Lakers: Bryant takes blame

[Stalin]

So much failure and assumptions in your response:

1. Where did I say that he lacked leadership? OR did I say that if he did it was forgiveable? Also I read the whole quote ....Kobe never asked for more help. I trusted the dumbasses on this forum and ran with that but the full quote did not even say that ...in fact he said no ... here is the full quote Does Bryant believe the Lakers' front office needs to make a move? "No," he said. "Listen, if this is what we're rolling with, I can't make excuses. I have to go out there and do my job."

2. Please don't misquote me I said when two player are close (Bird and Magic or duncan/Shaq/Kobe) rings should be the decidor. I never said it is flat rings means you are better. But nice try.

3. I dont care who has what on their team ... I have no issue with any star player especially a proven champion ... making a complaint if the end resut is wanting to win. Kobe gripes about management helped spur the Gasol trade.

4. Thanks for spinning another fine example of the hypocrisy on this thread. Shaq misses the playoffs twice and you excuse both. With the he is not in in his prime and or other injury excuses. I am making none for Kobe ... or this version of the Lakers but plenty can make similar BS excuses. Let me ask you this is Kobe, Nash or Pau in their primes? Have the Lakers had injuries. So let's go ahead excuse this one for Kobe ... No. So get out of there with that hypocritical bull- . Or how about using the Smush or Kwame excuse for 2005? He MISSED the playoffs period. You have made that case so why does Hakeem. Kareem or Shaq get a pass remember bigs ALSO have more impact on the game ...remember?

5. Please define at LEAST for me ...I never said only 50% ...and the reason I used the last 2 games because they have been two of his least efficient efforts all season and I think that (his performance) is what sparked his comments you guys have taken out of context. Of course he deserves blame for this season ... go back and read what I said earlier his legacy deserves a hit if he misses but it should not be a huge one because how is squeaking in to the playoffs make this season any better? I never once bought in to this team as legit le contenders in fact I have not argued that since we got swept by the Mavs. My respect for Kobe doesnt blind me to the fact he is past his prime and the HOF help he has is not being utilized properly by the coach or Kobe. But even before this season started one of the biggest Laker fans anyone could ever know (me) picked the Lakers to lose in the WCF. So for me failure is not making it to the WCF ANYTHING short of the second round of the palyoffs was a failure based on my assessment of the team's ceiling of the WCF and a success if they made it that far. A first round loss to avoid the didnt miss playoffs stigma does little for me.

6. I never said it was all on Pau, or he is the reason for us losing. I said he still has value and they could addreess to other needs ... please show me where I said it was all on Pau.


Look I know amb you are enjoying the Lakers (and Kobe's struggles) but no need to make-up or make assumptions on things I post. I have not played the injury card or the "not in prime" card but if you can play that for duncan losing 1 to 8 or shaq missing the playoffs with a Nash 3 years younger than this one or for Hakeem ... I dont get why you act so obtuse here. Are you arguing Kobe is in his prime? Are you arguing that this version of Nash is better than the one Shaq played with?

Thing is you can be a great poster but your hate blinds you here. Of course I have some Kobe bias, to a degree, Im a Laker fan ...but your hate clouds your posting ability mightily. You make some good points but your disdain for Kobe makes you take such wild leaps to where you take something i said and infer all kinds of crap behind it. I think I would enjoy you discussing something non Kobe or Duncan related. Like Maybe Isiah vs. Cp3 vs. stockton. Or GP vs. Kidd

But duncan and Kobe? your posts are e

Fascinating essay, but didn't read, if thats not damage control of butthurt lakerfan, I dont know what is, IMO TBH.

[ambchang]

LOL Amb,

1. Kobe is in his prime ... Dude wasnt even in his prime in 2010 but whatever. He was good but prime?!

So when was his prime?

2. So we gonna trade Kobe instead with his bloated contract and no trade clause?! How about Dwight are only all-star caliber player under 30? Trading Pau (for me) isnt about blaming Pau it's about making my favorite team better. I would trade Kobe if it helped us win a le but who is gonna take on that contract and offer us assets?

You heard me say that? I heard you say Kobe is 50% to blame for two losses in a disappointing season after Kobe came out and used a passive aggressive way to take the blame for the season, then go on and try to “solve” a problem with a Pau trade. Ie. It’s an excuse to divert the blame from Kobe to Pau.

3. So because Kobe says he is playing near his prime ... that means he is? Yet he is an egotistical jerk with poor leadership skills but you taking his word as gospel?!

If he was an egoistic jerk with poor leadership skills and his team sucked, wouldn’t it be better for him not to say that this is the best he has played in a while? Also, feel free to ignore about the leading the league in scoring (third highest in his career, in per game and in per 36 minutes), and his 2nd best shooting year since his post Shaq days, as well as his 3rd best TS% in his career. Yes, just ignore those.

4. LOL Using the 40 year old Magic and MJ examples .... rings dont' matter and Duncan is above Kobe because I said so ...great arguments

You already forgot all those arguments you and I had over the years, the essays after essays of arguments? No wonder you forgot that Kobe was a coattail rider in the early 00s, and is trying to twist it as him and Shaq having 2nd billing.
And those 40 year old Magic and MJ examples? Those are YOUR examples. You explicitly said missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs, and whether being in his prime or not does not matter. Well, Jordan missed the playoffs with the Wizards, do those count? They do using your logic.

5. I agree Amb you have some good points but you keep qualifying about primes or making injury excuses where you see fit. Im not saying that stuff shouldnt matter in the grand scheme but those are excuses. When Kobe is retired I think the whole picture and story should be factored in missing the playoffs in 2005 etc. But over-reacting to a poor half a season and judging a players career behind it is foolish. And , if Kobe is near his prime all these years in doesnt that stregthen his overall career ranking?

Hakeem not playing in games leading to his team missing the playoffs is the same as Kobe playing games, scoring 35+ ppg and missing the playoffs? Shaq sucking and ring chasing while he was averaging 18/8 was the same when he was averaging 30/12? They should count they same, he missed the playoffs when he started sucking. Kareem missing 16 games, directly leading to his team missing the playoffs is the same as Kobe leading the league in scoring with the best big in the league, a top 10 PG (still, maybe top 15), a rejuvenated Ron Artest, along with Antawn Jamison?

6. LOL Cryhavoc's reading comprehension I said repeatedly in this thread injuries and team-mates were no excuse. Show me where I am making an excuse for Kobe. Also weak ass posters always have to dyck ride other posters arguments ...just saying. In fact amb who you slobbin just took me to task for NOT allowing in those BS excuses ... make up your mind fellas am I excusing Kobe or not?

The thing is, Kobe doesn’t have any excuses, and yet you are creating it for him.
Trading Pau will make the Lakers better.
Kobe is at least 50% responsible for the two recent losses (WTH was that supposed to mean anyways?).
I just said you can blame Kobe for poor leadership skills, but he doesn’t actually have poor leadership skills.
It’s OK for Kobe to miss the playoffs, Hakeem, Kareem, Nash and Shaq did it as well. Oh, and Phoenix Shaq is the same as Lakers Shaq. Hakeem and Kareem not playing is the same as Hakeem and Kareem playing.

[ambchang]

Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...

So I am now either a Kobe fanboi or Kobe himself? What the am I? I thought I was Kobe's Lucifer.

[ambchang]

Kobe is far from perfect but let's be real...if Kobe was in his prime he would have likely dropped 60 on Wade and Lebron...dude was pretty much unstoppable in his prime. Lebron would have fouled out trying to guard him (and perhaps vice versa) but Wade would have gotten torched like it was nobody's business...I will let Shaq answer the question since he played with all 3...

Only he never did in his prime against Wade and Lebron when they were youngins, playing in separate teams, with much worse teams.

I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it

So Lebron doesn't work out every day and practice every day, preventing him from being a "scientific dawg"? It actually sounds more like a diss from Shaq, essentially saying Kobe is a basketball nerd, and the only reason he is even in the conversation of being compared to Wade, Lebron, and Shaq is because he HAS to practice everyday. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in the conversation.

[ambchang]

I would agree with that...if he was close to his prime we wouldn't be even having this discussion

Well, KK81, KM just disproved you, him being the wildest Kobe fanboi agreed that Kobe is closer to TOSB than his prime.