Reproductive rights

[CuckingFunt]

I agree my communications skills are lacking. You eventually understand my intent though, right?

Crystal clear.

[LnGrrrR]

Disagree. taxation is cons utional, and in the cons ution is the bill of rights.

Then if taxation is legal, then what Congress votes on to spend taxes, including supporting those who have children they can't support, is also legal.

Agree or disagree?

Ever hear of the 10th amendment? Why is the federal government taking responsibility over things clearly left to the stats and lower levels, by our highest law?

So you'd be ok with it if the state gov't supported parents with children they couldn't afford, just not the federal gov't?

[LnGrrrR]

I am only painting the broad strokes. The finer details? Who knows. Not worried about making this plan 100% by my self.

I would say that if you're suggesting a program whereby the gov't forces sterilization on the population, determining who would perform the sterilization is kinda a "broad stroke".

[ElNono]

I'm just wondering since you're such a maverick why don't you just stop paying a percentage of your taxes, and when the IRS drags your 'libertarian' ass in front of a judge, you tell him what you really think... you know, the bit about not getting your money's worth, black surgeons, and the Nazi-style social class cleansing...

Now that I think about, I would even pay to watch such an encounter

[FromWayDowntown]

See, I think Cobra is missing a beautiful opportunity to further self-sustenance and the libertarian spirit by urging social cleansing instead of modestly proposing that those who depend on upon the government for their sustenance take advantage of the ready-made food source that their copious reproduction affords. Swiftly, I think, the drain on public resources could be eradicated.

[MannyIsGod]

He entertains so consistently that you really do have to wonder at times if WC is a troll. Its too god damn good sometimes but the fact that its so good also works against him being a troll. Who the could dream this up on a regular basis?

I would actually be relieved if we ever found out he was a troll.

[Winehole23]

Its too god damn good sometimes...

[Blake]

I agree my communications skills are lacking. You eventually understand my intent though, right?

Communication is not plural.

Hope that helps.

[greyforest]

This is better than ether! The libertarian who wants to limit reproductive rights.



If WC is a troll, the person doing it is DAMN good.

i think it has to be a troll account. he doesn't quote many of the logical arguments or questions (like mine) and instead just says everyone is flaming him while asserting superiority

[Wild Cobra]

So you'd be ok with it if the state gov't supported parents with children they couldn't afford, just not the federal gov't?

It's one of the best unused tools we have. 50 states able to attempt things in different ways. Eventually, states would adopt the methods that work best. When you have one program mandated by the government, you have far less possibility of finding a good solution to things.

If the state is doing enough things I disagree with, I can move to a sate that does things the way I agree with. We also all lose diversity when the federal government picks the one-size-fits-all solution.

Wouldn't states rights be better? Some states would be more generous than others, in the process have higher tax rates. You liberals can move to these higher tax states since you like higher taxes. Sound good?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm just wondering since you're such a maverick why don't you just stop paying a percentage of your taxes, and when the IRS drags your 'libertarian' ass in front of a judge, you tell him what you really think... you know, the bit about not getting your money's worth, black surgeons, and the Nazi-style social class cleansing...

Now that I think about, I would even pay to watch such an encounter

Because I'm not an anarchist, which you seem to think a libertarian should be.

I don't disagree with the governments right to tax. I just disagree with the amount on my money they tax. I hate paying in excess of $10/hr in taxes.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think you're a bigot just because of this thread.

I know, and you are wrong about applying that word to me. Hatred or intolerance of a group? I guess I am a bigot when it comes to gang members, or Islamic extremists. I hate certain individuals for the character, but not because of any group they belong to. Saying I hate people because of their financial situation is flat out wrong. Saying I hate blacks because I rail against quota systems is wrong. I pity some people of some groups, but what I feel is mostly "tough love."

Boutons is a good example of a bigot, the way he is against republicans.

For one thing, I don't see that ever happening.

Maybe not 90%, but we ore right now, in a economic slide that is taking us that direction. In my opinion, we need everyone

For another, I never suggested that we allow or encourage people of any standing become completely dependent upon taxpayer dollars. However, I see a solution not in assuming the worst of impoverished/marginalized communities and putting our efforts into either reducing their numbers or punishing them for breeding, but rather in investing in the social welfare (welfare, not Welfare) of our poorer communities so that hopefully within a few generations the problems you have identified are on the decline. Reducing the options available to already disadvantaged communities is seldom a useful endeavor.

I agree with a hand up approach. However, that's not what we are doing.

[Wild Cobra]

Communication is not plural.

Hope that helps.

LOL...

I'll still screw it up.

[Wild Cobra]

i think it has to be a troll account. he doesn't quote many of the logical arguments or questions (like mine) and instead just says everyone is flaming him while asserting superiority

Yes, yes, yes.

I can be an arrogant ass.

[clambake]

you forgot leech and liar.

[LnGrrrR]

It's one of the best unused tools we have. 50 states able to attempt things in different ways. Eventually, states would adopt the methods that work best. When you have one program mandated by the government, you have far less possibility of finding a good solution to things.

If the state is doing enough things I disagree with, I can move to a sate that does things the way I agree with. We also all lose diversity when the federal government picks the one-size-fits-all solution.

Wouldn't states rights be better? Some states would be more generous than others, in the process have higher tax rates. You liberals can move to these higher tax states since you like higher taxes. Sound good?

Ok, that's consistent.

[CuckingFunt]

I know, and you are wrong about applying that word to me. Hatred or intolerance of a group? I guess I am a bigot when it comes to gang members, or Islamic extremists. I hate certain individuals for the character, but not because of any group they belong to. Saying I hate people because of their financial situation is flat out wrong. Saying I hate blacks because I rail against quota systems is wrong. I pity some people of some groups, but what I feel is mostly "tough love."

Though I know it has been pointed out countless times before, let me attempt to make it clear once more.

No one here thinks you are a bigot for, as you put it, railing against quota systems. For that, you are merely ignorant of how affirmative action programs actually work.

The reason that the whole black surgeon thing has gotten you the label of bigot 'round these parts is that it highlights the fact you assume, based on nothing other than skin color, that black surgeons are more likely to have gotten where they are based on affirmative action, and therefore less likely to have done so based on academic merit, than anyone else who wasn't black. Your su ion, based upon your own words, does not apply to Asian surgeons, female surgeons, or any other variety of med student who may have gotten a leg up thanks to quotas. Nor does it apply to rich white male surgeons who may have gotten through med school thanks to Daddy's money.

Again, unfounded su ion alone does not make you a bigot. It makes you paranoid. However, when your unfounded su ion applies only to members of a certain race, based solely on the color of their skin, well... welcome to bigot-town.

[Wild Cobra]

Though I know it has been pointed out countless times before, let me attempt to make it clear once more.

No one here thinks you are a bigot for, as you put it, railing against quota systems. For that, you are merely ignorant of how affirmative action programs actually work.

Wrong.

I am aware of how affirmative action was originally intended, and how it later became a quota system. It is only the quota system aspect I am against.

The reason that the whole black surgeon thing has gotten you the label of bigot 'round these parts is that it highlights the fact you assume, based on nothing other than skin color, that black surgeons are more likely to have gotten where they are based on affirmative action, and therefore less likely to have done so based on academic merit, than anyone else who wasn't black. Your su ion, based upon your own words, does not apply to Asian surgeons, female surgeons, or any other variety of med student who may have gotten a leg up thanks to quotas. Nor does it apply to rich white male surgeons who may have gotten through med school thanks to Daddy's money.

Please...

I know you aren't that stupid. Why are you applying reason that isn't true against me? Are you bigoted against me?

I simply used an example with the word "if." You can assign all the incorrect meaning to my words you want. I'm sorry you have such a closed mind and are incapable of thinking outside the box. My example was to show the harm affirmative action does. It does not mean I think blacks are inferior. It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not, but to assign such meaning to my words.

Go yourself .

I wonder.

What type of evil are you?

I have explained that several times, yet you are unwilling to give me the benefit of doubt. How is it you can be so ing positive that I am as you assume. Do you have such a pathetic life, you have to try to make others look worse?

[clambake]

lol

[ChumpDumper]

Care to show us the statistics showing what harm black surgeons have done, WC?

[Wild Cobra]

Care to show us the statistics showing what harm black surgeons have done, WC?

I never said they did.

[ChumpDumper]

I never said they did.

So you're not saying affirmative action does any harm then.


OK.

[Wild Cobra]

So you're not saying affirmative action does any harm then.


OK.

I'm saying that the quota system within affirmative action makes too many people wonder if blacks, and yes, any group who is included in quota systems, are the best choice when choosing a professional.

I'm saying it's these people who are part of the chosen in the quota system, as a group, who are harmed because some people wonder if they made it by merit, or because lesser qualified were needed to make the targeted numbers.

Like it or not, this sentiment is out there.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Today, quota systems for blacks are endorsed by politically correct racists. We don't have the same degree of problems as the past. By definition, a racists is someone who believes one race is superior to another. Endorsing quota systems for blacks is saying they are not capable of competing on a level playing field.

Even if you don't agree with me, there are many who do. If I were black, I would be offended by the notion I needed an unfair advantage over my white peers. I don't see how any self respecting black agree with quota systems.

[CuckingFunt]

Wrong.

I am aware of how affirmative action was originally intended, and how it later became a quota system. It is only the quota system aspect I am against.

Okay, then, how did it later become a quota system? Specifically.

Please...

I know you aren't that stupid. Why are you applying reason that isn't true against me? Are you bigoted against me?

I simply used an example with the word "if." You can assign all the incorrect meaning to my words you want. I'm sorry you have such a closed mind and are incapable of thinking outside the box. My example was to show the harm affirmative action does. It does not mean I think blacks are inferior. It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not, but to assign such meaning to my words.

Go yourself .

I wonder.

What type of evil are you?

I have explained that several times, yet you are unwilling to give me the benefit of doubt. How is it you can be so ing positive that I am as you assume. Do you have such a pathetic life, you have to try to make others look worse?

The benefit of the doubt? You realize this is a discussion forum, right, and that all I have to go by is the words you've said? You mentioned once, without provocation, that you don't trust black surgeons because of your concerns about the quotas supposedly encouraged by affirmative action programs. Upon your position's immediate ridicule, you made several attempts to justify your comments. And every time this issue has been subsequently raised, you have again tried to clarify your initial remarks in such a way to make yourself come across as anything other than blatantly, and specifically, prejudiced against black people. Let me be clear, I have nothing against you personally. If ANY of these attempts to justify your position had been successful, I would gladly concede that you are not a bigot. Fact is, they haven't been. You say that your fear of black surgeons is rooted in something other than an assumption that black people are less likely to make it as surgeons based on academic merit and, that's great, but I so far don't believe you. Sorry.

Now, of course, you're right in suggesting I could give you the benefit of the doubt. I could read the words/comments that I feel are bigoted and I could tell myself that, hey, surely that Wild Cobra guy didn't mean that the way I thought he meant it. But, why on earth would I? In this format especially? Not my problem you are apparently completely inept in clearly communicating your own thoughts and beliefs.






Also, . Seriously, your personal attack required a late edit after you worked up the balls to call me a ?

[ChumpDumper]

So, affirmative action inflames prejudice in fearful, weak-minded people like Wild Cobra.

OK.