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  1. 10-14-2011 #76
    Ashy Larry
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koolaid_Man
    heard all that bull before...gotta be on the best team, gotta have the best record, gotta make your teammates better, your team gotta make the playoffs...if he's the mutha ing best player then he's the best player...that's it...

    Like I said the goal posts are moved if you're part of the media and voting for Kobe......Larry Bird was so disgusted at the Kobe treatment that he threatened to give all his back....

    you've posted nothing new..the fact that you start out by saying he was the best but but but...is all I need to hear....You've said nothing to dispute my claims that Kobe held the NBA up post MJ...He's been consistently the best most exciting most driven and the NBA's top draw and money maker and yet you quibble about a tenth of points to prove your shotty case. Good or bad if it wasn't for him the NBA wouldn't have the global acclaim that it enjoys today...

    As long as Kobe's peers and GM's around the league agree with me..and I've posted enough proof that they do...I feel vindicated...you can spout that goal post moving bull the media fabricated years ago all you want...I actually wish my hadn't won it in 2008 because 2008 was nothing but a token...give 2008 to Chris Paul - I'm sure you can make a case for Paul anyway Ashy...in fact Kobe should have none...it's a Media award and it's unfortunate that the coaches and players can't vote otherwise Kobe would have won it every year as I've stated and I don't think there's no disputing that.

    You'd lose money if you bet he wouldn't have won it had he been judged by GM's, coaches, and his peers from 2002-2010...real players know what's up...


    that's it and that's all...

    so you honestly believe that the best player in the league who didn't lead his team to the playoffs in 2005 should have received the MVP trophy ?????......


    That's pass crack abuse. You sniffin' Ajax and boozing on Pine-Sol......


    And in 2008, he definitely "deserved" it ..... C's had the best record but Pierce, Allen and KG shared the wealth. No true dominant numbers. The finals for MVP was between Paul and Bryant and whomever was the number seed in the West, which really came down to that final showdown between the two teams at Staples, should have been MVP ......
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  2. 10-14-2011 #77
    Pelicans78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killakobe81
    You make some good points I think the one he got plus one of Nash's should of went to kobe Lebron should of had the other. I dont DISAGREE with your fact ... Ashy.

    But there is nothing that says you have to choose a top player off top 2 or 3 team. that is just what the award has evolved to.

    Once they stopped giving it to MJ in the late 90's ... the award was full of . Not that Malone wasnt deserving or Nash but the best player should win it, but most times that does NOT happen.
    Honestly, Kobe was fortunate to get even one MVP. He really hasn't had that great of an impact in the regular season which is what the MVP award. The award he won could have easily gone to CP3 since Paul had less help around him than Bryant and Paul had more of an impact on his team since he did run the team by himself and was surrounded by over glorified role players and one of the worst bench in the league. Even during the years Nash won, guys like Shaq and Dirk had more impact on their teams than Kobe IN THE REGULAR SEASON.
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  3. 10-14-2011 #78
    Ashy Larry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killakobe81
    You make some good points I think the one he got plus one of Nash's should of went to kobe Lebron should of had the other. I dont DISAGREE with your fact ... Ashy.

    But there is nothing that says you have to choose a top player off top 2 or 3 team. that is just what the award has evolved to.

    Once they stopped giving it to MJ in the late 90's ... the award was full of . Not that Malone wasnt deserving or Nash but the best player should win it, but most times that does NOT happen.

    I agree with the best player reference. It was obvious he was the best player in the league but how "valuable" is that player when the team he's on finishes 19 games behind another squad?? If that's the case, they should come up with another award, the BPA (Best Player Award). And it's the criteria that the award had turned into and it has been that way since 1983. Might as well call it the Andre Dawson Award, since A.D. was the only guy to win the NL MVP award while finishing on a last place team ...... baseball changed that quickly.
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  4. 10-14-2011 #79
    Brazil
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    He is no more a top 20 player but still a solid top 30-35
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  5. 10-14-2011 #80
    Ashy Larry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78
    Honestly, Kobe was fortunate to get even one MVP. He really hasn't had that great of an impact in the regular season which is what the MVP award. The award he won could have easily gone to CP3 since Paul had less help around him than Bryant and Paul had more of an impact on his team since he did run the team by himself and was surrounded by over glorified role players and one of the worst bench in the league. Even during the years Nash won, guys like Shaq and Dirk had more impact on their teams than Kobe IN THE REGULAR SEASON.
    When Nash won it, PHX was killing fools in the regular season and Nash himself had solid double-double (points and assists) numbers. Really don't see a problem with him winning either one. One could have gone to Shaquille possibly but throwing up 35 a night just to finish 19 games behind the Suns equals Tracy McGrady. T-Mac did that a few times, I guess the award should have gone to him as well.
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  6. 10-14-2011 #81
    Pelicans78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashy Larry
    When Nash won it, PHX was killing fools in the regular season and Nash himself had solid double-double (points and assists) numbers. Really don't see a problem with him winning either one. One could have gone to Shaquille possibly but throwing up 35 a night just to finish 19 games behind the Suns equals Tracy McGrady. T-Mac did that a few times, I guess the award should have gone to him as well.
    Really, Amare had a great case the year Nash won his first one. Amare had awesome numbers and was giving Nash tons of easy assists. Both guys had huge impacts which is why Phoenix easily had the best record.

    The 2nd year Nash won was basically due to writers seeing Phoenix win without Amare. Still, Dirk had a great argument that season too.
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  7. 10-14-2011 #82
    Ashy Larry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78
    Really, Amare had a great case the year Nash won his first one. Amare had awesome numbers and was giving Nash tons of easy assists. Both guys had huge impacts which is why Phoenix easily had the best record.

    The 2nd year Nash won was basically due to writers seeing Phoenix win without Amare. Still, Dirk had a great argument that season too.

    so true. I could easily see it going to Amare with 26 and 9. I think seeing Nash eclipse that almost 90% from the line, 40% from 3 and 50% from the field got the media juices flowing.

    Agree again on the 2nd year. The Spurs had the best record but I guess the media saw Nash carry the Sun to a playoff berth and a division le without Amare who avg'd 26 the previous year. If Duncan had avg'd 24 or 25 instead of 18, the MVP would have been his.
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  8. 10-14-2011 #83
    Ashy Larry
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    Westbrook 15

    Nash 14

    Amare 13

    Melo 12

    Pau 11
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  9. 10-15-2011 #84
    TheRealCB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashy Larry
    Westbrook 15

    Nash 14

    Amare 13

    Melo 12

    Pau 11
    So Blake Griffin> STAT and PAU

    espn
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  10. 10-15-2011 #85
    Jodelo
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    Pau Gasol at number 11? He is the most offensively skilled big man in the NBA right now.
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  11. 10-15-2011 #86
    Nathan89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashy Larry

    Pau 11
    Just goes to show Kobe can't win without a top 10 player in the league.
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  12. 10-15-2011 #87
    Giuseppe
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    ^Though Gasol couldn't win a single playoff game till Kobe took him in.
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  13. 10-15-2011 #88
    xellos88330
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    Rankings are re ed.
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  14. 10-15-2011 #89
    DUNCANownsKOBE
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    Amare is at #13
    Chrissy Bosh is at #24


    Bosh > Amare
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  15. 10-15-2011 #90
    DUNCANownsKOBE
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    Neither Westbrook nor Nash are top 15 players
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  16. 10-16-2011 #91
    Killakobe81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan89
    Just goes to show Kobe can't win without a top 10 player in the league.
    When does 11 = top 10 Player?

    The public school system continues to fail us ...
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  17. 10-16-2011 #92
    DPG21920
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoK
    Amare is at #13
    Chrissy Bosh is at #24


    Bosh > Amare
    I don't know what is so funny about that.
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  18. 10-16-2011 #93
    Killakobe81
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    amare was an MVP candidate before he wore down at season's end. Bosh maybe a better "all-around" or more versatile ...but amare is more valuable than Bosh when healthy. Sure amare doesnt rebound enough for my liking, but he is a more dominant offensive presence than Bosh. And though solid Bosh is not a prime KG or Tim on defense so it's not like he is soo much better than stat on that end. He is clearly better but not enough to make up for amare's superiority on the other end.
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  19. 10-16-2011 #94
    DPG21920
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    IMO plenty of players, especially in a system where you don't have to defend at all, can have good starts. That doesn't mean all that much to me and it's all about what can you do for a full year and in the playoffs. Seasons aren't made up of good starts. Having extreme highs and lows isn't better than consistent.

    All I know is Amare couldn't keep it up and had an awful playoff. My point is that when you look back at everything, I think it's pretty damn close and it's not laughable to suggest Bosh is right there with Amare in my humble opinion.
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  20. 10-16-2011 #95
    Killakobe81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPG21920
    IMO plenty of players, especially in a system where you don't have to defend at all, can have good starts. That doesn't mean all that much to me and it's all about what can you do for a full year and in the playoffs. Seasons aren't made up of good starts. Having extreme highs and lows isn't better than consistent.

    All I know is Amare couldn't keep it up and had an awful playoff. My point is that when you look back at everything, I think it's pretty damn close and it's not laughable to suggest Bosh is right there with Amare in my humble opinion.
    Fair points but we know amare was hurt. Even going back to his young days facing le level spur teams, when healthy amare BROUGHT it in the playoffs. I agree it's not that FAR of a gap, but i do think he is better even though Bosh had a better playoffs.
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  21. 10-16-2011 #96
    Killakobe81
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    Also there are 2 different seasons where amare, (early last and Nash's first MVP one) where amare got some MVP "consideration".

    When was the season (i must of missed it) where BOsh would be in that type of conversation?
    Now I get he was on some ty Raptors teams, but he did make the playoffs one year. But yet Bosh was considered a "border line" all-star, so much so that he created a viral campaign for fan votes. To me, that is the difference.

    Also, despite being older and having two serious injuries it was amare who was the most sought after (behind Lebron and Wade) in FA, not bosh.

    Now dont get me wrong because of age and injury I would probably take rupaul ...but currently amare is the better player.
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  22. 10-16-2011 #97
    DPG21920
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    Amare really wasn't that sought after tbh...His own team didn't want him.
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  23. 10-16-2011 #98
    Killakobe81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPG21920
    Amare really wasn't that sought after tbh...His own team didn't want him.
    LOL, fair point.
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  24. 10-16-2011 #99
    DPG21920
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    Bosh also made the playoffs twice as the man with a terrible Toronto team, not once.
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  25. 10-16-2011 #100
    DPG21920
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    Also, I have been saying this stuff for years. I just don't see an issue going with either guy.

    http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...ght=amare+bosh

    Quote Originally Posted by DPG21920
    I would say Amare is better than Bosh. Not by much, but he is a much better finisher.
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