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Can't afford two Mercedes with my kids going to private bible college U
going from the "family making $300K already struggling" to "who are you to say what should they pay" goalpost move once the example is burned to the ground... typical, tbh
I don't even think WC math is correct. They would be paying an additional 4.6% on the amount above $250k, so $50k x .046 = $2300. The payroll tax is capped at like the first $110k of income so that would be subject to an additional 2%, so 110k x .02 = $2200. $2200 + $2300 = $4500 annual tax increase. If someone making 300k a year can't afford the additional 4.5k they are living far beyond their means.
am I calculating something wrong?
I guess if both husband and wife were employed and making more than 110k they would both be subject to the increased payroll tax of $2200 bringing the total to $6700 annually. Still, it is an effective 2.2% tax increase on a couple making 300k a year and this is what people are up in arms about?
WC, am I wrong correcting your math?
You guys keep forgetting Slick Willy ran the wave of the tech bubble and the Y2K scare. Two things he had no control over.
Really think he would do any better if elected in 2000 instead?
Yes, you are wrong. The majority of the income only increases by about 3%, 25 to 28, 28 to 31, etc. It's not till you get the 35% to 39.6% change in the marginal rate that you see the 4.6% increase.
If they have enough deductions to get down to $200k taxable, that alone is still more than a $6,000 increase in taxes. That with the $4404 increase on SS in already more than a $10k increase in taxes.
That's why I ask. How many maids will get laid off? Yard maintenance, pool cleaning services, etc. How much will their business decrease when people have to start cutting the outlay?
Is it more important to have this money where the government can waste it, or should it be used in the local economy?
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 11-16-2012 at 07:43 PM.
Show me what specifically is wrong with my math for the 300k income you specified in your example
No, I'm not going to waste the time for that.
So we disagree on the number. Whoop-t-do. It's still a pretty large number that will have some effect on local purchases.
Ok. Your number is >100% more than mine. Yours is BS until you show me where mine is incorrect.
Considering that its either going to fund a) the jobs of government workers who are likely making less than 75k or b) someone who is a recipient of government help, it is still likely going to help those poor people you're so concerned about.Tell me WC, in your world, how much should multi millionaires pay in taxes? I guess nothing according to your logic, since you'd be taking away all that trickledown!Of course, the fact that the highest tax rates keep going down, and the wealth keeps getting more concentrated into the hands of the rich and not the middle class... Well that means nothing right?
WC's numbers assume they pay the additional 4.6% on all income when in fact, it is only income above 250k which, in his original example is only 50k. He says 10k in additional taxes when it is really only 2.4k. His numbers are wildly inacurate and he should not be taken seriously when discussing tax matters.
well, he did say whoop t do.
My number is considering all tax breaks resume to normal. I think yours is only considering the rich's taxes going back up.
Would I be right or wrong about your calculations?
Wrong. Your applying the increase in tax to the total whereas it only applies to the Mount above 250k which is 50k in your 300k example.
First of all, keep in mind that they pay more simply by making more. It is only fair that everyone pay the same tax rates. I think the lower income people are paying too little of a marginal rate and that the rich are paying too much. Where is the "equal suffrage?" I will assume that you are basing your question on our current tax structure. Under that assumption, I say eliminate all credits across the board. Eliminate most deductions. Keep in place charitable deductions with a limit of in the neighborhood of $12,000 annual. Up to 4 personal exemptions for a couple, 3 for a Head of Household. Elderly care as an exception for more. A standard deduction for the tax payer, equal for everyone. Eliminate Earned Income Credit, or simply give all citizens 18 years and older a monthly check of maybe $300.
You have to remember the end result of our tax system. It increases or decreases selected activities. It isn't fair when you give one group something and not another.
Here is the biggest one i have mentioned two or three times before. Since Social Security and medicare are simply not as advertised, just call them a tax, Add then together and call it a social tax. We have the 6.2% and 1.45% employer payroll tax part, and the personal 4.2% SS and 1.45% Social security and Medicare deductions for the employee as well. Require all employers to give their employees a one time pay raise, and make the employee pay this full 13.2% tax. Call it a social tax. The one time pay raise will be enough to cover this relocated tax burden. All employees pay this full 13.2% just like we all currently pay the 5.65%. The purpose of this is twofold. First, people see a more realistic cost of their employment is. Second, this rate changes as government spending does. It affected everyone, giving everyone "skin in the game" when it comes to pressuring government to spend less, and more wisely. The goal would be to reduce this tax for everyone by increasing government efficiency and reducing spending.
No, I am right then.
So exactly what should the tax rate be for everyone WC? And you do realize that 1k means a lot more to someone making 25k a year than someone making 250k, right? Look at your examples... They may have to go without a maid. The person making 25k a year probably has to live in a bad part of town, drive a junker, and see a movie a few times a year.An easy way to show the value of money... Who do you think would be happier about an extra 10k per year? The person going from 25 to 35, or the person going from 250k to 260k?Additionally, now you want the poor to pay more taxes. Weren't you just arguing that the gov was ineffective and you'd rather have that money in the hands of the people to purchase things? Which is it?If you raise taxes on the lower classes, you're going to reduce spending. The lower classes spend more of their incomes on expenditures out of necessity. (You can't save much when you need to spend on the basics.)
No. You are wrong. Detail how taxes will go up on a couple filing jointly, both making 150k per year for a total taxable income of 300k. No deductions. Your initial numbers are wildly off base and bordering on Morris crazy scaremongering.
Rich folks already got rid of the maid and bought an iRobot... heck, if anybody still have a maid it's probably Mar a from Mexico getting paid under the table.
I don't know, but this class warfare the libtrads keep employing pisses me off so much. What ever happened to respecting other, and equality?
Consider this. No matter what we set our top marginal rate to, we have a long term average of collecting 18.3% of the GNP (or is it GDP?). This varies so little. It's a very tight receipt of revenue of about 18.3%. For that reason alone, why should anyone pay so much higher a rate than anyone else?
Yes. $1k means more to some than others. So what. Life isn't equal, and the authoritarian approach of making it equal should be criminal.
LOL...
Really. I don't show you how I came to that conclusion so I am wrong?
Clue...
Think outside the box. Look at the possibilities.
This should be fun. Now I'm not going to show you. I explained it, and that should be enough, unless you are diving into a topic you aren't equipped to handle.
You would know...
Lol. You are a moron. Tell me how a couple making 300k's taxes are going up 14k+. You are wrong.
It's a $9.6k increase on income taxes after taking out the $4404 in SS increases.
9.6k/240k is 4%. As they pay increased step rates, 10 to 15 (5%), 15 to 28 (13%), 25 to 28 (3%), 28 to 31 (3%), etc. it averages out that way.
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