Reason SA losing to MEM: PAU GASOL TRADE

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Did I say it was Jerry West's fault? Please quote where I said that...

As I told you before, Memphis didn't even shop Gasol. They could've received a much better deal at the time, obviously. Looking at how things turned out 3 seasons later is revisionist history at it's best...

3+ years later this trade is still being discussed...No one wants to move on. However, a month or so back I posted more of less the following, and got no answer. I'll try again.

1) First complaint is the Gasol for Kwame trade shook up the power balance in the west. Well, what about the initial Shaq trade in 2004? Didn't that shake up the power balance in the west? Why is this never mentioned? All the Lakers did was used the pieces left over; Caron to Kwame to Pau.

2) Memphis wanted expiring contracts for Gasol, nothing less. Their goal was to shed payroll and rebuild.

Note: Lakers didn't want to include Marc Gasol in the deal, but they had no choice. Memphis saw him as a legitimate prospect. Currently, he and Z-Bo cost about the same as Pau, but because Marc is young, it's two great players for the price of one. This can catch up to you down the line when you keep a top draft pick and he demands and gets big money. This tends to put you over the salary cap if you want to win. See Andrew Bynum, he's a big reason the Lakers are over the cap.

3) The Lakers gave up nothing to get Gasol. Well, Memphis wouldn't take Lamar Odom because although his salary would fit, he wasn't an expiring contract. See 2)

4) Grizzlies didn't look for a better deal. False, Gasol was on the market for at least a year. I saw a thread at a Lakers board where a fan predicted the trade a year in advance when it was obvious Memphis wanted to ship Pau out.

5) Memphis could have got better players. This is revisionist history because it isn't relevant. Yes they could have. The Grizzlies turned down a package of Pau for Luol Deng. Why? Deng wasn't an expiring contract. See 2).

6) Kwame Brown was a fat expiring contract. He was due to go, I am just surprised it took so long. Maybe because the T-Wolves were willing to trade Garnett to the Lakers, but insisted on getting both Bynum and Odom. They wouldn't take Kwame. In spite of Kobe's "Trade Me" demands, the Lakers held out to trade Kwame and Keep Bynum and Odom.

[ElNono]

LOL Scla

If your franchise's front office wasn't filled with a bunch of inept, dumb s, maybe you wouldn't be down 2-1 against the ing Vancouver Grizzlies

Learn to GM

That's pretty rich from a fan of a team that lost a 1st round series to the D'Antoni Suns...

The problem for our front office is that they were so good, they started to flock to other teams... Happens when you're so successful...

[ElNono]

3+ years later this trade is still being discussed...No one wants to move on. However, a month or so back I posted more of less the following, and got no answer. I'll try again.

I moved on 3+ years ago. This is not what this thread is about. This thread is about how, in hindsight, that trade made Memphis a 'solid' team now... which would somehow justify that the trade was not so one-sided. Which is a fallacious argument.

The reality is that any trade for Gasol in exchange for cap space would have had the same result... and that's very arguable that the Lakers offer was the best they could get for Pau.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I moved on 3+ years ago. This is not what this thread is about. This thread is about how, in hindsight, that trade made Memphis a 'solid' team now... which would somehow justify that the trade was not so one-sided. Which is a fallacious argument.

The reality is that any trade for Gasol in exchange for cap space would have had the same result... and that's very arguable that the Lakers offer was the best they could get for Pau.

I agree the thread topic is a premature celebration. Series is far from over. Glad you moved on. However, in Memphis's case Pau was their franchise player. If you give him up, you have to justify it to your fan base somehow. Getting a Gasol back gives them hope he can fit in and was probably the best PR move Memphis could make. Imagine if the Spurs traded Ginobili but he had a much younger brother with talent they got in return. That wouldn't hurt so much, and plenty of hope for the future, just not now. Trading Pau for other expirings, I am not so certain, there was a lot of player movement after the trade, and I don't think big expirings were involved:

Phoneix pulled the trigger for Shaq. Lakers wouldn't do that.
Dallas went after Kidd. Lakers nixed that already, Bynum would have to go.
Spurs got Kurt Thomas. Granted, not much here.

I don't recall the other West playoff teams making deals, Houston, Utah, New Olreans (I recall a Chandler trade that the league voided, but don't remember which season it was), and Denver. They all did in later seasons though.

[milkshakeballa]

milky sup ?

Longtime no see. Hit me up next time you swing through here, gotta show you how I'm livin, gotta new place

My . U kno I will. U smashin bishes?

[LkrFan]

3+ years later this trade is still being discussed...No one wants to move on. However, a month or so back I posted more of less the following, and got no answer. I'll try again.

1) First complaint is the Gasol for Kwame trade shook up the power balance in the west. Well, what about the initial Shaq trade in 2004? Didn't that shake up the power balance in the west? Why is this never mentioned? All the Lakers did was used the pieces left over; Caron to Kwame to Pau.

2) Memphis wanted expiring contracts for Gasol, nothing less. Their goal was to shed payroll and rebuild.

Note: Lakers didn't want to include Marc Gasol in the deal, but they had no choice. Memphis saw him as a legitimate prospect. Currently, he and Z-Bo cost about the same as Pau, but because Marc is young, it's two great players for the price of one. This can catch up to you down the line when you keep a top draft pick and he demands and gets big money. This tends to put you over the salary cap if you want to win. See Andrew Bynum, he's a big reason the Lakers are over the cap.

3) The Lakers gave up nothing to get Gasol. Well, Memphis wouldn't take Lamar Odom because although his salary would fit, he wasn't an expiring contract. See 2)

4) Grizzlies didn't look for a better deal. False, Gasol was on the market for at least a year. I saw a thread at a Lakers board where a fan predicted the trade a year in advance when it was obvious Memphis wanted to ship Pau out.

5) Memphis could have got better players. This is revisionist history because it isn't relevant. Yes they could have. The Grizzlies turned down a package of Pau for Luol Deng. Why? Deng wasn't an expiring contract. See 2).

6) Kwame Brown was a fat expiring contract. He was due to go, I am just surprised it took so long. Maybe because the T-Wolves were willing to trade Garnett to the Lakers, but insisted on getting both Bynum and Odom. They wouldn't take Kwame. In spite of Kobe's "Trade Me" demands, the Lakers held out to trade Kwame and Keep Bynum and Odom.

Great post. Most non-Laker fans will acknowledge this. Props.

[DMC]

Not better than the threepeat but the Shaq trade allowed the Lakers to reload and repeat. They would have never won another ring with Shaq. The Lakers with Gasol are much better than the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe the year Shaq was traded. Gasol only came as a result of the Shaq trade.

Now you are moving the goalposts. Trading Shaq did not make them better. They went 6 years without seeing another Finals, and 7 without winning one. For most teams that's not a huge window, some have many many more years with zero. However, since you said the Shaq trade made that happen, there needs to be a direct correlation between Shaq being traded and the team becoming a contender. 6 years is too long for that to develop when most contracts are only 4 years max.

LA got it's break from the Pau trade. Without that Kobe was going to probably be in Chicago or NY. The Shaq trade made it worse, not better. If you want to say they had to make it worse in order to get better, they were in the Finals and lost during a season where Kobe was in a legal court more than on the basketball court. That was the distraction. If you cannot win with Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton and Fisher, you simply cannot win. 4 for sure HOFers and one 89%er. I don't care about end of their years, whatever, Duncan is held to the high standards so should they be.

No, that dog won't hunt. Your break came with the collusion deal with Memphis. I give the Lakers props for that, great move. It had nothing to do with Shaq however, as Shaq went on to win another ring with Wade and who? Payton.

[DMC]

LOL Scla

If your franchise's front office wasn't filled with a bunch of inept, dumb s, maybe you wouldn't be down 2-1 against the ing Vancouver Grizzlies

Learn to GM

It's nothing new for California teams to cross lines to get winning teams, just ask Pete Carroll.

[i MAke GOod POlls]

Now you are moving the goalposts. Trading Shaq did not make them better. They went 6 years without seeing another Finals, and 7 without winning one. For most teams that's not a huge window, some have many many more years with zero. However, since you said the Shaq trade made that happen, there needs to be a direct correlation between Shaq being traded and the team becoming a contender. 6 years is too long for that to develop when most contracts are only 4 years max.

LA got it's break from the Pau trade. Without that Kobe was going to probably be in Chicago or NY. The Shaq trade made it worse, not better. If you want to say they had to make it worse in order to get better, they were in the Finals and lost during a season where Kobe was in a legal court more than on the basketball court. That was the distraction. If you cannot win with Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton and Fisher, you simply cannot win. 4 for sure HOFers and one 89%er. I don't care about end of their years, whatever, Duncan is held to the high standards so should they be.

No, that dog won't hunt. Your break came with the collusion deal with Memphis. I give the Lakers props for that, great move. It had nothing to do with Shaq however, as Shaq went on to win another ring with Wade and who? Payton.

Good post except the bolded part.

There's 0% chance that Fisher is going to the Hall of Fame. Lakerfans don't even think he's worthy to get his jersey retired at Staples