OT: Gary Payton dropping truth bombs, today's NBA is boring and sucks

[Thebesteva]

I hope that is a rhetorical question. Because judging from his response he obviously hasn't.

Theres no shame if he likes todays ball more, its just my opinion, but I liked the sport more when these guys used to overpower eachother and kind of rumble. Thanks to dumb Artest and Stephen Jackson, from the moment the Palace incident occured, Stern and the NBA made these guys softer so that their image would change.

[Capt Bringdown]

I lived in Seattle during the Payton's tenure. I agree with the over-rated assessment. The Sonics' trip to the finals was the exception, spectacular post-season flameouts were more common.

But ridiculing his own coach and his teammates was crossing a line. His contentiousness would always surface in the bad times; the tenser the moment, the more Oakland he would become. And when the Sonics opened the 1994 playoffs against Denver with expectations of rolling to the finals, Payton overtly snapped.

"Three years ago I didn't see the first outbreak, but he and Ricky Pierce got into some kind of a discussion at halftime of the first Denver game, and they were threatening to get guns," Karl said. "The players told me they had guns in their bags. It was, 'I'll kill your family.' It was crazy. That was Game 1, and we won. And we won the next game. Then, Game 3, he goes crazy after the game. We lose. And everything he was saying -- as a counselor major, I know this -- was a projection. He's yelling at himself. He's standing up there saying we did this, and you're a so-and-so. He's yelling at the team, but he's yelling at himself. He's, 'You guys dogged it, we let them kick our butts, we didn't come mentally ready.' And the team's going, 'Come on, you're the worst one out there, man. You're the one who wasn't mentally ready.'
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[Clipper Nation]

Did you even watch 90s ball? There is no way anyone who watched night in and out prefers todays ball. It was tough basketball, today you got guys like Blake Griffin who flop just for the taste of it

I did watch '90s ball, and as I said earlier in the thread, it had its moments, but overall I prefer the '80s NBA, tbh.... and again, players flopped in the '90s, flopping had existed in the NBA as early as the '50s

Maybe you should try actually watching '90s ball instead of just repeating the glossed-over media spin

[313]

1996-2000 IMO is one of the most boring stretch of basketball. You have the league on life support hopelessly banking on Jordan's appeal to save them from bankruptcy. They were so desperate, that every athletic wingman or NC grad is pegged as the next Jordan


Personally suggesting one era is better than the other is unreasonable IMO. In every decade or era, there is a timeline of bland and uninspiring basketball and there are seasons that completely stand out. For example, 91-93 was dope. I don't care what you say, but Jordan in his prime was a once in a lifetime, especially against the Knicks.
2001-2003 was decent until the Finals rolled in, the league invested heavily in Shaq-Kobe. We did saw Iverson and Carter duke it out in the playoffs and McGrady delivered the lulz against the Pistons. 04-05 was a snooze fest but Spurs-Pistons series did save it from going down as the worst.


2006-2011 were the finest years IMO. You can all disagree but that was the perfect storm for me. Lakers-Celtics, Dirk putting on one of the best post season run by annihilating the Lakers and the Heat. Wade, Lebron, Arenas and even new comers like KD and Brandon Roy were giving us plenty of highlight reels. Not a fan of them? No problem, Duncan and Gasol were schooling everyone in the post. And if you feel like going retro,
Shaq, Mutombo, Zo and Kidd were somehow in the mix.


This season is the obligatory stink fest. Just look at the Eastern Conference and the watered down talent representing another uninspring All Star event, braise yourself for another $hitty season

A lot of talent coming in these next couple years

[Tuddy]

Most teams in the 90s had a dominant rim protector as well. Aside from the bigs mentioned, guys like Mark Eaton, Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Gheorgie Muresan, genuine 7 footers to protect the rim. Nowadays you get into the paint and you've got a 6'9 guy out there to finish against

[Thebesteva]

I did watch '90s ball, and as I said earlier in the thread, it had its moments, but overall I prefer the '80s NBA, tbh.... and again, players flopped in the '90s, flopping had existed in the NBA as early as the '50s

Maybe you should try actually watching '90s ball instead of just repeating the glossed-over media spin

You prefer 80s ball? There's no way you were legitimately watching 80s ball when it happened, that would put you in your early 40s at best. You're not old and Korean are you?

[StrengthAndHonor]

I did watch '90s ball, and as I said earlier in the thread, it had its moments, but overall I prefer the '80s NBA, tbh.... and again, players flopped in the '90s, flopping had existed in the NBA as early as the '50s

Maybe you should try actually watching '90s ball instead of just repeating the glossed-over media spin

Prefer it, yet you've never seen a game from it. Stick to trolling threads tbh.

[elmanutres]

Payton is just an overrated piece of negroid who benefitted from playing in a decade long watered down league. Nobody cares what he says. It's all about the now. LeGOAT, Kevin, and Cliff Paul will continue to carry the league and make it to be the best sport in the U. S. Of A outside of fooseball of course.

still got farther in the finals than durant

[Jacob1983]

Payton is right. Yeah, the free throws might be down from years past but that's become no one goes to the damn basketball anymore. Players have grown accustomed to living on the 3 point line and away from the paint. When you're jacking up 3 pointers and long rang jump shots, your free throw attempts will probably go down. The NBA sucks now because it's dominated by pussies and emo divas.

[lefty]

Payton is right. Yeah, the free throws might be down from years past but that's become no one goes to the damn basketball anymore. Players have grown accustomed to living on the 3 point line and away from the paint. When you're jacking up 3 pointers and long rang jump shots, your free throw attempts will probably go down. The NBA sucks now because it's dominated by pussies and emo divas.

And that's why I 've never like the addition of zone D

Now we have big men shooting 3's, and overrated scrubs stat padding because they are wide open for 3



that

[Jacob1983]

Rim protectors and dominant centers that rape the paint are nearly extinct in the NBA. For the NBA to be good, there has to be a balance or at least some variety when it comes jump shooters, rim protectors, and dominant centers.

[irishock]

I was thinking the same !

Clipper Nation shouldn't even try to hide it anymore.. at one point for sure he was a Laker fan before he turned on them and hopped on the Clipper bandwagon, let's say in 2011

I mean who the would believe he's been a Clipper fan since the 80's!!?

[UZER]

The NBA is the FB of the sports world. The stars manufactured with forced stories are like the fake lives people portray on FB.

[Bill_Brasky]

The was that rambling about? He claims the NBA is weaker today than in his era because of too many foul calls, but then he says that he used to foul out all the time. Don't those two things contradict each other?

[TDMVPDPOY]

The was that rambling about? He claims the NBA is weaker today than in his era because of too many foul calls, but then he says that he used to foul out all the time. Don't those two things contradict each other?

probably tic tac phantom fouls vs real fouls

[AchillesHeel]

The was that rambling about? He claims the NBA is weaker today than in his era because of too many foul calls, but then he says that he used to foul out all the time. Don't those two things contradict each other?

I think what he meant was that today's league protects the offensive player way too much. You're not allowed to play D as physically.

[Clipper Nation]

You prefer 80s ball? There's no way you were legitimately watching 80s ball when it happened, that would put you in your early 40s at best. You're not old and Korean are you?

I wasn't watching at the time obviously, but just from watching old games and highlights you can tell it was more fun to watch, tbh....

[ambchang]

Just two different brands of basketball. I can see how today's NBA is more appealing to the masses, and much more highlight friendly. Everybody can enjoy some graceful SG/SF take two dribbles from the three point line and then dunk the basketball unimpeded, but not a lot of people will enjoy some huge center perform a whole bunch of fakes, then pass out of a double team, wait for the ball again, do the same maneuver, and then look at some no-name nail a 17 foot jumper. The WNBA, as unappealing as it is, is basic fundamental basketball, while the NBA is much more of an entertainment.

That said, drive and dunks can be entertaining for so long, if you get 10 or 15 of those a game, it gets boring. The beauty of 90s basketball is to have these Jordans and Drexlers were able to pull those moves off despite heavy coverage and handchecking and all that. There were certainly less of those, just higher level of difficulty.

Also, 90s basketball defense was a lot less complex than what it is today. It's more effective because of all the leeways allowed, but you can basically ride the few defensive schemes and win games. Similar for offense, where the 90s basketball was more focused on feeding one or two main scorers (which was why the Bulls were so ridiculously successful), while basketball nowadays allows for a more spreadout approach. The reason is because perimeter players have more leeway now, and defense must sag in to avoid penetration, leaving otherwise less skilled players opened for open jumpshots (Spurs are a prime example of this, so were the D'antoni Suns). Overall, today's NBA is more similar to Euroball or college ball but with better athleticism, while 90s ball was rough and rumble.

Which one you prefer really depends on personal tastes. I am alright with either, but would say today's ball is more entertaining, while the 90s ball had genuine superstars who were able to make something out of nothing.

As for divas, there certainly were many in the 90s, and Dream Team II was a total embarrassment for the USA. Kareem was a diva that forced his way out of the Bucks, Robertson es non-stop. Divas had been around since forever. Just that different eras complain about different things. The 90s players were unafraid to show their inner city upbringing. In fact, many of them faked the toughness despite their white vanilla background (see Webber) just so that they can get more popular, you are now handing these young immature players giant contracts before their step on the court (see Big Dog Robinson), and they think they are en led to every single thing, thus divas. In today's NBA, they complain about pecking order and control of the team.

EDIT: BTW, I prefer 80s ball, up and down the court, superstars that got hacked, just fun stuff.
Also, today's superstar calls are a lot more blatant.

[LkrFan]

Just two different brands of basketball. I can see how today's NBA is more appealing to the masses, and much more highlight friendly. Everybody can enjoy some graceful SG/SF take two dribbles from the three point line and then dunk the basketball unimpeded, but not a lot of people will enjoy some huge center perform a whole bunch of fakes, then pass out of a double team, wait for the ball again, do the same maneuver, and then look at some no-name nail a 17 foot jumper. The WNBA, as unappealing as it is, is basic fundamental basketball, while the NBA is much more of an entertainment.

That said, drive and dunks can be entertaining for so long, if you get 10 or 15 of those a game, it gets boring. The beauty of 90s basketball is to have these Jordans and Drexlers were able to pull those moves off despite heavy coverage and handchecking and all that. There were certainly less of those, just higher level of difficulty.

Also, 90s basketball defense was a lot less complex than what it is today. It's more effective because of all the leeways allowed, but you can basically ride the few defensive schemes and win games. Similar for offense, where the 90s basketball was more focused on feeding one or two main scorers (which was why the Bulls were so ridiculously successful), while basketball nowadays allows for a more spreadout approach. The reason is because perimeter players have more leeway now, and defense must sag in to avoid penetration, leaving otherwise less skilled players opened for open jumpshots (Spurs are a prime example of this, so were the D'antoni Suns). Overall, today's NBA is more similar to Euroball or college ball but with better athleticism, while 90s ball was rough and rumble.

Which one you prefer really depends on personal tastes. I am alright with either, but would say today's ball is more entertaining, while the 90s ball had genuine superstars who were able to make something out of nothing.

As for divas, there certainly were many in the 90s, and Dream Team II was a total embarrassment for the USA. Kareem was a diva that forced his way out of the Bucks, Robertson es non-stop. Divas had been around since forever. Just that different eras complain about different things. The 90s players were unafraid to show their inner city upbringing. In fact, many of them faked the toughness despite their white vanilla background (see Webber) just so that they can get more popular, you are now handing these young immature players giant contracts before their step on the court (see Big Dog Robinson), and they think they are en led to every single thing, thus divas. In today's NBA, they complain about pecking order and control of the team.

EDIT: BTW, I prefer 80s ball, up and down the court, superstars that got hacked, just fun stuff.
Also, today's superstar calls are a lot more blatant.

Cliff Note this son. The word for the day is brevity. SMH

[Sean Cagney]

And for this, we all have Michael Jordan to thank.

Atleast MJ got beat the up by DETROIT for three years on end! Boston too one time! He felt the real NBA in it's prime when you could beat the out of a player and even had to face the prime Knicks team! These guys today just whine for fouls! But they are looking for the NEXT MJ and star I agree so that point you made there is true in a ways.. They want that next one so bad.

[Sean Cagney]

Just two different brands of basketball. I can see how today's NBA is more appealing to the masses, and much more highlight friendly. Everybody can enjoy some graceful SG/SF take two dribbles from the three point line and then dunk the basketball unimpeded, but not a lot of people will enjoy some huge center perform a whole bunch of fakes, then pass out of a double team, wait for the ball again, do the same maneuver, and then look at some no-name nail a 17 foot jumper. The WNBA, as unappealing as it is, is basic fundamental basketball, while the NBA is much more of an entertainment.

That said, drive and dunks can be entertaining for so long, if you get 10 or 15 of those a game, it gets boring. The beauty of 90s basketball is to have these Jordans and Drexlers were able to pull those moves off despite heavy coverage and handchecking and all that. There were certainly less of those, just higher level of difficulty.

Also, 90s basketball defense was a lot less complex than what it is today. It's more effective because of all the leeways allowed, but you can basically ride the few defensive schemes and win games. Similar for offense, where the 90s basketball was more focused on feeding one or two main scorers (which was why the Bulls were so ridiculously successful), while basketball nowadays allows for a more spreadout approach. The reason is because perimeter players have more leeway now, and defense must sag in to avoid penetration, leaving otherwise less skilled players opened for open jumpshots (Spurs are a prime example of this, so were the D'antoni Suns). Overall, today's NBA is more similar to Euroball or college ball but with better athleticism, while 90s ball was rough and rumble.

Which one you prefer really depends on personal tastes. I am alright with either, but would say today's ball is more entertaining, while the 90s ball had genuine superstars who were able to make something out of nothing.

As for divas, there certainly were many in the 90s, and Dream Team II was a total embarrassment for the USA. Kareem was a diva that forced his way out of the Bucks, Robertson es non-stop. Divas had been around since forever. Just that different eras complain about different things. The 90s players were unafraid to show their inner city upbringing. In fact, many of them faked the toughness despite their white vanilla background (see Webber) just so that they can get more popular, you are now handing these young immature players giant contracts before their step on the court (see Big Dog Robinson), and they think they are en led to every single thing, thus divas. In today's NBA, they complain about pecking order and control of the team.

EDIT: BTW, I prefer 80s ball, up and down the court, superstars that got hacked, just fun stuff.
Also, today's superstar calls are a lot more blatant.

Damn this post is dead on.......

[HI-FI]

Cliff Note this son. The word for the day is brevity. SMH

Sólo dos marcas diferentes de baloncesto. Puedo ver cómo la NBA de hoy es más atractivo para las masas , y mucho más destaco de usar. Todo el mundo puede disfrutar de un poco agraciado SG / SF tomar dos regates desde la línea de tres puntos y luego encestar la pelota de baloncesto sin obstáculos , pero no un montón de gente va a disfrutar de un gran centro de realizar un montón de falsificaciones , a continuación, pasar de un doble equipo, espere por la pelota de nuevo, no la misma maniobra , y luego ver algunos sin nombre clavo un puente de 17 pies . La WNBA, tan poco atractiva como es, es fundamental el baloncesto de base, mientras que la NBA es mucho más que un entretenimiento .

Dicho esto , el empuje y dunks puede ser entretenido por mucho tiempo, si tienes 10 o 15 de los que un juego, se vuelve aburrido . La belleza de los años 90 el baloncesto es tener estos Jordans y Drexlers fueron capaces de tirar de esos movimientos a pesar de la cobertura y handchecking pesada y todo eso. Es cierto que existen menos de esos, sólo un mayor nivel de dificultad.

Además, de los 90 la defensa de baloncesto era mucho menos complejo de lo que es hoy. Es más efectivo , porque de todos los Leeways permitidos , pero se puede montar básicamente los pocos esquemas defensivos y ganar partidos . Similares para la ofensiva , donde el baloncesto de los 90 estaba más centrada en la alimentación de una o dos goleadores principales (que era por eso que los Bulls fueron tan ridículamente exitosa ) , mientras que el baloncesto permite hoy en día para un enfoque más spreadout . La razón es porque los jugadores perimetrales tienen más libertad ahora , y la defensa deben ceder para evitar la penetración , dejando lo contrario los jugadores menos hábiles abiertos para jumpshots abiertos ( Spurs son un buen ejemplo de esto, así que fueron los Suns D' antoni ) . En general, la NBA de hoy es más similar a Euroball o bola de la universidad, pero con una mejor forma física , mientras que 90s pelota era áspera y estruendo .

Cuál te gusta realmente depende de los gustos personales. Estoy bien con cualquiera , pero diría que el baile de hoy en día es más entretenido , mientras el balón 90 tenía auténticas superestrellas que fueron capaces de hacer algo de la nada .

En cuanto a las divas , había ciertamente muchos en los años 90 , y Dream Team II fue una vergüenza total para los EE.UU.. Kareem fue una diva que forzó su salida de los Bucks , Robertson perras sin parar. Divas habían existido desde siempre. Sólo que diferentes épocas se quejan de cosas diferentes. Los jugadores de 90 fueron sin miedo a mostrar su crianza interior de la ciudad . De hecho , muchos de ellos fingió la tenacidad a pesar de su fondo de vainilla blanca (ver Webber ) sólo para que puedan conseguir más popular, que ahora está entregando estos jugadores jóvenes inmaduros contratos gigantes antes de su paso en la cancha (ver Big Dog Robinson) , y creen que tienen derecho a cada cosa , así divas . En la NBA de hoy, que se quejan de orden y control del equipo de picoteo .

EDIT: BTW , yo prefiero los 80 minutos, y por la cancha , las superestrellas que han pirateado , sólo cosas divertidas.
Además, las llamadas de la superestrella de hoy son mucho más flagrante.

[LkrFan]

Sólo dos marcas diferentes de baloncesto. Puedo ver cómo la NBA de hoy es más atractivo para las masas , y mucho más destaco de usar. Todo el mundo puede disfrutar de un poco agraciado SG / SF tomar dos regates desde la línea de tres puntos y luego encestar la pelota de baloncesto sin obstáculos , pero no un montón de gente va a disfrutar de un gran centro de realizar un montón de falsificaciones , a continuación, pasar de un doble equipo, espere por la pelota de nuevo, no la misma maniobra , y luego ver algunos sin nombre clavo un puente de 17 pies . La WNBA, tan poco atractiva como es, es fundamental el baloncesto de base, mientras que la NBA es mucho más que un entretenimiento .

Dicho esto , el empuje y dunks puede ser entretenido por mucho tiempo, si tienes 10 o 15 de los que un juego, se vuelve aburrido . La belleza de los años 90 el baloncesto es tener estos Jordans y Drexlers fueron capaces de tirar de esos movimientos a pesar de la cobertura y handchecking pesada y todo eso. Es cierto que existen menos de esos, sólo un mayor nivel de dificultad.

Además, de los 90 la defensa de baloncesto era mucho menos complejo de lo que es hoy. Es más efectivo , porque de todos los Leeways permitidos , pero se puede montar básicamente los pocos esquemas defensivos y ganar partidos . Similares para la ofensiva , donde el baloncesto de los 90 estaba más centrada en la alimentación de una o dos goleadores principales (que era por eso que los Bulls fueron tan ridículamente exitosa ) , mientras que el baloncesto permite hoy en día para un enfoque más spreadout . La razón es porque los jugadores perimetrales tienen más libertad ahora , y la defensa deben ceder para evitar la penetración , dejando lo contrario los jugadores menos hábiles abiertos para jumpshots abiertos ( Spurs son un buen ejemplo de esto, así que fueron los Suns D' antoni ) . En general, la NBA de hoy es más similar a Euroball o bola de la universidad, pero con una mejor forma física , mientras que 90s pelota era áspera y estruendo .

Cuál te gusta realmente depende de los gustos personales. Estoy bien con cualquiera , pero diría que el baile de hoy en día es más entretenido , mientras el balón 90 tenía auténticas superestrellas que fueron capaces de hacer algo de la nada .

En cuanto a las divas , había ciertamente muchos en los años 90 , y Dream Team II fue una vergüenza total para los EE.UU.. Kareem fue una diva que forzó su salida de los Bucks , Robertson perras sin parar. Divas habían existido desde siempre. Sólo que diferentes épocas se quejan de cosas diferentes. Los jugadores de 90 fueron sin miedo a mostrar su crianza interior de la ciudad . De hecho , muchos de ellos fingió la tenacidad a pesar de su fondo de vainilla blanca (ver Webber ) sólo para que puedan conseguir más popular, que ahora está entregando estos jugadores jóvenes inmaduros contratos gigantes antes de su paso en la cancha (ver Big Dog Robinson) , y creen que tienen derecho a cada cosa , así divas . En la NBA de hoy, que se quejan de orden y control del equipo de picoteo .

EDIT: BTW , yo prefiero los 80 minutos, y por la cancha , las superestrellas que han pirateado , sólo cosas divertidas.
Además, las llamadas de la superestrella de hoy son mucho más flagrante.

[Stalin]

Just two different brands of basketball. I can see how today's NBA is more appealing to the masses, and much more highlight friendly. Everybody can enjoy some graceful SG/SF take two dribbles from the three point line and then dunk the basketball unimpeded, but not a lot of people will enjoy some huge center perform a whole bunch of fakes, then pass out of a double team, wait for the ball again, do the same maneuver, and then look at some no-name nail a 17 foot jumper. The WNBA, as unappealing as it is, is basic fundamental basketball, while the NBA is much more of an entertainment.

That said, drive and dunks can be entertaining for so long, if you get 10 or 15 of those a game, it gets boring. The beauty of 90s basketball is to have these Jordans and Drexlers were able to pull those moves off despite heavy coverage and handchecking and all that. There were certainly less of those, just higher level of difficulty.

Also, 90s basketball defense was a lot less complex than what it is today. It's more effective because of all the leeways allowed, but you can basically ride the few defensive schemes and win games. Similar for offense, where the 90s basketball was more focused on feeding one or two main scorers (which was why the Bulls were so ridiculously successful), while basketball nowadays allows for a more spreadout approach. The reason is because perimeter players have more leeway now, and defense must sag in to avoid penetration, leaving otherwise less skilled players opened for open jumpshots (Spurs are a prime example of this, so were the D'antoni Suns). Overall, today's NBA is more similar to Euroball or college ball but with better athleticism, while 90s ball was rough and rumble.

Which one you prefer really depends on personal tastes. I am alright with either, but would say today's ball is more entertaining, while the 90s ball had genuine superstars who were able to make something out of nothing.

As for divas, there certainly were many in the 90s, and Dream Team II was a total embarrassment for the USA. Kareem was a diva that forced his way out of the Bucks, Robertson es non-stop. Divas had been around since forever. Just that different eras complain about different things. The 90s players were unafraid to show their inner city upbringing. In fact, many of them faked the toughness despite their white vanilla background (see Webber) just so that they can get more popular, you are now handing these young immature players giant contracts before their step on the court (see Big Dog Robinson), and they think they are en led to every single thing, thus divas. In today's NBA, they complain about pecking order and control of the team.

EDIT: BTW, I prefer 80s ball, up and down the court, superstars that got hacked, just fun stuff.
Also, today's superstar calls are a lot more blatant.

5 star essay, will read again and recommend to family and friends

[ambchang]

Cliff Note this son. The word for the day is brevity. SMH

Learn to read son. The word of the day is read.