Do you younger guys agree with this article?

[Drachen]

I love how you guys throw out the buzzword en lement. Same from the GOP for literally 100 years. Same rhetoric used against FDR and LBJ.

No what he was saying is that the way that they had been raised they thought they would get about the national average if they worked hard and played the game.

Well they did that and found that they are being asked to work for half if they can find work at all. Expectation is not en lement.

Like i said critical thinking is not very big for you. You start arguing a point and you lose the forest for the trees. Its like the whole 99% thing. You cite a poll saying that 30% of all Americans lay economic blame ALL on the financial sector and you interpret that as a win because its not 99%.

You have problems keeping up it would be okay if it weren't for your desire to guide policy. Like I said. You are part of the problem.

The problem is that you are using the national average. You don't get the national average out of college. I know that the average starting salary for a college graduate (bach) a few years ago was 32k. That would have obviously come down. Even if it didn't, it is still an average. So for every newly minted engineer making 42, you have a poetry major making 22. I think you get the idea.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're seriously ing re ed. Anyone who graduates from college thinking that they have a chance at a 50k job merely by virtue of having graduated with a b.a. has a severe sense of en lement.

I knew, when I graduated college in 2005, that I had no chance whatsoever of doing anything with my degree. This was before the crash. I say this to show that if anyone expected to get a good job with a non-technical degree (e.g., engineering), then they would also have an extreme sense of en lement as well. Why? Because we knew that compe ion for jobs was outstripping the supply -- there were more qualified candidates out of school than there were jobs. And did I mention this was in 2005?

All the crash did was make a bad situation worse. The article is filled with a bunch of hipsters complaining that they can't find a job with their bull degrees in areas no one gives a about. For every one of their stories (which is rife with solipsistic en lement), I can find stories of people like DR who made something of themselves despite all the that's been going on.

You like to talk about critical thinking. Sadly, you don't seem to do much of it yourself.

My bad. I allowed myself to get sucked into your mischaracterization. Before we go on can you quote the portion of the article that indicates that they felt en led to $50k straight out of college.

I forget you s have your preconceived notions and then fit everything into them. This appears to be the case here as well. i lost sight of that. My bad.

FWIW, my degree does have a national starting salary of a hair under $50k.

[vy65]

My bad. I allowed myself to get sucked into your mischaracterization. Before we go on can you quote the portion of the article that indicates that they felt en led to $50k straight out of college.

I forget you s have your preconceived notions and then fit everything into them. This appears to be the case here as well. i lost sight of that. My bad.

FWIW, my degree does have a national starting salary of a hair under $50k.

Do you make a hair under 50k? What's your degree in?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The problem is that you are using the national average. You don't get the national average out of college. I know that the average starting salary for a college graduate (bach) a few years ago was 32k. That would have obviously come down. Even if it didn't, it is still an average. So for every newly minted engineer making 42, you have a poetry major making 22. I think you get the idea.

I understand. The problem is that no one except the usual suspects is claiming they were even expecting $50k.

they like making up.

[LnGrrrR]

Holy , i wonder why our generation thinks negatively. Only, you know, 9/11, the war on terror, the banks failing and getting paid taxpayer money, Katrina... I can see no reason for negativity.

That said, I don't think all of us in the 20-35 age gap are as emo as the article makes us out to be. I do think I was somewhat "lucky", as I joined the military to be in the bomb squad, and ended up failing out of that career field and into the network technician track which is much better career-wise.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you make a hair under 50k? What's your degree in?

That makes no difference in the discussion and i am not going to allow you to make this about me. The point is that there are majors that start out there on average so for some that would be a reasonable expectation.

Now where in the article do they claim that they in particular were expecting that. Its looking more and more like another strawman by the board 'conservatives.'

[LnGrrrR]

I have to say, reading through the thread now, DR is pretty much spot on.

[vy65]

That makes no difference in the discussion and i am not going to allow you to make this about me. The point is that there are majors that start out there on average so for some that would be a reasonable expectation.

Now where in the article do they claim that they in particular were expecting that. Its looking more and more like another strawman by the board 'conservatives.'

Ok. So you don't make a hair under 50k. Thanks for proving my point.

Is your mystery major in cultural studies too?

[vy65]

Holy , i wonder why our generation thinks negatively. Only, you know, 9/11, the war on terror, the banks failing and getting paid taxpayer money, Katrina... I can see no reason for negativity.

That said, I don't think all of us in the 20-35 age gap are as emo as the article makes us out to be. I do think I was somewhat "lucky", as I joined the military to be in the bomb squad, and ended up failing out of that career field and into the network technician track which is much better career-wise.

I think I missed on something. At a certain point, I realized that I had to do what I was good at and that would make me money. This was very different than what I wanted to do.

Emo gets get all sad when what they want to do doesn't end up paying well or being in demand. That's not some sign of the times we're in. That's just an unwillingness to grow up.

[vy65]

lol critical thinking.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ok. So you don't make a hair under 50k. Thanks for proving my point.

Is you're mystery major in cultural studies too?

You obviously are going to keep trying. I kind use apathy as a blunt force weapon. I don't want to disturb your preconceived notions about me. Its much more fun watching you guys be completely wrong.

Now back to the thread subject.

Where in the article does anyone say they expected to make $50k straight out of college.

Thats been you guys position for three pages at least now. You giving up on it them because it certainly seems to make you a bunch of ing liars.

[vy65]

You obviously are going to keep trying. I kind use apathy as a blunt force weapon. I don't want to disturb your preconceived notions about me. Its much more fun watching you guys be completely wrong.

Now back to the thread subject.

Where in the article does anyone say they expected to make $50k straight out of college.

Thats been you guys position for three pages at least now. You giving up on it them because it certainly seems to make you a bunch of ing liars.

I don't have any preconceived notions about you. You intimated you made 50k out of school. I called you out on that and you shriveled up like tiny little balls.

The whole point of the article was to suggest that kids my age have lowered their expectations about their careers due to "the times we're in." What it neglects is the fact that a) these kids have majors like "critical thinking" and b) even before "the mess we're in," you had to get some post-graduate degree if you thought the school-route was going to make you any money.

The 50k only came up when you suggested you printing paper - which clearly isn't the case.

lol critical thinking.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't have any preconceived notions about you. You intimated you made 50k out of school. I called you out on that and you shriveled up like tiny little balls.

The whole point of the article was to suggest that kids my age have lowered their expectations about their careers due to "the times we're in." What it neglects is the fact that a) these kids have majors like "critical thinking" and b) even before "the mess we're in," you had to get some post-graduate degree if you thought the school-route was going to make you any money.

The 50k only came up when you suggested you printing paper - which clearly isn't the case.

lol critical thinking.

Shriveled balls? Male machismo trying to evoke an answer. I've never experienced that before....

So you admit that you and your ilk were just talking out of your ass with these claims of $50k? Thats what important to t he discussion because you are making up about them so you can ridicule them.

[vy65]

Shriveled balls? Male machismo trying to evoke an answer. I've never experienced that before....

So you admit that you and your ilk were just talking out of your ass with these claims of $50k? Thats what important to t he discussion because you are making up about them so you can ridicule them.

So you don't make 50k. Cool.

[Vici]

." What it neglects is the fact that a) these kids have majors like "critical thinking" and b) even before "the mess we're in," you had to get some post-graduate degree if you thought the school-route was going to make you any money.

You do realize that he was just using a few of his friends and that in no way shape or form does that cons ute the majority of the people in our generation. Obviously those majors are worthless and if anyone was dumb enough to go into an interview with haircuts like that they don't deserve the job.

These kids aren't holding themselves out for 50k jobs but any job that could lead to a career. I know in my particular field, for every open position there are literally hundreds of applicants. It's harder to get into Harvard or MIT than it is getting a job with my company. That's kind of the point, It wasn't like this before.

[vy65]

You do realize that he was just using a few of his friends and that in no way shape or form does that cons ute the majority of the people in our generation. Obviously those majors are worthless and if anyone was dumb enough to go into an interview with haircuts like that they don't deserve the job.

The le of the article is: "Why the Current Crop of Twentysomethings are going to be ok." He talks about his friends, sure. But then he extrapolates that to our entire generation.

These kids aren't holding themselves out for 50k jobs but any job that could lead to a career. I know in my particular field, for every open position there are literally hundreds of applicants. It's harder to get into Harvard or MIT than it is getting a job with my company. That's kind of the point, It wasn't like this before.

Depends on the company. I'm sure they're are more than a few companies where it'd be easier to get hired compared to getting into Harvard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You cannot even say it can you vy?

Admit that they never said that. Darrin just pussed out and left.

[vy65]

Admit what? You intimated you make 50k. I called you out on it. And then you followed Darrin right out the door.

I'm sensing a noticeable lack of critical thinking on your part.

[DarrinS]

These kids aren't holding themselves out for 50k jobs but any job that could lead to a career. I know in my particular field, for every open position there are literally hundreds of applicants. It's harder to get into Harvard or MIT than it is getting a job with my company. That's kind of the point, It wasn't like this before.

Or, sometimes you just have to start on the ground floor and work your way up.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...1&postcount=53

[LnGrrrR]

Damn. You served a few tours in Afghanistan AND had time to knock out two PhD's? Impressive.

Alot of people in the military tend to do the most schooling while overseas... not much else to do during the downtime.

[DarrinS]

Alot of people in the military tend to do the most schooling while overseas... not much else to do during the downtime.

Through Webster University?

[LnGrrrR]

I think I missed on something. At a certain point, I realized that I had to do what I was good at and that would make me money. This was very different than what I wanted to do.

Emo gets get all sad when what they want to do doesn't end up paying well or being in demand. That's not some sign of the times we're in. That's just an unwillingness to grow up.

I think there's a difference between being cynical and being emo. To me, the kids in the article are emo, which I can't stand. However, I'm cynical as anyone, and I think it can be a positive trait.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Anyone who graduates from college thinking that they have a chance at a 50k job merely by virtue of having graduated with a b.a. has a severe sense of en lement.

My point was that no one said that. Why did you intimate that anyone had? Clearly not form the article because it was not said there.

I told you that my degree has a starting salary of a hair under $50k to indicate that such degrees do exist. if you want to read more into me not going into more detail about myself then you go right ahead.

[LnGrrrR]

Through Webster University?

I can't tell you how many young airmen I see who sign up for Phoenix or some other bull school.

That said, a lot of decent schools are now offering online courses. (I still think that you learn much less than inside an actual classroom environment, but that's me.) And there's also other education opportunities to study for (such as the CCNP, which I'll be reading up for...)

[vy65]

I think there's a difference between being cynical and being emo. To me, the kids in the article are emo, which I can't stand. However, I'm cynical as anyone, and I think it can be a positive trait.