Scott Brooks is getting exposed

[hater]

Ibakas jumper looks pretty pedestrian when not sitting on the shoulders of Harden and Westbrook tbh.

either that, or african police officer is being chased by the ghosts of the missed layup of game 4 that would have probably sealed a swep

[Embedded]

The Birdman is a monkeyballer.

[therealtruth]

Pop wasn't out-coached. Thunder, along with some pretty creative officiating, made some of the most impractical and unlikely shots that they just couldn't duplicate in the Finals. Thunder are hobbling with the loss of their ball-hog of a PG in Westbrick.

Thunder will be fortunate to get past the Clippers in the Semi's.

The team's defense can't allow the opponent to get an offensive rhythm. That's an easy way to lose games and series. Pop was outcoached. That's a big reason why he focused more on defense this season.

[td4mvp21]

But instead of forcing the youngest team in the postseason to execute in the halfcourt in an elimination game, on the road, with 18,000 rapid blue-shirted people screaming their faces off, Scott Brooks sucked the life out of the arena and put the Asik at the line four more times.

This is what I don't understand. Houston's halfcourt offense looked very shaky in the 4th.

[therealtruth]

Crazy how they had Jeff Green also. Traded him for Perkins. Imagine that starting 5. Westbrook, Harden, Green, Ibaka, Durant.

Wouldn't have worked. They would never have beat the Lakers without having better post defense. The Perkins trade worked. It allowed them to beat the Lakers.

[Mel_13]

Wouldn't have worked. They would never have beat the Lakers without having better post defense. The Perkins trade worked. It allowed them to beat the Lakers.

They might have needed Perkins to beat the 2010 Lakers. They didn't need him to beat the 2012 Lakers.

[jag]

Is there any white monkeyballers?

Joe Alexander



8th overall pick in the 2008 NBA Draft. Dude was crazy athletic...and his brain was about as worthless as his skillset, which was limited to jumping and dunking.

[TheGoldStandard]

The cap problem could be fixed if players would take less money in order to keep the band together which is why I love the Spurs, they get paid but they don't get overpaid for what they contribute or what they have done in the past.

[temujin]

What I wont understand is that they basically traded harden for 3 picks because kevin martin is an FA at the end of this year anyway. They traded away a chance at a championship in 2013 for a chance at a championship somewhere down the road.

Exactly.
I can't really blame Presti essentially because he felt they had no real chance against Miami this year.
Good enough for #1 spot in the West, with or without Harden, but not to beat Miami anyway, now.
The picks can turn into very good additions.
Presti knows that with Durant his turn will come, anyway.

[atoyotagaspedal]

My favorite part was the commentator said "you remember Roberty Horry right?"
C-webb: "A little bit"
move

[Mel_13]

@ the new Presti apologist narrative:

Presti concludes that the Heat are unbeatable, thus justifying his decision to abandon OKC's best chance at a championship in 2012-13 and the years immediately thereafter. Having abandoned all near term championship aspirations, he was then justified in selling Harden for pennies on the dollar.

[temujin]

The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.
Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.
66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

2012, with Harden, NBA Finals a joke for Miami.

2012, Team USA, Westbrook playing, Harden towel waiving.

2013.
No Harden (with Westbrook), OKC #1 spot in the West.
No Harden (with Westbrook), OKC 2-0.
No Westbrook OKC 1-2.

[Mel_13]

The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.
Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.
66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.

The two current pennies to the dollar, as well as the two high picks coming from the draft, are better than NO penny for the dollar.

1. At the time of the trade, Harden had one year remaining on his rookie contract. He was paid according to that rookie contract for the 2012-13 season. He wasn't going anywhere last summer.

2. If they did nothing, Harden would have become a restricted free agent this summer. The max contract that another team could offer him would be the same 4yrs/60M he was requesting from OKC. As a restricted free agent, there would have been ZERO chance of OKC losing Harden without compensation.

3. The draft picks received (pending the results of the draft lottery) are the 12th and 32nd in the 2013 draft and a pick from 21-30 in a draft from 2104-17. Maybe you count the 12th pick as a high pick, but there certainly aren't two high picks. The only way things get better is if the Toronto pick moves up to one of the top three picks in the 2013 draft (2.5% chance of that). In that case, the Toronto pick defers to the 2014 draft.

Unless someone called offering 5 pennies, for which there is scant evidence.

1. There's actually no evidence either way.

2. What is certain is that there was no pressure to execute the trade when they did. They were in no danger of paying the luxury tax in 2012-13 and there were at least three future windows to execute a Harden trade and avoid the luxury tax in 2013-14.

3. Of course, all this doesn't even address the other options at their disposal to avoid the luxury tax, or pay a small amount of tax for a year or two, that didn't include trading Harden at all.

66M for Harden (from Houston) > 53/54 M offered (and the difference is not 6).

1. First of all, he received 5yrs/80M from Houston. That fact, however, is irrelevant. Under the provisions of the new CBA, OKC could not offer him an extension greater than 4yrs/60M. The only way he could get more than that was by getting traded.

2. Except he didn't ask for a trade to team that could pay him much more. He asked OKC to pay him the 4yrs/60M that they were allowed to offer him. Instead, they gave him an ultimatum to take 4yrs/54M (so the difference IS 6 million dollars over four years) and when he didn't accept the ultimatum, they traded him for pennies on the dollar. This sequence was detailed by reliable reporting at the time.

Even with the rapid embrace of life as the franchise player for the Houston Rockets, something still troubles All-Star guard James Harden about the way his departure unfolded with the Oklahoma City Thunder: Why didn't officials give him longer than an hour to consider a final four-year, $54 million offer before trading him?

"After everything we established – everything we had done – you give me an hour?" Harden told Yahoo! Sports on Monday afternoon. "This was one of the biggest decisions of my life. I wanted to go home and pray about it. It hurt me. It hurt."

Asked if additional time might have caused him to accept a deal several million dollars short of the $60 million maximum contract Harden had long sought, he responded: "Who knows? Another day, who knows what another day would've done?"

[z0sa]

isn't possibly winning a le with him getting something in return??

[temujin]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530775]You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.

Thanks for the help.
Indeed, I did not know that Harden would have become a restricted free agent this year.
I concede the trade might look a bit premature, then.

However,

As per Kojnarowski:
Contract extension talks between the Thunder and Harden broke down, and Thunder general manger Sam Presti moved quickly to trade the guard. Harden rejected a four-year offer that would have paid him a base salary of $53 million to $54 million, league sources said. That offer would have pushed OKC's payroll to $95 million, and Thunder officials weren't willing to go any higher. The 2012-13 salary cap is set at just over $58 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at $70.3 million, while a four-year max deal is worth $60 million.

Apparently, offering 53-54 M would already put OKC way above the luxury tax (Not sure how that is calculated, considering they are now at 68 M with Martin's salary, but there wer other players involved); in that case, wouldn't it be second only to the Lakers' 100 M?
This might explain why they (Presti) gave him 1 hour to decide: they (Presti) probably hoped he would turn down the offer, and thus could blame him for wanting a trade.
Am I woefully offtarget?

[Mel_13]

[QUOTE=temujin;6530859]

You're woefully unaware of facts of the situation. I'll try to help you.

Thanks for the help.
Indeed, I did not know that Harden would have become a restricted free agent this year.
I concede the trade might look a bit premature, then.

However,

As per Kojnarowski:
Contract extension talks between the Thunder and Harden broke down, and Thunder general manger Sam Presti moved quickly to trade the guard. Harden rejected a four-year offer that would have paid him a base salary of $53 million to $54 million, league sources said. That offer would have pushed OKC's payroll to $95 million, and Thunder officials weren't willing to go any higher. The 2012-13 salary cap is set at just over $58 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at $70.3 million, while a four-year max deal is worth $60 million.

Apparently, offering 53-54 M would already put OKC way above the luxury tax (Not sure how that is calculated, considering they are now at 68 M with Martin's salary, but there wer other players involved); in that case, wouldn't it be second only to the Lakers' 100 M?
This might explain why they (Presti) gave him 1 hour to decide: they (Presti) probably hoped he would turn down the offer, and thus could blame him for wanting a trade.
Am I woefully offtarget?

I'm certain that the 95M figure is inclusive of projected luxury tax.

It's pure guesswork for anyone as to what Presti's intent was. It could have been just as you suggest. My personal opinion is that they were never going pay that much in luxury tax. If Harden took the 54M, then they could play out the 2012-13 season and deal with the 2013-14 payroll in the summer of 2013. Having Harden locked up at 4yrs/54M (well below his market value) would be a tremendous trade chip, which is likely one reason why Harden wouldn't take a reduced deal. They would also have the possibility of trading Ibaka (at 4yrs/48M, also an attractive piece). Then there is Perkins at 2yrs/19m. Ideally, they would find a team with cap space to absorb most or all of his deal. Failing that, they always had the amnesty provision at their disposal to use on Perkins. There was also the possibility of moving a smaller piece like Thabo and paying a few million in tax for a season or two.

I'll always remained convinced that they could have played out the 2012-13 season and taken their best shot at a ring. Then, if they judged that moving Harden was in the best interests of the franchise, a similar or better package would have been available in a sign and trade executed in the summer of 2013.

[temujin]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530880]

I'm certain that the 95M figure is inclusive of projected luxury tax.

It's pure guesswork for anyone as to what Presti's intent was. It could have been just as you suggest. My personal opinion is that they were never going pay that much in luxury tax. If Harden took the 54M, then they could play out the 2012-13 season and deal with the 2013-14 payroll in the summer of 2013. Having Harden locked up at 4yrs/54M (well below his market value) would be a tremendous trade chip, which is likely one reason why Harden wouldn't take a reduced deal. They would also have the possibility of trading Ibaka (at 4yrs/48M, also an attractive piece). Then there is Perkins at 2yrs/19m. Ideally, they would find a team with cap space to absorb most or all of his deal. Failing that, they always had the amnesty provision at their disposal to use on Perkins. There was also the possibility of moving a smaller piece like Thabo and paying a few million in tax for a season or two.

I'll always remained convinced that they could have played out the 2012-13 season and taken their best shot at a ring. Then, if they judged that moving Harden was in the best interests of the franchise, a similar or better package would have been available in a sign and trade executed in the summer of 2013.

I agree with everything, except that the last part: I feel OKC has really very little chance with Miami, which matches very well all their strengths. Maybe Presti felt that the team even with Harden was a bad match-up anyway?
This is unlike another team, which has, in my opinion, the tools to exploit Miami' few weaknesses. First, however, this other team needs to get there, alive and well, in all its vital parts.

[Mel_13]

[QUOTE=temujin;6530941]

I agree with everything, except that the last part: I feel OKC has really very little chance with Miami, which matches very well all their strengths. Maybe Presti felt that the team even with Harden was a bad match-up anyway?
This is unlike another team, which has, in my opinion, the tools to exploit Miami' few weaknesses. First, however, this other team needs to get there, alive and well, in all its vital parts.

They certainly had a better shot with Harden than without him. Trading him for the assets they received was an open admission that they regarded winning the West as their ceiling. That's a bad message to send to your team and your fans.

As a Spurs fan, I'm glad Presti made the trade. A healthy OKC would still have been tough to beat, even without Harden. The chances for the Spurs to advance to the NBA Finals, however, were greatly improved on the day Harden was traded to Houston.

My point at the outset was that San Antonio fans are too quick to anoint Presti as a genius. He's done a fine job overall, but he has made his share of mistakes and has been the recipient of some remarkable good luck.

[temujin]

[QUOTE=Mel_13;6530961]

They certainly had a better shot with Harden than without him. Trading him for the assets they received was an open admission that they regarded winning the West as their ceiling. That's a bad message to send to your team and your fans.

As a Spurs fan, I'm glad Presti made the trade. A healthy OKC would still have been tough to beat, even without Harden. The chances for the Spurs to advance to the NBA Finals, however, were greatly improved on the day Harden was traded to Houston.

My point at the outset was that San Antonio fans are too quick to anoint Presti as a genius. He's done a fine job overall, but he has made his share of mistakes and has been the recipient of some remarkable good luck.

Well, the point I made at the beginning was that Presti has a lot to do to control the OKC press.
Maybe I was wrong.
Focusing media's attention on Brooks' mistakes, as in the article, is one way to divert it from a trade that was a bit precipitated.