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Injuries don't explain playing flat and without enthusiasm and passion. I didn't think Tim's injury was that bad. Maybe it was worse than we all thought.
So....
1. Grizz better than any of us thought
2. Injuries didn't help
3. We were out of sync
Ian will probably be a bust. We all know Matt is. I'd rather have Ian at the end of the bench as the fifth big for the minimum (where Bonner should be) than watching Matt Bonner "guard" Gasol or Zach in the low post
I was just making the point that we had options last year. We all had seen what Bonner has to offer come postseason time, when it matters. That's my point. I was responding to BoneyTee's assertion that we had no options last summer.
Injuries don't explain playing flat and without enthusiasm and passion. I didn't think Tim's injury was that bad. Maybe it was worse than we all thought.
So....
1. Grizz better than any of us thought
2. Injuries didn't help
3. We were out of sync
classic popsucker take.... I bet you graduated laude in the school of popsuckingSo at the time who EXACTLY were we gonna sign besides Bonner. Eventhough we have won 4 les SAN ANTONIO IS STILL A SMALL MARKET. No one wants to come here because we get no tv time. Look the damn CLIPPERS got more tv games than we did. Everyone is whining so much about POPS mistakes so who were we gonna get at the time besides Bonner. Bonner will always be ineffective as long as we don't have adoubleteam threat down low to spread the floor. I don't like Bonner alot but I understand the premise. HORRY would not have been able to score the way he did in Bonner's position with these last few teams. Of course Horry had a better Basketball IQ (something you can't really teach) but his three's and scoring would have dropped with this line up. Not enough spacing.
Pop needs to stay. I mean who would we get to coach. And then when this coach goes 10-72 you will want to run him out of town because he didn't continue 50-60 wins like POP. Pop is the best out there for the Spurs right now. He makes mistakes but ALL coaches do this. But we can't upgrade the team any better if NO ONE wants to play in SAN ANTONIO that's why we get all the good citizens like Tim, David, Sean, Vinny D, Avery, and the like they are loyal, play hard and won't leave for more money. You must have longevity with the team in order to produce Championships....Just ask LEBRON
What caused the Spurs to lose their rhythm and coherence in this series was the Memphis defense--fueled by size, strength, quickness, at ude, and athleticism. They excelled the Spurs in all of those areas.
They just beat a young OKC team by the same method, getting lots more steals and turnovers.
I agree with someone who said Pop referring to injuries was a cop out to the real reason. Manu was still able to put up 33 with a bum arm in one game. Tim had near his average. So those weren't the failures that Memphis exploited.
We had some players like Hill, Bonner, Jefferson, MyDyess etc who couldn't match the Memphis players skillsets.
This!!!!
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
Pop has lost touch with reality--and that is saying a LOT- because Pop was one of the most no-nonsense, no b.s. type of people at one time.
Pop was once a great, great coach...changed the entire Spurs culture by not allowing anyone to be mentally soft and use injuries or refs as an excuse...
and to see him as lost and confused and out of touch as he is now...is pretty pathetic and sad.
This is a young man's game and you probably have a window of time to do your best work and to carry that FIRE inside...it usually happens when you still have youth on your side...but as you age and mellow...you don't burn as hot and you lose desire. You also begin to mature and realize that there are more important things in life than basketball....in some ways this is good..but to win les...you kind of have to be a single-minded asshole with no other life except the game.
The only exception is Phil Jackson...but that is unfair to say because Phil has been gifted the most talent and money and unfair advantages than any other coach in history.
Remember how Jimmy Johnson was when the cowboys were at their peak? What a in' bas and ball-breaker J.Johnson was...but he was so intense that he in' would not lose.
What happened to J.Johnson once he won les and matured a little...he went to Miami and he just did not have the fire anymore....age was his only enemy.
Pop needs to go. The spurs need a YOUNG coach full of fire who is dying to achieve something, dying to prove something, dying to burn the candle at both ends and live,breathe & eat basketball.
Pop just told everyone here that next year will be more of the same.
Sorry, had to add a couple of other reasons why Pop needs to go...
#1) There are things that Pop did that made the spurs 4-time champs and those things are really important....things such as only drafting players with good moral character..and ONLY guys that FIT into the system,etc...in other words---NICE GUYS!
This is, in theory, a really nice thing about the spurs...because the players are good citizens, likeable , solid people....true spurs as we like to say.
The downside to this is that these nice guys (RJ,Hill, Bonner, etc...) are not going to win you les....
Tony Allen was dumped by Boston and was available...but I am pretty sure that Pop would not have Allen due to character issues...but look at Allen's defense and tell me if G.Hill is as tough? Honestly? And how many other free agents have the spurs passed on because they did not fit?
This is what being someplace for too long will do...Pop's original idea of only acquiring character guys was solid...but after a while time goes by...culture changes...young players change....THUGS are now the order of the day...young players with at ude seem to have most of the talent--the so-called ballers are now in vogue.
#2) In this series and in other years...Pop's philosophy when asked what he would tell his players before the game or before a series....
Pop would say, "nothing--they are professionals."
Very sound philosophy---and very commendable.
In contrast...Lionel Hollins was asked the same question and his response was that he tore into players and drilled it into them that the spurs would come out desperate and that they needed to play with more desperation,etc...
Well they did...and maybe those players NEEDED someone to push them, to motivate them,to make them believe they could do it.
I don't think Hollins will do the same thing 15 years from now when he matures.
But for now...it worked....young players respond to a young unproven coach who still has FIRE. A coach who relates to their youth and can spot a young lefty point guard with potential the same way that Hollins was an underrated lefty guard in the NBA at one time.
Pop, for all his class and greatness...has just run his course and the game has, sadly, passed him by.
Hold up AGGIE so its OK for you to give an OPINION but I can't discuss mine. Look I just wanted to get some different perspectives to this than the BULLPOP we were getting from certain fans. It's funny my posts don't seem to be worthy unless you or SENOR answers. I am not saying POP is not at fault here I never have. I feel he should take ALOT of the blame for this, but the players are at fault as well. You are all laying this on POP's doorstep like he was on the court. You all saw the lack of FIRE from the starters just like I did. You tell me why the BENCH was scoring like crazy but the starters couldn't do jack. Where the did Jefferson disappear to? Why the did Hill stop going to the hole. Seems to me the only one's who came to play were Neal, Gino and Splitter. No one seems to put the blame where it should go we were out played by a team that played JUST LIKE the SPURS in our CHAMPIONSHIP years. Pop gets 75% of the blame mainly cause he's the coach and that's how it is. The players need the rest and WE the fans need to know that. I am not attacking your opinion I value it cause you make good points.......I would take my grandmother on a walker, support hose, wheeling an oxygen tank over having Bonner in the line up. But he's there nothing we can do. I still feel no STRONG free agt will come here because of our tv market. You can pay them money but we don't have it. And really no trade bait either. But just MY OPINION just like the above was yours
What opinion do you have? You told us that Pop was right and we were wrong. That's not an opinion. That's you having your head in a hole in the ground.Hold up AGGIE so its OK for you to give an OPINION but I can't discuss mine. Look I just wanted to get some different perspectives to this than the BULLPOP we were getting from certain fans. It's funny my posts don't seem to be worthy unless you or SENOR answers. I am not saying POP is not at fault here I never have. I feel he should take ALOT of the blame for this, but the players are at fault as well. You are all laying this on POP's doorstep like he was on the court. You all saw the lack of FIRE from the starters just like I did. You tell me why the BENCH was scoring like crazy but the starters couldn't do jack. Where the did Jefferson disappear to? Why the did Hill stop going to the hole. Seems to me the only one's who came to play were Neal, Gino and Splitter. No one seems to put the blame where it should go we were out played by a team that played JUST LIKE the SPURS in our CHAMPIONSHIP years. Pop gets 75% of the blame mainly cause he's the coach and that's how it is. The players need the rest and WE the fans need to know that. I am not attacking your opinion I value it cause you make good points.......I would take my grandmother on a walker, support hose, wheeling an oxygen tank over having Bonner in the line up. But he's there nothing we can do. I still feel no STRONG free agt will come here because of our tv market. You can pay them money but we don't have it. And really no trade bait either. But just MY OPINION just like the above was yours
Pop deserves 75% of the blame because he is coach and these are all guys he wanted. It's his roster, his system, and it's been broken for four seasons now.
If confidence, rhythm, and mojo were so important, probably would have been a good idea not to chicken out for that Lakers game and then give a half ass try in the PHX game only to lay down in the last 5 minutes.
That cowardly display by Pop probably had something to do with the excuses coming from the newly built excuse factory in San Antonio.
Pop may as well have just came out and said he was scared to death of the Lakers. That might have had something to do with confidence issues.
oh, BULLPOPPYHold up AGGIE so its OK for you to give an OPINION but I can't discuss mine. Look I just wanted to get some different perspectives to this than the BULLPOP we were getting from certain fans. It's funny my posts don't seem to be worthy unless you or SENOR answers. I am not saying POP is not at fault here I never have. I feel he should take ALOT of the blame for this, but the players are at fault as well. You are all laying this on POP's doorstep like he was on the court. You all saw the lack of FIRE from the starters just like I did. You tell me why the BENCH was scoring like crazy but the starters couldn't do jack. Where the did Jefferson disappear to? Why the did Hill stop going to the hole. Seems to me the only one's who came to play were Neal, Gino and Splitter. No one seems to put the blame where it should go we were out played by a team that played JUST LIKE the SPURS in our CHAMPIONSHIP years. Pop gets 75% of the blame mainly cause he's the coach and that's how it is. The players need the rest and WE the fans need to know that. I am not attacking your opinion I value it cause you make good points.......I would take my grandmother on a walker, support hose, wheeling an oxygen tank over having Bonner in the line up. But he's there nothing we can do. I still feel no STRONG free agt will come here because of our tv market. You can pay them money but we don't have it. And really no trade bait either. But just MY OPINION just like the above was yours
Poppy haven't seen that in a while.....
"The buck stops with Pop" you know he signed off on the RJ trade he signed off on the Scola trade nothing happens on this team without Pops OK. I have to agree with Aggie everyone new that we would not go far with Bonner or Blair in the starting line up and Splitter should have gotten more minutes.Hold up AGGIE so its OK for you to give an OPINION but I can't discuss mine. Look I just wanted to get some different perspectives to this than the BULLPOP we were getting from certain fans. It's funny my posts don't seem to be worthy unless you or SENOR answers. I am not saying POP is not at fault here I never have. I feel he should take ALOT of the blame for this, but the players are at fault as well. You are all laying this on POP's doorstep like he was on the court. You all saw the lack of FIRE from the starters just like I did. You tell me why the BENCH was scoring like crazy but the starters couldn't do jack. Where the did Jefferson disappear to? Why the did Hill stop going to the hole. Seems to me the only one's who came to play were Neal, Gino and Splitter. No one seems to put the blame where it should go we were out played by a team that played JUST LIKE the SPURS in our CHAMPIONSHIP years. Pop gets 75% of the blame mainly cause he's the coach and that's how it is. The players need the rest and WE the fans need to know that. I am not attacking your opinion I value it cause you make good points.......I would take my grandmother on a walker, support hose, wheeling an oxygen tank over having Bonner in the line up. But he's there nothing we can do. I still feel no STRONG free agt will come here because of our tv market. You can pay them money but we don't have it. And really no trade bait either. But just MY OPINION just like the above was yours
You are also right that certain players did not show up but they did the same thing last year....Bonner sucked, RJ sucked, Blair didn't play, Hill got abused by Nash..etc.......But as in life.....would have could have should have....
Oh Hill and Bonner are Pops two favorite players..lol
Nicely said. However I would NEVER say POP was a great coach. He was in fact a rat, who single handedly fired a coach only to take the team over himself and tank the 97' draft. SU IOUS...... Not only that... HE SINGLE HANDEDLY rode Duncan to the high life. Much like the other dirtbag, Phil Jackson.
Haha funny but true
You're right about the players themselves needing to shoulder some of the blame. However in watching that series, it just appeared that they ran into a better, more skilled, more hungry team. This Spurs team has several limitations and various flaws. All Memphis did was expose them. Duncan and Dice cannot be blamed because they got old. Blair cannot help that he's 6'5". Bonner isn't suddenly going to develop quick feet, long arms or great hops. RJ, on the other hand, well some things just cannot be explained. However even he, didn't ask to come the S.A. Dude was a passive player before, the Spurs should've known that.Hold up AGGIE so its OK for you to give an OPINION but I can't discuss mine. Look I just wanted to get some different perspectives to this than the BULLPOP we were getting from certain fans. It's funny my posts don't seem to be worthy unless you or SENOR answers. I am not saying POP is not at fault here I never have. I feel he should take ALOT of the blame for this, but the players are at fault as well. You are all laying this on POP's doorstep like he was on the court. You all saw the lack of FIRE from the starters just like I did. You tell me why the BENCH was scoring like crazy but the starters couldn't do jack. Where the did Jefferson disappear to? Why the did Hill stop going to the hole. Seems to me the only one's who came to play were Neal, Gino and Splitter. No one seems to put the blame where it should go we were out played by a team that played JUST LIKE the SPURS in our CHAMPIONSHIP years. Pop gets 75% of the blame mainly cause he's the coach and that's how it is. The players need the rest and WE the fans need to know that. I am not attacking your opinion I value it cause you make good points.......I would take my grandmother on a walker, support hose, wheeling an oxygen tank over having Bonner in the line up. But he's there nothing we can do. I still feel no STRONG free agt will come here because of our tv market. You can pay them money but we don't have it. And really no trade bait either. But just MY OPINION just like the above was yours
Where Pop bears the brunt of the blame is moreso for his role of President, el Heffe' and grand poobah of all basketball-related matters. He assembled this roster. He's the one that signed off on the RJ extension. He's responsible for re-upping the classic playoff underachiever and chief butt-boy, Bonner to a new 4-year contract, for years of playoff failure. And the biggest sin of all, knowing the Duncan is on the decline, Pop sent his future HOF bigman out to battle with an undersized, short-handed group of bigs. Essentially, he put Duncan into an unfortunate situation where, with very little support, he was forced to continue in his role as team's best big, on both ends of the floor. Thus forcing him into having the same level of responsibility at 35, as he did when he was at 25.
Pop, as a head coach deserves blame, but Pop the basketball executive deservers so much more.
He didn't notice that they started to lose their rhythm back in early March, long before the injuries? That is a bit of a concern.
ing Pop using injuries as an excuse for his ups
There's nothing to be gained by airing out all the ills of the Spurs during the last month and in the playoffs, as far as I can see he is towing the company line, something everyone does. In the next couple of months, lockout notwithstanding, we will get a clearer picture of what went wrong and how they will go about fixing it. Coaching was a problem as far as to how certain players were used or not used, and really the staff did an excellent job throughout the year, it's the last month where everyone lost focus and direction and even though injuries didn't help, some decisions were really head scratchers.
Last edited by pjjrfan; 05-01-2011 at 10:39 PM.
the frustrating part is not who's at fault, it's the fact that there will be little change just like '08, '09 and '10. Teams get better and the Spurs get older and less rounded.
If Memphis wins it all, sure that will lessen the blow a bit, but it still won't change the fact that the Spurs were dominated by a team in the crunch time. You can "what if" all you want about inuries and lucky shots (the Spurs had a couple of their own) - the Spurs still had a chance to compete and they couldn't.
It's the same story - if this or that would have happened, if there's a minor change to the lineup, etc. The FO and the fans will concede that the Spurs organization is doing the best they can and have exceeded expectations already.
I've become used to the medicrity, but it doesn't mean that I have to like it. Spurs have won just one playoff series in the past 3 years. The Spurs have not improved since 2005. Pop will not win another ring - if you're ok with that, carry on with the support.
thisssssssssssssaggie are you really gonna come at me with anthony tolliver, and ian. Ian couldn't stay healthy for three years. He goes to dallas and isn't even the third option there. And where is tolliver at now. Playing for who's starting line up, or second line up. is he even playing. Understand what i have been saying....we have not signed a viable allstar back up since oberto. See the grizzlies have gasol and zbo, lakers have gasol and odom and bynum, the bulls have boozer and noah, boston has garnett and combo of the o'neals and big baby.....you see where i am going with this....why is orlando out of round one .....cause they got rid of gortat now no extra size next to howard. Without another allstar or damn good big next to tim we have nothing. I am not just a bandwagon fan here. Been a spurs fan since 1975. If we get a defensive sf, and a rebounding scoring center we are right back in it.
Splitter went without a training camp and got hurt twice. He played great but offensivly he needs work. I agree he should have been on the court, but we don't know how he was in practice throughout the year. We can say what we want but we are not the coach
Totally shocked to hear this coming from you Senor. Your clamoring for an undersized Tolliver who couldn't make the Spurs team but is a back up for a lottery team. And still wishing that the Mavs 3rd string center was still a Spur. Wow!Bingo!
Bingo!
And Bingo...again!
It's funny how these Pop-apologists seem to think that that raggedly frontline, that the Spurs rolled out there this season, was either good enough to contend or that the team was strictly handicapped and couldn't have acquired anyone else. If Pop pissed on their shoes and told them it was raining, they would reach for an umbrella.
The most frustrating part to all this is that the Spurs have needed more size ever since the balance of power shifted to the Fakers in the much-balleyhooed Pau Gasol trade. That was 2008. That gave the Spurs 3 years to try and figure out a way to increase their frontline size and length, as Duncan marched toward the end of his career. However, that was never Pop's priority nor his intention.
Yes, there were options. There are reserve big men on the various NBA benches that they could've targeted via trade or through the draft. Yet, they did nothing.
They had Drew Gooden two seasons ago. Sure he was a black hole, but he was physical, servicable and could rebound and score the basketball from the low-post. He wasn't favored and was allowed to walk.
In the 2008 NBA draft, after losing out their preferred choice, Nicolas Batum, the Spurs had a chance to draft the young, athletic forward Darrell Arthur, but elected to go small with George Hill.
Ian Mahinmi was an underdeveloped player, who suffered some unfortunate injuries during his first year or two, that hindered his development and opportunities. However he worked hard and wanted to stay with the Spurs. He had size, athleticism, could rebound, and defend the rim. Those types of skills that are not currently on this roster. The type of skills that this frontline could've sorely used against a very physical team like the Grizzlies. Much like Splitter, he was never given any consistent court time, when healthy. I don't give a about the perception of him when he was here, the fact is no one saw him play on a consistent basis, so therefore no one can say he didn't deserve a roster spot. The guy showed flashes of abilities that the Spurs could've used to their advantage. People can talk all they want about how he didn't fit here, however I believe he wasn't wanted because he didn't fit Pop's philosophy of small-ball. The Spurs front office arrogantly allowed the guy to leave in free agency, as though he were some undrafted free agent. In fact, after allowing Ian to walk, Pop proudly proclaimed the Spurs have enough bigs. Huh? Frankly, I would've rather preferred going into battle with the young combo of Mahinmi and Splitter versus Blair and Bonner. He had his chance, but he thought that re-upping Bonner was the way to go. By elected to retain Bonner over Mahinmi, he decided smaller. perimeter-oriented offense was better.
No one forced Pop into small-ball, he elected to do so in an effort to try and keep up with changing league trends. I'm sorry, it doesn't work. The tenets of basketball success have remained the same for over 50 years. Successful teams are built from the inside-out - not the other way around. Pop should be the first to know this, after all he won 4 championships with that formula. In fact, what team has won with a small-ball, perimeter-oriented, attack? None.
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