KG (almost same age as Duncan) dropped 28pts 18rbs tonight, Duncan couldn't do 1/2

[jhuan16]

Duncan can score 40 if Bosh is guarding him.

[Spurs da champs]

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Nowadays, it oftentimes makes sense for Duncan to guard centers (not against true centers with skill, though), because of his declining mobility, but he's really a four and a half. The difference between him and guys like Garnett, Nowitzki and Gasol is, their teams never asked those guys to act as full time centers. In the case of Garnett and Nowitzki, they were never asked to act as even part time centers. They played far easier minutes. That's why Nowitzki in particular hasn't declined. Nothing he ever did lends itself to physical deterioration.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, Duncan has drastically outperformed Garnett since he became a Celtic. Even this season, with Garnett supposedly bouncing back and Duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things Garnett has on Duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.

Tim is really 7'0. Draftexpress confirms this but I agree with what you say Tim is really a hybrid forward-center and he's a banger. KG is soft in comparison.

[TDfan2007]

Tim has played many more games with playoffs and Spurs don't go through Tim that much and that consistently anymore. Duncan is the greatest power forward ever and is immune to criticism.

This. The Spurs didn't go to Tim in the Memphis series, especially after game 3 when he turned his ankle again. It's a shame really. This whole season's been a complete waste thanks to VERY poorly-timed injuries to our two best players. If Tim's ankle is 100% and Manu's elbow doesn't get sprained in a freak accident type of injury we beat Memphis. Not sure about OKC though...they would've been a match up nightmare for us.

[Budkin]

Duncan had about 10 times the playoff games as Garnett... those runs add up.

[ffadicted]

KG has been better then duncan since he returned from the injury imo, on both ends of the floor. Duncan can still post up numbers every once in a while and he started strong last year, but like people have said, much more wear and tear.

[jermaine]

It's sad to see how much better KG right now then TD, pathetic almost. TD couldn't even pull out 1 20pt game in the playoffs while getting serious minutes, and don't talk about touches, when he gets the ball he gets bullied

It's because Tim has 3 more championship rings weighing him down. While TIM was playin in the playoffs(win or lose) KG was at home watching Timmy in anger cuz he could never be him.

[spurtech09]

how many nba les does kg and how many does tim duncan have.....

[Jace]

It IS sad, but Duncan has had more wear and tear plus some guys just age better than others. Tim never had the best body, he was never the greatest athlete, Garnett on the other hand is a physical freak

[Hoops Czar]

how many nba les does kg and how many does tim duncan have.....

Since 2008? You can Duncan's championships on your knuckle. Don't discount KG's years with Minnesota. Odds are TD wouldn't have had much success playing for a dreadful franchise with a bunch of dead heads. Give KG a supporting cast and all of a sudden its 2 finals appearances in 3 years.

[ohmwrecker]

Also, Rondo's elbow popped out so he rubbed a little dirt and spit on it and played with one goddamn arm.

Manu gets a bruise, sits out a game, then plays with some kind of robo-limb taking a whole game to figure out he can shoot one handed free throws.

How the did the Spurs win so many games?!

[Thomas82]

because duncan does center-like things, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, duncan has drastically outperformed garnett since he became a celtic. Even this season, with garnett supposedly bouncing back and duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things garnett has on duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.

+1

[Brutalis]

KG has athleticism, and has his whole career. Which comes in handy when you get old. Duncan never had that luxury.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Marc Gasol, perhaps the best post defensive centers in the league right now, versus, Chris Bosh, one of the softest bigs in the league.

That is the difference. Lets see KG try that against Marc Gasol then there will be room to talk.

[GSH]

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years.

50 lbs. may have been a stretch, but 40 isn't. I said "a lot of his career". Garnett played for a lot of years at about 220-225. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Go back and look at old pictures, and old listings. He was skinny. Tim bulked up for those center-like assignments, and was playing around 265 - until he lost weight to take some of the load off his knees. It's not hard to figure out. He's around 250 now, and he lost around 15 pounds after the tendinosis was diagnosed. People (and listings) can't agree on how tall they are, much less their weights. Look at some photos of them together. Different body type. Saying they are almost the same is silly.

That's just arguing over trivia, though. The hard minutes (and hours, and seasons) Tim spent banging with the giants took its toll. Anyone who has followed the Spurs knows that. Garnett has played a different game. He's gotten a lot of his blocks from the weak side, not facing up centers. It's just a different game.

As for "generation"? There's no law on how it's defined. If someone wants to define it as a 7 year stretch, I guess they can. I think that if two players overlap for half of their respective careers, it's legitimate to compare them. Luc Longley was part of the Jordan era. (He was on 3 of the Bulls' championship teams.) He was drafted just 4 years before Garnett.

So let's see... Vlade Divac was drafted just 3 years before Shaq. They have to be part of the same generation, don't they? And Duncan was drafted 5 years after Shaq, so they are part of the same generation. But Duncan and Divac aren't part of the same generation, because they are 8 years apart? If that helps you sell your story, I guess go with what you know.

Whatever. When things get that ridiculously stupid, they just bore me. It's like kids arguing over whether Batman could beat up Aquaman. I didn't like those arguments when I was 10.

[TD 21]

Tim is really 7'0. Draftexpress confirms this but I agree with what you say Tim is really a hybrid forward-center and he's a banger. KG is soft in comparison.

I presume you're referring to their listing him as 6-11 barefoot, which would make him 7-0 in shoes (most players listings are in shoes). But he's not a full 7-0. He's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett and Gasol.

That's exactly what he is; a hybrid forward-center, who combines center and guard like skills. That's why, among other reasons, he was always better than O'Neal and Garnett. O'Neal is all power, Garnett is all finesse; Duncan is the perfect mix of the two.

[TD 21]

50 lbs. may have been a stretch, but 40 isn't. I said "a lot of his career". Garnett played for a lot of years at about 220-225. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Go back and look at old pictures, and old listings. He was skinny. Tim bulked up for those center-like assignments, and was playing around 265 - until he lost weight to take some of the load off his knees. It's not hard to figure out. He's around 250 now, and he lost around 15 pounds after the tendinosis was diagnosed. People (and listings) can't agree on how tall they are, much less their weights. Look at some photos of them together. Different body type. Saying they are almost the same is silly.

That's just arguing over trivia, though. The hard minutes (and hours, and seasons) Tim spent banging with the giants took its toll. Anyone who has followed the Spurs knows that. Garnett has played a different game. He's gotten a lot of his blocks from the weak side, not facing up centers. It's just a different game.

As for "generation"? There's no law on how it's defined. If someone wants to define it as a 7 year stretch, I guess they can. I think that if two players overlap for half of their respective careers, it's legitimate to compare them. Luc Longley was part of the Jordan era. (He was on 3 of the Bulls' championship teams.) He was drafted just 4 years before Garnett.

So let's see... Vlade Divac was drafted just 3 years before Shaq. They have to be part of the same generation, don't they? And Duncan was drafted 5 years after Shaq, so they are part of the same generation. But Duncan and Divac aren't part of the same generation, because they are 8 years apart? If that helps you sell your story, I guess go with what you know.

Whatever. When things get that ridiculously stupid, they just bore me. It's like kids arguing over whether Batman could beat up Aquaman. I didn't like those arguments when I was 10.

I'm aware they have different body types. My point is, though, that despite their different body types and style of play, one is not some physically overwhelming player and the other some skeleton. Garnett is actually the taller player, at 7-1 and has played at (supposedly) 253 for years now. If you don't believe he's 7-1 (it's been said many times), just YouTube Duncan-Garnett '01. Click on part one and watch the first five seconds.

Duncan had a few years, roughly 05-08, where he had noticeably put on weight. But if you go back and look at him in his younger days and look at him now, he's a long, skinny guy, just like Garnett. Only his team is asking him to act as if he's some traditional center and then when he get's physically overwhelmed by a Howard, Bogut, Bynum, Milicic or M. Gasol, people go "he's old and washed up". When in actuality, that has more to do with the fact that he's just not a true center. You don't see the Celtics or Mavs asking Garnett or Nowitzki to guard those types and the Lakers try to limit Gasol's minutes on them.

I have no idea what you're referring to with this "generation" talk.

[Spurs da champs]

I presume you're referring to their listing him as 6-11 barefoot, which would make him 7-0 in shoes (most players listings are in shoes). But he's not a full 7-0. He's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett and Gasol.

That's exactly what he is; a hybrid forward-center, who combines center and guard like skills. That's why, among other reasons, he was always better than O'Neal and Garnett. O'Neal is all power, Garnett is all finesse; Duncan is the perfect mix of the two.

Well the thing is with Tim he always has his head down in a slouching position realize that 2. When he stands straight up tall like KG does all the time I promise you Tim is at least 7'0. I'm starting to think Tim has back or neck problems.

But good point, couldn't of said it any better.

Tho What you say about those big centers, Tim doesn't get overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center, but because he's old & not as quick as he was before.

Tim would've of had all of those scrubs you mentioned for breakfast back in his prime, especially Howard Tim towers over him.

[Sean Cagney]

Hope whoever wrote this is seeing his 1-10 tonight! LIGHTS OUT!

[Agloco]

You guys are acting a fool. Without KG, Boston doesn't compete.

And give credit where it's due. KG has aged better than TD has.... doesn't mean he's better overall in terms of career ranking, but he's better right now.... he's meaner and more motivated too, es.

For most of his career, Duncan outweighed Garnett by at least 50 pounds. Garnett played a finesse game, and didn't spend every night getting beaten on by the biggest guy on the opposing team. It took a toll on Tim's knees. And when Tim played through some injuries, to help the team win, it took even more of a toll on his knees.

Duncan has just under 7,000 minutes in playoff games. Garnett has just under 4,000. That's A LOT more wear and tear.

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Most of all... what's your ing point? There's no rule that says Boston can't take on one new fan. Go watch Garnett.

/thread

[Spurtacus]

Rofl

kg 1-10

[J_Paco]

Since 2008? You can Duncan's championships on your knuckle. Don't discount KG's years with Minnesota. Odds are TD wouldn't have had much success playing for a dreadful franchise with a bunch of dead heads. Give KG a supporting cast and all of a sudden its 2 finals appearances in 3 years.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Tim Duncan: 4 championships
Kevin Garnett: 1 championship
Cleveland Cavaliers: O championships

Wow, Kevin's 4 points, on 1/10 shooting, and 10 rebounds really was great. Give either guy two or more days of rest and they'll perform well. Give them less then that and they'll perform average or worse. That's what happens with age and injury. Or do people already forget Garnett dragging one leg around against L.A. in the Finals last June???

[TD 21]

Well the thing is with Tim he always has his head down in a slouching position realize that 2. When he stands straight up tall like KG does all the time I promise you Tim is at least 7'0. I'm starting to think Tim has back or neck problems.

But good point, couldn't of said it any better.

Tho What you say about those big centers, Tim doesn't get overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center, but because he's old & not as quick as he was before.

Tim would've of had all of those scrubs you mentioned for breakfast back in his prime, especially Howard Tim towers over him.

True. He might be 7-0 in shoes, but even if he is, he's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, etc. If he were of equal height to them or an inch smaller than some, it wouldn't be noticeable. I don't think he has back or neck problems, I just think he's not particularly comfortable standing out. And what stands out more than a guy who's around 7-0 tall? O'Neal, on the other hand, relishes being that big.

Defensively, he get's overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center. Those guys are bigger and stronger and they know they can overpower him, which is why all of them aggressively take it at him. Offensively, when he was younger, he'd have destroyed these types, by first hitting a few jumpers and then, once they start respecting that, beating them off the dribble. But now, he lacks the elevation to shoot as well from mid range and the quickness and explosion to beat them off the dribble. And obviously, he's not strong enough to back them down, or long enough to shoot up over the top of them. So he really has no advantage over them, which is why he struggles with them.

That's why this team needs to, in addition to starting Splitter next to him, bring in, if not a true center, at least a third center sized, rotation caliber big, so that Duncan doesn't have to be the primary defender against these types.

[TJastal]

True. He might be 7-0 in shoes, but even if he is, he's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, etc. If he were of equal height to them or an inch smaller than some, it wouldn't be noticeable. I don't think he has back or neck problems, I just think he's not particularly comfortable standing out. And what stands out more than a guy who's around 7-0 tall? O'Neal, on the other hand, relishes being that big.

Defensively, he get's overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center. Those guys are bigger and stronger and they know they can overpower him, which is why all of them aggressively take it at him. Offensively, when he was younger, he'd have destroyed these types, by first hitting a few jumpers and then, once they start respecting that, beating them off the dribble. But now, he lacks the elevation to shoot as well from mid range and the quickness and explosion to beat them off the dribble. And obviously, he's not strong enough to back them down, or long enough to shoot up over the top of them. So he really has no advantage over them, which is why he struggles with them.

That's why this team needs to, in addition to starting Splitter next to him, bring in, if not a true center, at least a third center sized, rotation caliber big, so that Duncan doesn't have to be the primary defender against these types.

Duncan may be a shade shorter than Garnett (and the others mentioned) but his standing reach (which is superior to all of them I would be willing to bet) more than makes up for that inch he's giving up. And the only reason he's been getting bullied around is because he lost weight to take the stress off the knees. You're absolutely right though that he cannot guard these big hogs of the league like Bynum/Gasol/Howard/Oden/etc playing at 240. He needs some help.

[Nathan89]

This thread.

The guy went 1-10 the next game because he is a jump-shooter. A damn good one but Tim is still a better option for the Spurs than him.

[mosdef17]

It's quite a stupid argument to go by one big game that Garnett happened to have in the Playoffs, using one game a sample size or example in any situation is irrational. The simple answer as to why KG will age better then Tim is that his body type is more receptive to it. KG is more of an athlete, his wiry build will obviously adapt better to ageing.