you?
    Surprised you forgot the "honor thy parents" one. And the "thou shalt not commit adultery" one. And the "thou shalt not steal" one.

  3. #78
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Surprised you forgot the "honor thy parents" one. And the "thou shalt not commit adultery" one. And the "thou shalt not steal" one.
    I remember the stealing and using the Lord's name in vain right after submitting, but didn't go back and add it.

  4. #79
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I agree.

    Quite frankly, I don't think *anyone* on either side would disagree with this:

    Wealth = power

    This would strongly imply that increasing concentrations of wealth are about as corrosive to actual democracy as giving too much power to any one branch or sector of government.
    Bingo.

  5. #80
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    When you see that people with a good chunk of money put it on virtual goods like derivatives, energy futures et all, you can see why trickle down is a big fallacy.

  6. #81
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Might as well be at Vegas betting on black.

  7. #82
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    When you see that people with a good chunk of money put it on virtual goods like derivatives, energy futures et all, you can see why trickle down is a big fallacy.
    One fact from the financial crisis sticks in my mind.

    Credit default swaps are voluntarily reported to a non-profit that tracks them (meaning the total amount reported is *less* than what is out there by some unknown amount).

    There are, according to the data they had at the time, $60Tn of these kinds of contracts alone.

  8. #83
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Might as well be at Vegas betting on black.
    That is, in essence, what a credit default swap is, especially a "naked" credit default swap, in which the person making the "bet" has no direct stake in the transaction.

    If you are a large manufacturing company, you might take out some insurance in case one of your important parts subcontractors goes belly up. That is prudent and is more formal insurance.

    Naked credit default swaps is like one guy walking up to his bookie and saying "I'll bet you this guy over there defaults on his debt." In this case however, many financial ins utions and hedge funds were the bookie that can't cover all his bets when it goes south.

    That is exactly what happened at AIG. The government stepped in and backed up the bookie arm of AIG to pay off the marks it had outstanding to companies like Goldman Sachs.

    The really sad thing is that I am not exaggerating, nor is it an inaccurate analogy. Our credit crisis was made much worse by a lot of really bad bookies who called themselves "hedge fund managers".

    All the financial "innovation" boils down to little more than sophisticated bookmaking. The ed part is that the bookies are ing that we might actually require them to hold a bit more cash to cover their bets.

    Boo- ing-hoo.

  9. #84
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    Fabulous Fabrice put together $1B of for Paulsen who bet the was going to , then Fab sold it to investors, it went bad, investors lost, and Paulsen won huge. Fab Fab is adored on Wall St. which nakedly exposes Wall St criminal corruption.

  10. #85
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    The federal government should not do most of what it does. If you believe in the tenth amendment, you would agree.
    You didn't answer my question at all.

    Obviously the federal government should not do most of what it does. We aren't talking about most of what it does, we're talking about public schools.

    Should the government provide public schools?

  11. #86
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    That is, in essence, what a credit default swap is, especially a "naked" credit default swap, in which the person making the "bet" has no direct stake in the transaction.

    If you are a large manufacturing company, you might take out some insurance in case one of your important parts subcontractors goes belly up. That is prudent and is more formal insurance.

    Naked credit default swaps is like one guy walking up to his bookie and saying "I'll bet you this guy over there defaults on his debt." In this case however, many financial ins utions and hedge funds were the bookie that can't cover all his bets when it goes south.

    That is exactly what happened at AIG. The government stepped in and backed up the bookie arm of AIG to pay off the marks it had outstanding to companies like Goldman Sachs.

    The really sad thing is that I am not exaggerating, nor is it an inaccurate analogy. Our credit crisis was made much worse by a lot of really bad bookies who called themselves "hedge fund managers".

    All the financial "innovation" boils down to little more than sophisticated bookmaking. The ed part is that the bookies are ing that we might actually require them to hold a bit more cash to cover their bets.

    Boo- ing-hoo.
    Its worse than that though. Its like GS is not only betting on the Spurs losing to the Lakers, but they have enough power to go out and make sure Tim Duncan gets a nice beat down and two broken legs before game one.

    Goldman Sachs bet against the very same MBS they were selling with CDS they were buying from AIG. The fact that we were made to pay those CDS at 100% as terms of the AIG bailout was absolutely sickening.

  12. #87
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    If that doesn't prove that GS has too much influence then I don't know what will.

  13. #88
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    If that doesn't prove that GS has too much influence then I don't know what will.

  14. #89
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You didn't answer my question at all.

    Obviously the federal government should not do most of what it does. We aren't talking about most of what it does, we're talking about public schools.

    Should the government provide public schools?
    I have stated on several posts the Department of education should have never been formed, and that schools have gone downhill since. The federal government should be completely out of education, as well as so many other things it does.

    Leave schools to the local communities and states.

  15. #90
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    I have stated on several posts the Department of education should have never been formed, and that schools have gone downhill since. The federal government should be completely out of education, as well as so many other things it does.

    Leave schools to the local communities and states.
    Right, so state and local governments should provide public schools. Schools and teachers cost a tremendous amount of money, and all of that money comes from taxes.

    This is a grossly unfair redistribution of wealth from the working class to the benefit of children. See what you say here?

    But the government does not produce any wealth. It only takes it away from others and redistributes it.

    Are you a communist?
    This is wrong, because the investment in the children does produce wealth - it produces literate, capable adults in the future. It benefits the whole society, just like any investment in the infrastructure. I guess if you went to public school you're a communist?

    Anyway, the point is that tax money is beneficial when it's spent back on the society and the people. If it's stolen by the richest 1% and squandered on their grotesque excess, foreign wars, bridges to nowhere, failing banks, golden parachutes, GM, and other assorted bull , everything goes to !

  16. #91
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    "Leave schools to the local communities and states."

    excellent example: your boy dubya's NCLB

    "But the government does not produce any wealth"

    Interstate Highway system, a national defense project, is infrastructure that has produced wealth.

    the national parks have enriched the lives of millions

    the military exists primarily to make the world safe for UCA predations, which certainly makes the the corporations and their capitialists stockholders extremely wealthy.

  17. #92
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    "But the government does not produce any wealth"

    Interstate Highway system, a national defense project, is infrastructure that has produced wealth.

    ---

    the military exists primarily to make the world safe for UCA predations, which certainly makes the the corporations and their capitialists stockholders extremely wealthy.
    At least these are authorized by cons ution, recognized for interstate and national needs.

  18. #93
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Leave schools to the local communities and states.
    You say that as if we do not have a compelling national interest in education of children.

  19. #94
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You say that as if we do not have a compelling national interest in education of children.
    Not at all. I simply believe in the 10th amendment and that we shouldn't have a One-size-fits-all solution at the federal level. I also believe that we don't need layer upon layer of bureaucracy.

    Tell me, why is it a good thing for the federal government to control everything? That seems to be your stance when you support the feds over the states.

  20. #95
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    "One-size-fits-all solution at the federal level."

    straw man, there is no such thing that you love to hate.

  21. #96
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    You say that as if we do not have a compelling national interest in education of children.
    There are many ways to satisfy a compelling national interest. I'm not sure the DOE is the most effective way.

  22. #97
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the DoE, but have been underwhelmed at most of the things it's done. I'm starting to think it shouldn't enforce standards, but merely collect "best practices" and collect info about the state of our schools.

  23. #98
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the DoE, but have been underwhelmed at most of the things it's done. I'm starting to think it shouldn't enforce standards, but merely collect "best practices" and collect info about the state of our schools.
    That's a much better role, IMO. Support, R&D and funding.

  24. #99
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Fussing with the window dressing is futile. Radical, fundamental change is needed. I'd not be grieved to see the end of public education as we know it.

  25. #100
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Just remember.

    There were far few educational problems before the formation of the DoE than after.

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