The small market Spurs have...

[constantstate]

its phoenix's fault that jj is even on the market. now they're faced with having to pay what another team values him at... because atlanta couldnt get anyone the last few years (with all that capspace) -- thats not his market price.

and you're the one that said... all else being equal. there's nothing equal about it. ny is the biggest market out there... but theres no way you can tell me that NY is this magical destination right now... players arent exactly flocking to NY to be in that situation... its a career dead end. (for the foreseeable future)

plus what im saying is its not whats happened in the past, but how things are changing (along with what the spurs are doing) i think the rest of the league is trying to catch up. including the bigger markets.

[ChumpDumper]

but theres no way you can tell me that NY is this magical destination right now... players arent exactly flocking to NY to be in that situation.

Crawford did. James did. I said the Knicks are limited by their cap situation more than anything -- any of the guys they get above the midlevel have to be in trade, plain and simple. Many free agents have an interest in playing for the Knicks, the money just isn't there in most cases.

plus what im saying is its not whats happened in the past, but how things are changing (along with what the spurs are doing) i think the rest of the league is trying to catch up. including the bigger markets.

Some are and some aren't. The Knicks and Mavs aren't going to change their models anytime soon, and the Spurs FA aquisition patterns are going to look more like theirs in the future because they'll be over the cap for years and limited to the exceptions just like them. It might actually slow down to a trickle as the Spurs approach the luxury tax threshold.

[constantstate]

if ny could pick and choose who they got... they picked wrong... cause they got into that mess in the first place. and speaking of that... crawford and james... the future of the knicks. its like a blackhole. (for every one good move they make a bad one)

[ChumpDumper]

if ny could pick and choose who they got... they picked wrong.

And?

They have the MLE and that's it for FA signings. They certainly seemed to get their target quickly this summer.

[constantstate]

and so your point is that chicago attracted big name free agents...

what targets? james? jesus... if that was a target, they need more help than just cap relief.

[ChumpDumper]

and so your point is that chicago attracted big name free agents...

If the Knicks played there, maybe. But using Chicago goes back to the management issue. Stay in that loop if you prefer.

what targets? james? jesus... if that was a target, they need more help than just cap relief.

As I said, most of their bigger acquisitions are through trade since they are over the cap. Are you having trouble understanding this?

[constantstate]

If the Knicks played there, maybe. But using Chicago goes back to the management issue. Stay in that loop if you prefer.

using chicago goes back to the large market theory. 3rd largest us city. etc? ring a bell?

As I said, most of their bigger acquisitions are through trade since they are over the cap. Are you having trouble understanding this?

none whatsoever... are you saying that the knicks only recently aquired this magical power to attract anyone they wanted? because im saying thats not how they got into their capspace problem. and james isnt exactly "target" material.

what i'm saying is that the league MIGHT be changing.

"There is a greater acceptance now of foreign athletes on the American sports scene," said Don Hinchey, vice president of communications for the Denver-based Bonham Group sports and marketing firm. "The game has gone global. And Manu has an endearing quality. His personality is out there — it's transcendent. I definitely think he has that quality that translates into American acceptance and adulation."

not only breakout foreign players on small market teams... but american players willing to take less money to be in a winning situation (no matter where its at) like a SARs or even Haslem in miami who left 10 million on the table from other teams.

[ChumpDumper]

using chicago goes back to the large market theory. 3rd largest us city. etc? ring a bell?

Jabba the GM. Ring a bell?

are you saying that the knicks only recently aquired this magical power to attract anyone they wanted?

I'm saying they have always been more attractive to the average NBA player, all other things being equal. Is this really a surprise to you?

because im saying thats not how they got into their capspace problem.

Neither am I.

and james isnt exactly "target" material.

How could he not be a target when they signed him? Your opinion has nothing to do with the fact that Zeke wanted this guy.

[constantstate]

Jabba the GM. Ring a bell?

yeah... jerry. what an (not gonna finish that).

i kinda edited my post at the end there. my whole feeling is that people are seeing what the spurs are doing, and its kinda changing things a little more. no question ny and la and even chicago will always have more benefits... theres just more money flowing around it... but if the game really goes global, marketing will be different too... players will have more places to make more money etc.. than just at home in ny or la.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree, but depending on that international draw is a bit dicey since it's much more player-dependent; e.g., you don't see many Turks posting on this board anymore.

[ChumpDumper]

but american players willing to take less money to be in a winning situation (no matter where its at) like a SARs or even Haslem in miami who left 10 million on the table from other teams.

Haslem is a good, Bruce-like example -- I would venture a guess he does have ample endorsement opportunities being from Florida as well to mitigate the difference somewhat.

SAR looks like he might settle for less, but he's at the age where winning starts to take precedence -- and he's got so much money already.

[picnroll]

When the Spurs had cap space in the Kidd fantasy year of 2003 one of the players they had strong interest in, actually went after and constructed a front loaded deal to get, was Brand. Miami ended up getting Brand to sign the same deal SA construted, which Sterling matched. The supposed factor that got Brand to sign with Miami rather than SA was that Nike offered a lucrative shoe endorsement deal if Brand signed a contract with Miami but not if he signed with SA. That pretty much defines small vs large market and who's who.

[constantstate]

SAR looks like he might settle for less, but he's at the age where winning starts to take precedence -- and he's got so much money already.

sars is also an example of a guy who can pick and choose too... even to some extent... through sign and trades that people are offering. (within portland's plans) kind of like a brent barry thing?

i think players like oberto too, who had alot of interest these past few years from the nba, wait for oportunities like the one with the spurs. if i remember correctly, he had lots of interest from other teams, but its almost like he was waiting to see if the spurs would offer him something he could live with...

[ChumpDumper]

sars is also an example of a guy who can pick and choose too.

Well, it looks like the MLE is the floor and not the ceiling for him, so he's not quite looking for just the winning situation.

i think players like oberto too, who had alot of interest these past few years from the nba, wait for oportunities like the one with the spurs. if i remember correctly, he had lots of interest from other teams, but its almost like he was waiting to see if the spurs would offer him something he could live with...

I would believe that if in fact it was reported. With both Barry and Oberto, Pop made his intentions known indirectly months, even years before the signings.

I think the "something he can live with" phrases is critical. Some players would join the Spurs for a song. Most wouldn't.

[constantstate]

The supposed factor that got Brand to sign with Miami rather than SA was that Nike offered a lucrative shoe endorsement deal if Brand signed a contract with Miami but not if he signed with SA. That pretty much defines small vs large market and who's who.

yeah but where brand is now... is defining how that thinking might be changing for some players? just like it took the cap time to even things up a little around the league. (its working for the most part)

now the nba better start marketing the new talent coming from overseas... because theres alot of players who live in america with accents too... or who live in the inner city and will start wearing a manu jersey cause of the way he plays. (and for a winner) etc. and around the world, more markets and more money for teams and players of teams with that new talent.

it would be interesting to see how many casual fans that know who manu is... would know who bruce bowen is if he walked the streets of argentina. lol

[constantstate]

Well, it looks like the MLE is the floor and not the ceiling for him, so he's not quite looking for just the winning situation.

i agree. i think alot of that is lip-service... but he does seem to want the right situation though, that i believe. (cause he's turned things down)

[ChumpDumper]

yeah but where brand is now.

Somewhere he still has a big shoe contract.

[constantstate]

Somewhere he still has a big shoe contract.

yup, theres always that.

oh... but somewhere out there hedo fans are still posting too. i can sense them. waiting for someone to question hedo's heart and how he fits in with the team.

[sickdsm]

Hey chump, i love how you point to NY to try and compare. All but a couple teams are looking up at them. Why don't you compare to REAL small market teams.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would I compare small market teams to other small market teams?

We've discussed Chicago, Atlanta and Miami in the last couple of pages.

Why would I even consider anything you are saying if you continue to labor under the assumption that San Antonio is the #8 market in the US?

[Mark in Austin]