Tiago: 'I want to stay'

[SenorSpur]

A couple point. First of all, I cant see how David West can command more than $10m. In 2008 when he was coming off a 21/9 season and signed for less than $10m. 2 years ago he signed for the Pacers for $20m/2yr after averaging 19/7.5. I doubt he'll be expecting to make a career high in earnings at 32 with declining stats.

Second, David West is an elite pick and pop player, the guy is one of the best mid range jump shooting big men in the game. Furthermore, the guy is a high IQ player. Byron Scott said he was one of the smartest players he has ever coached, that his BBIQ is "off the charts". Pop likes high IQ guys. Not to mention West is playing 34min/game for the best defensive team in the league, he can't be that bad a defender.

Lastly, Dieng isn't going to be on the board when we are drafting. And even if he is, what kind of minutes do you think Pop will give him? The whole point is to get someone who can play enough to sit Timmy outon back to backs and reduce his minutes when he does play. You think late first round rookie is going to impress Pop enough both offensivelyand defensively to get that kind of time? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Even if one of the guys you mentioned turns out to be a Hibbert, or even Deandre Jordan quality player in a couple years, who cares? Timmy and Manu will be retired and the championship window will be shut. Hibbert and Jordan only got 15min~ on bad teams as rookies, and you think we're gonna pick someone up who will be ready to step in and play 25min+ in the Spurs system with Pop? I'll be ecstatic if we can, but I doubt it.

The attributes you've described about West's game are very true. At the same time, the deficiencies I outlined in my post are also true. I don't care how effective West is in the pick-n-pop game, if Pop is serious about the Spurs being a better defefensive team, you don't accomplish that by adding another terrible defender. That said, even if the Spurs were interested, it's doubtful they'd be able to clear enough money to afford another 8-10 mil dollar contract, with Splitter's new contract being their first priority. Anyway, assuming the Spurs retain Splitter, they will not be in a position to afford signing a high-priced veteran in free agency. Besides, West isn't going to any team where he will be coming off the bench. Therefore, West is luxury player they likely cannot afford and one that doesn't really make sense.

The Spurs have proven time and again in their ability to fill out their roster via the draft and through reaonably-priced free agents. As for the draft, I'm not talking about a rookie big coming in an playing 25-30 mins a night. Again, if Splitter is retained, they will merely need someone to bolster the frontline depth on the roster. Besides, Pop isn't as down on rooks as you seem to think. Did anyone ever think Pop would integrate Leonard into the starting lineup as quickly as he did? Or how about Pop inserting a young Parker into the starting lineup a mere six games into his rookie season in 2001? That said, if either of the selections that I mentioned are available at the end of the round, the Spurs would be foolish to pass them up. Either one of them would be nice additions to bolster their frontline as a 5th big.

[Richie]

The attributes you've described about West's game are very true. At the same time, the deficiencies I outlined in my post are also true. I don't care how effective West is in the pick-n-pop game, if Pop is serious about the Spurs being a better defefensive team, you don't accomplish that by adding another terrible defender. That said, even if the Spurs were interested, it's doubtful they'd be able to clear enough money to afford another 8-10 mil dollar contract, with Splitter's new contract being their first priority. Anyway, assuming the Spurs retain Splitter, they will not be in a position to afford signing a high-priced veteran in free agency. Besides, West isn't going to any team where he will be coming off the bench. Therefore, West is luxury player they likely cannot afford and one that doesn't really make sense.

While he isn't going to be winning any all defensive awards any time soon, David West is playing major minutes in the #1 defensive team in the league this year. He isn't amazing, but he isn't the terrible defender you make him out to be. If he can be part of a top defence next to Hibbet and George, he can be in a top defence next to Duncan and Leonard.

When it comes to the available salary, we'll have to see. The whole point of my post was that we just don't know what the salary cap will be, we don't know what salary Manu is willing to take etc... If the cap is $62m, we could have $15m to pay Manu and a free agent, leaving Jackson the room exception ($2.5m) after we've signed everyone. Splitters cap hold is only $7.5m so if he wants a big contract we can wait until after free agency assuming he helps out by not signing with another team in restricted free agency.

As others have pointed out, the cap could easily end up $60m or less, we'll draft a guy and keep him, we'll give Manu a bigger contract and then we'll have only the MLE left. As I said there are too many unknowns at this point, but we could end up with the cap room to make a move in free agency.

The Spurs have proven time and again in their ability to fill out their roster via the draft and through reaonably-priced free agents. As for the draft, I'm not talking about a rookie big coming in an playing 25-30 mins a night. Again, if Splitter is retained, they will merely need someone to bolster the frontline depth on the roster. Besides, Pop isn't as down on rooks as you seem to think. Did anyone ever think Pop would integrate Leonard into the starting lineup as quickly as he did? Or how about Pop inserting a young Parker into the starting lineup a mere six games into his rookie season in 2001? That said, if either of the selections that I mentioned are available at the end of the round, the Spurs would be foolish to pass them up. Either one of them would be nice additions to bolster their frontline as a 5th big.

A fifth big isn't going to let us rest Timmy more in the coming years. Of course Splitter is helping carry the load, but after him we are pretty poor up front. Blair will almost certainly be gone, and while I'm not a great fan of he or Bonner I can see their talent and how they help the team to win games. Hopefully Baynes will be at least equal to Blair, although that is certainly not a given, and a front line of Splitter/Diaw/Baynes/Rookie may be good enough to win a couple games but we will still be relying on Timmy a lot.

No doubt, I'd love the Spurs to draft Dieng, but even if we do I'm not expecting him to play. If Tiago only got 12min/game (whom Pop says was exactly the same player in his rookie season as he is now) I have little hope for any rookie big.

[FireMicoHalili]

Isn't "I want to stay" the safest way to earn your dollars heading into free agency? It's good PR but at the same time makes other teams throw more money at you to lure you away. I haven't seen anyone say he didn't like to stay in the team unless he's soured on the idea of playing in that team.

[SenorSpur]

While he isn't going to be winning any all defensive awards any time soon, David West is playing major minutes in the #1 defensive team in the league this year. He isn't amazing, but he isn't the terrible defender you make him out to be. If he can be part of a top defence next to Hibbet and George, he can be in a top defence next to Duncan and Leonard.

When it comes to the available salary, we'll have to see. The whole point of my post was that we just don't know what the salary cap will be, we don't know what salary Manu is willing to take etc... If the cap is $62m, we could have $15m to pay Manu and a free agent, leaving Jackson the room exception ($2.5m) after we've signed everyone. Splitters cap hold is only $7.5m so if he wants a big contract we can wait until after free agency assuming he helps out by not signing with another team in restricted free agency.

As others have pointed out, the cap could easily end up $60m or less, we'll draft a guy and keep him, we'll give Manu a bigger contract and then we'll have only the MLE left. As I said there are too many unknowns at this point, but we could end up with the cap room to make a move in free agency.



A fifth big isn't going to let us rest Timmy more in the coming years. Of course Splitter is helping carry the load, but after him we are pretty poor up front. Blair will almost certainly be gone, and while I'm not a great fan of he or Bonner I can see their talent and how they help the team to win games. Hopefully Baynes will be at least equal to Blair, although that is certainly not a given, and a front line of Splitter/Diaw/Baynes/Rookie may be good enough to win a couple games but we will still be relying on Timmy a lot.

No doubt, I'd love the Spurs to draft Dieng, but even if we do I'm not expecting him to play. If Tiago only got 12min/game (whom Pop says was exactly the same player in his rookie season as he is now) I have little hope for any rookie big.

Points taken. I totally agree with you in that Blair will likely be gone and Bonner will be on an expiring contract next year. I, too, am hopeful that Baynes can move up the rotation and become the 4th big. That leaves an open spot for a 5th big. Therefore having a young, cheap option in the pipeline would seem to be the way to go. That's really all I was getting at.

In what will certainly be a financial climate that will be more restrictive and punitive, I just don't think it wise to throw big money (double-digit millions) into any free agent this summer - especially one who is north of 30 years old - whether it be West or anyone else.

As for the summer priorities, I'm sure the big priority will be getting Splitter under contract. After that, who knows?

[Obstructed_View]

Isn't "I want to stay" the safest way to earn your dollars heading into free agency? It's good PR but at the same time makes other teams throw more money at you to lure you away. I haven't seen anyone say he didn't like to stay in the team unless he's soured on the idea of playing in that team.

Good point. There's a long tradition of free agents using the Spurs as a ploy to get more money. About time a Spurs free agent decided to take advantage of that.

[Richie]

Points taken. I totally agree with you in that Blair will likely be gone and Bonner will be on an expiring contract next year. I, too, am hopeful that Baynes can move up the rotation and become the 4th big. That leaves an open spot for a 5th big. Therefore having a young, cheap option in the pipeline would seem to be the way to go. That's really all I was getting at.

In what will certainly be a financial climate that will be more restrictive and punitive, I just don't think it wise to throw big money (double-digit millions) into any free agent this summer - especially one who is north of 30 years old - whether it be West or anyone else.

As for the summer priorities, I'm sure the big priority will be getting Splitter under contract. After that, who knows?

Fair points about the luxury tax. I'm hoping Bonner will be waived to make way for a new big man, but knowing Pop this may be a pipe dream. I just feel the more help Timmy gets up front, the longer he can play. A new big man may be the difference between Timmy taking his 3rd year player option or not, or between having fresh legs in the playoffs or not.

It's a fair point about not throwing too much at an older player like West. I just feel Spurs need to be thinking extremely short term for Duncans last 2 years. After that we'll head in to the lottery to rebuild. While financial prudence is necessary, these next 2 years could be the last as a contender for a long time, gotta do whatever it takes to maximise that potential. Of course, Splitter is probably the #1 priority in that case.

[spurraider21]

Splitter still needs to improve his back to the basket game tbh, if he wants to become the main big man post-Timmy. But he's an absolute must-resign

[SpursIndonesia]

IMHO, the Spurs will give a fair contract for him (Asik's money), but they won't overpay, as simple as that. They have TP's prime years contract and TD's ending career contract to show him what kinda "sacrifices" have been done by the team leaders to keep the team intact and compe ive.

[SenorSpur]

Fair points about the luxury tax. I'm hoping Bonner will be waived to make way for a new big man, but knowing Pop this may be a pipe dream. I just feel the more help Timmy gets up front, the longer he can play. A new big man may be the difference between Timmy taking his 3rd year player option or not, or between having fresh legs in the playoffs or not.

It's a fair point about not throwing too much at an older player like West. I just feel Spurs need to be thinking extremely short term for Duncans last 2 years. After that we'll head in to the lottery to rebuild. While financial prudence is necessary, these next 2 years could be the last as a contender for a long time, gotta do whatever it takes to maximise that potential. Of course, Splitter is probably the #1 priority in that case.

Very true. Unfortunately, there's not many players willing to sign a 2-year contract. Any free agent signing would likely be an albatross around the Spurs rebuilding program, once Duncan retires.

That said, are you uncertain whether the Spurs can contend for Western Conference supremacy next year with a frontline of Duncan, Splitter, Baynes, Diaw - along with an unnamed player?

[Richie]

Very true. Unfortunately, there's not many players willing to sign a 2-year contract. Any free agent signing would likely be an albatross around the Spurs rebuilding program, once Duncan retires.

That said, are you uncertain whether the Spurs can contend for Western Conference supremacy next year with a frontline of Duncan, Splitter, Baynes, Diaw - along with an unnamed player?

No doubt we can contend. My trepidation is the amount of work Duncan has to do with that front line. Not knowing how Baynes will turn out, it's perfectly plausible that he may have to carry a heavier load with that front line than he does this year. My goal with the West suggestion is to have a big man rotation that can compete without Timmy, so he can rest back to backs and play under 30 min/night.

I agree players likely won't sign 2 year contracts, but 3 years would be fine too. It would give us a big expiring to trade the year Timmy retires. Even a 4 year contract may not be a huge hindrance to our rebuilding, as we would have the expiring to trade in the second year. David West at $27m/3yr would be a good deal and give us a nice asset to be used in a trade in the 3rd year. That would give us a front line of Timmy/Splitter/West/Diaw/Baynes, and I think a rotation of Splitter/Baynes and West/Diaw could easily hold it's own in the regular season when Timmy needs games off.

It's not that I'm dead set on West, I just think he would be a good fit. I do think we have a great opportunity this summer with a number of quality free agent big men hitting the market, to squander it by effectively only having an MLE level salary to offer would be disappointing.

[SenorSpur]

No doubt we can contend. My trepidation is the amount of work Duncan has to do with that front line. Not knowing how Baynes will turn out, it's perfectly plausible that he may have to carry a heavier load with that front line than he does this year. My goal with the West suggestion is to have a big man rotation that can compete without Timmy, so he can rest back to backs and play under 30 min/night.

I agree players likely won't sign 2 year contracts, but 3 years would be fine too. It would give us a big expiring to trade the year Timmy retires. Even a 4 year contract may not be a huge hindrance to our rebuilding, as we would have the expiring to trade in the second year. David West at $27m/3yr would be a good deal and give us a nice asset to be used in a trade in the 3rd year. That would give us a front line of Timmy/Splitter/West/Diaw/Baynes, and I think a rotation of Splitter/Baynes and West/Diaw could easily hold it's own in the regular season when Timmy needs games off.

It's not that I'm dead set on West, I just think he would be a good fit. I do think we have a great opportunity this summer with a number of quality free agent big men hitting the market, to squander it by effectively only having an MLE level salary to offer would be disappointing.

Valid concerns - all of them. As a matter of fact, I've got the same concerns with respect to Timmy's load for and have shared those thoughts in several posts in previous years. Thank God that Tiago has turned into player we all heard about before his arrival. As you've stated, I'm hopeful Baynes can become a workhouse and carry his share of the frontline load. Still, another player is needed to help alleviate Duncan's workload - particularly in the areas of rebounding, defense, shotblocking and post-scoring. I don't know who else would be available in free agency, but I also wouldn't rule out a young big either. Either way, I've got confidence the Spurs will make the right decision.

[Richie]

Valid concerns - all of them. As a matter of fact, I've got the same concerns with respect to Timmy's load for and have shared those thoughts in several posts in previous years. Thank God that Tiago has turned into player we all heard about before his arrival. As you've stated, I'm hopeful Baynes can become a workhouse and carry his share of the frontline load. Still, another player is needed to help alleviate Duncan's workload - particularly in the areas of rebounding, defense, shotblocking and post-scoring. I don't know who else would be available in free agency, but I also wouldn't rule out a young big either. Either way, I've got confidence the Spurs will make the right decision.

Ruling out the 'big' free agents of Howard, Smith and Bynum who will all likely get max or near max contracts out of the Spurs price range, there are a few options. Millsap and Jefferson will both also probably be out of reach for the Spurs, so that leaves players like West, Kaman, Brand, JJ Hickson who could all be good additions to help Timmy. The fact that there are a number of bigger names on the market might help the Spurs out as other franchises chase Howard etc... we can chase the more realistic guys.

[SenorSpur]

Ruling out the 'big' free agents of Howard, Smith and Bynum who will all likely get max or near max contracts out of the Spurs price range, there are a few options. Millsap and Jefferson will both also probably be out of reach for the Spurs, so that leaves players like West, Kaman, Brand, JJ Hickson who could all be good additions to help Timmy. The fact that there are a number of bigger names on the market might help the Spurs out as other franchises chase Howard etc... we can chase the more realistic guys.

Personally, I like Hickson and he would make the most sense. He's still young, plays both ends of the floor, has a nice baseline jumper and is active around the basket - and best of all he's a legit 6'9". Millsap is a bit undersized and Jefferson and Kaman are major defensive liabilities. Even though they're all accomplished offensive players, they just have too many warts for my taste. Guys like that scare me.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I really hope he stays now that he's integral to the team. A 4 year $36 mil deal would be great, although I reckon he'll end up getting closer to $10mil/yr.

[BackHome]

The Spurs need to sign him they can't go with a new center it would take them to long to learn our system and get playing time. By that time Timmy career is over but going forward we sign Splitter and sign Bebe/Muscala/Dieng/or Carmichael in the first round. Then we bring over Hanga for SG and make a move on getting a good backup PG....we will also probably not sign Blair and SJ so adding another SF would be good.