Where are all those FO haters at now?

[Mugen]

I'd still prefer Dallas. Memphis is running a train on OKC right now... their offense is really streaky, but they have some clutch defense, beating OKC in 3 overtime games. The OT wins will help Memphis in the second round against the Clippers as well.

Memphis is being greatly aided by OKC's reliance on isoball. The Grizzlies can load up their defense and sell out on Durant/Westbrook while ignoring Perk/Thabo/etc. They wouldn't be able to do that with the Spurs. Allen would not be nearly as effective as he is right now if he played the Spurs, a team that doesn't rely on free throws to be elite offensively. All the success that OKC is having on defense, the Spurs could easily replicate as well...

Plus, they just can't score enough to hang with San Antonio tbh. The Spurs would end up getting better shots than the Grizzlies (something not happening with OKC right now) and have better shooters taking them over the course of the series as we saw in last year's WCF.

Carlisle being the 2nd best coach in the league and elite offensively should be enough to make the Mavs a tougher opponent IMO.

[sexinthatsx]

Memphis is being greatly aided by OKC's reliance on isoball. The Grizzlies can load up their defense and sell out on Durant/Westbrook while ignoring Perk/Thabo/etc. They wouldn't be able to do that with the Spurs. Allen would not be nearly as effective as he is right now if he played the Spurs, a team that doesn't rely on free throws to be elite offensively. All the success that OKC is having on defense, the Spurs could easily replicate as well...

Plus, they just can't score enough to hang with San Antonio tbh. The Spurs would end up getting better shots than the Grizzlies (something not happening with OKC right now) and have better shooters taking them over the course of the series as we saw in last year's WCF.

Carlisle being the 2nd best coach in the league and elite offensively should be enough to make the Mavs a tougher opponent IMO.

Part of the reason why I saw Dallas instead of Memphis is because the Grizzlies play more physical than Mavs. Everybody on the Mavs team is pretty much there to hit jump shots. Heck, Samuel Dalembert sucks at scoring, he's only there to secure rebounds for the team. This would eventually wear the Spurs down if it goes to 6 or 7 games. It's a close call though, since Spurs have been scarred in the past by Mavs (at least more so than the Grizzlies)

[Mugen]

I'd take a physical 5 game series with Memphis over a potential 7 game series with Dirk & Co. tbh.

[lowdown]

Man, I don't feel like reading all the griping after watching a great win but I did read some of Cry Havoc's post and I agree with his main take. Every goddamn one of you that thinks they are so ing smart that they would do this or that differently then the front office as you sit in your chair typing your genius words should remember one thing: this awesome experience that you are witnessing as a Spurs fan in the 2000s is not going to last forever. Eventually this dynasty will end - Phil Jackson - and then you we'll really be able to find your true happiness. You can be 2nd-guessing some GM and/or coach as the Silver & Black aspire to be mediocre as they ac ulate ping-pong balls. They offer Taco Cabana coupons to free agents. Give NBA superstars the chance to be King Antonio if they would just sign on the dotted line. Then when you realize that these games you've been accustomed to where all of us fans in our pants fearing Ginobili will turn over the ball, Splitter will miss the basket as he attempts to dunk, or Parker dribbles and dribbles and dribble as the shot clock winds down and then they lose at the end is way better then what's going to happen next when there's no Popovich/Buford. Spurs fans think championships are like those King Antonio gold chips. Wake up, those gold coins are fake! This Spurs era is for real. I was yelling at the TV like all of you with that ty pick-n-roll defense they were playing early in the series but criticizing the front office right now 'cause Belinelli can't play D is ridiculous. Don't let that Ray Allen shot make you think that Duncan won't get a ring this year until the season is truly over. Peace...

[dg7md]

Beli is less of a fluke shooter than Green is and I think he'll hit some big shots late into the playoffs.

[ElNono]

In my opinion, Pop should be fine with letting Green draw his man and the rest of the players to play 4-on-4. If he wants Green to score more, he needs to call plays for him like he did in last year's WCSF when the Warriors were hiding Curry on him. I know Beli is supposed to be a more dynamic offensive player, and thusly a harder guard than Green is, but Danny can put a ton of pressure on a defense when the team needs him to. Pop just has to decide that he wants to make Green an explicit part of the offense. If Pop wants him to be a mere spot-up shooter, he's not going to do much in this series offensively. But , it's not like Beli's expanded offensive repertoire has manifested itself much this whole season.

The problem with going 4-4 is that Calderon rests. And he's the guy that makes Tony work on the other end. And Danny won't be part of the offense when you have options like TD/TP/Kawhi and even Thiago out there. Especially if we're not even going to his forté, the 3 point shot. Carlisle would love if we run our offense by making Danny put the ball on the floor with all the other options out there. I'm not saying Marco has been any better, but I think the idea is, as you said, to pretend that Marco is a much more dynamic player and he requires more defensive attention. In theory anyways, since it hasn't worked (yet).

[said7]

Man, I don't feel like reading all the griping after watching a great win but I did read some of Cry Havoc's post and I agree with his main take. Every goddamn one of you that thinks they are so ing smart that they would do this or that differently then the front office as you sit in your chair typing your genius words should remember one thing: this awesome experience that you are witnessing as a Spurs fan in the 2000s is not going to last forever. Eventually this dynasty will end - Phil Jackson - and then you we'll really be able to find your true happiness. You can be 2nd-guessing some GM and/or coach as the Silver & Black aspire to be mediocre as they ac ulate ping-pong balls. They offer Taco Cabana coupons to free agents. Give NBA superstars the chance to be King Antonio if they would just sign on the dotted line. Then when you realize that these games you've been accustomed to where all of us fans in our pants fearing Ginobili will turn over the ball, Splitter will miss the basket as he attempts to dunk, or Parker dribbles and dribbles and dribble as the shot clock winds down and then they lose at the end is way better then what's going to happen next when there's no Popovich/Buford. Spurs fans think championships are like those King Antonio gold chips. Wake up, those gold coins are fake! This Spurs era is for real. I was yelling at the TV like all of you with that ty pick-n-roll defense they were playing early in the series but criticizing the front office right now 'cause Belinelli can't play D is ridiculous. Don't let that Ray Allen shot make you think that Duncan won't get a ring this year until the season is truly over. Peace...

True nuff. Some people are just born complainers. Will be till they die.

[Capt Bringdown]

I guess a game 4 win against an 8th seed proves everything. No matter when the Human Turnover Machine is losing championships that we had in the bag.

[100%duncan]

Funny, I don't see any disagreement on your post.

Want to know who? Go back to the offseason threads where I was blasting Ayres and Marco signings and find out. And add demarre Carroll. This isn't hindsight for Marco and Ayres, when others were talking up Ayres and calling him a better malik rose, I was correctly punting out how he was terrible and an awful user of the MLE. When Marco's name was being connected to the spurs, I was one of those calling him a lateral move as a slightly taller Neal.

Wow you seem much wiser than the FO you highly criticize. Nice suggestion genius.

[100%duncan]

And oh only in ST, where fans expect role-players to average like superstars. "If you no carry us the whole 82 games you're baaaaad!" s

[russellgoat]

Congratulations for winning with the help of the refs...

[xmas1997]

Congratulations for winning with the help of the refs...

You either have lost your mind, or you did not see the games because the Spurs NEVER EVER have help from the refs, they hate the Spurs and always have IMHO.
They almost always have to play against the other team and the refs too, and it has been this this way ever since they moved to San Antonio!

[Chinook]

Beli is less of a fluke shooter than Green is and I think he'll hit some big shots late into the playoffs.

Don't know where you got that idea, but Beli was streaky as this season. Pretty much, Marco started out hot and faded, while Danny started out cold warmed up as the season progressed.

The problem with going 4-4 is that Calderon rests. And he's the guy that makes Tony work on the other end. And Danny won't be part of the offense when you have options like TD/TP/Kawhi and even Thiago out there. Especially if we're not even going to his forté, the 3 point shot. Carlisle would love if we run our offense by making Danny put the ball on the floor with all the other options out there. I'm not saying Marco has been any better, but I think the idea is, as you said, to pretend that Marco is a much more dynamic player and he requires more defensive attention. In theory anyways, since it hasn't worked (yet).

I think the two-guard isn't supposed to do much by the design of the offense. I was talking to Hoop Czar a couple of weeks ago about that. I think the Spurs offense has "modes" as opposed to just plays or sets. In Parker Mode, the two-guard pretty much just spots up as to not interfere with Tony's drives. In Manu Mode, the wings can cut to the basket, since Ginobili shoots threes and doesn't need to drive to create like Parker does. Green mode is all about him getting screens and running the sideline PnR with Duncan or Splitter.

I don't see any two-guard besides Manu being more than a spot-up shooter when Parker is on the floor for this series, and Manu only really has success because the Spurs will play in a hybrid mode when they have two creators on the perimeter. Unless Pop wants to start calling screens to get open shots, he's just going to have to accept the spacing the Mavs are allowing as a trade-off for Calderon resting.

[vander]

Spurs FO still riding Duncan's coattails tbh

[ElNono]

I think the two-guard isn't supposed to do much by the design of the offense. I was talking to Hoop Czar a couple of weeks ago about that. I think the Spurs offense has "modes" as opposed to just plays or sets. In Parker Mode, the two-guard pretty much just spots up as to not interfere with Tony's drives. In Manu Mode, the wings can cut to the basket, since Ginobili shoots threes and doesn't need to drive to create like Parker does. Green mode is all about him getting screens and running the sideline PnR with Duncan or Splitter.

I don't see any two-guard besides Manu being more than a spot-up shooter when Parker is on the floor for this series, and Manu only really has success because the Spurs will play in a hybrid mode when they have two creators on the perimeter. Unless Pop wants to start calling screens to get open shots, he's just going to have to accept the spacing the Mavs are allowing as a trade-off for Calderon resting.

That's not entirely correct. The Spurs primary P&R with Tim/Tony borrows a lot of off the ball movement from motion offense, especially the cuts. There's too many combos to put in one post, and they change depending on wether it's a straight P&R (Tony does the entry pass) or a 4-down (Kawhi does the entry pass). Action really starts once Tim is posted up. There's different variations, but for example, if it's a straight P&R, you'll normally see the SF make a hard cut to the basket, screened by the other big, finishing his run on the opposite corner. The SG who was on that corner will rotate to take the SF spot on the 3 point line. Now wether the SG gets the open look depends on a lot of factors: Tim having the passing lane, the defense actually collapsing and leaving the SG open, etc. If it's a 4-down, then it's a bit different, because the SF will cut baseline and then you get a bunch of new options: either stops the run under the basket and gets it back, runs to the opposite corner (in this case, the SG makes the hard cut to the basket, and the SF rotates). There's a lot off the ball movement (or should be, it's not always the case), some decoy, some legit options. But eventually it boils down to what the defense gives you. If they're not giving you a lot, then option 1A and 1B are Tony/Tim... that's not going to change.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Belinelli has always been a low-impact player, tbh.. His defensive on/off metrics are as bad as any wing player in the NBA over the past 5 seasons..

He's fine as a luxury player used in specific scenarios that require shooting/scoring, but when Pop is using him at the expense of Danny Green's defense(Green averaged 32 MPG in last year's playoffs), it hurts the team..

You can make the argument that his playmaking ability was the reason the Spurs signed him, in an attempt to relieve Manu of all the responsibility, but the Spurs have barely used Belinelli as a creator this season, so I'm not sure if I buy that..

I love this take. Beli/ayers, neal/blair... I think the fo did ok. I def think there was an upgrade. Especially in beli.

The problem is the impact on rotation. Green seems to have been negatively affected. Id argue the same for baynes/nando.

Why in the world is Malcolm Thomas gone and austin daye here? Better or worse, why go through all that? Mle sf and open spot/min-deal big were the obvious plays. How does "the best fo in the league" miss that?

[Arcadian]

I still feel like Belinelli is going to prove crucial at some point. It's good to have a deadly shooter off the bench. Even though his shot's been off lately, I don't think that will continue forever.

[Chinook]

That's not entirely correct. The Spurs primary P&R with Tim/Tony borrows a lot of off the ball movement from motion offense, especially the cuts. There's too many combos to put in one post, and they change depending on wether it's a straight P&R (Tony does the entry pass) or a 4-down (Kawhi does the entry pass). Action really starts once Tim is posted up. There's different variations, but for example, if it's a straight P&R, you'll normally see the SF make a hard cut to the basket, screened by the other big, finishing his run on the opposite corner. The SG who was on that corner will rotate to take the SF spot on the 3 point line. Now wether the SG gets the open look depends on a lot of factors: Tim having the passing lane, the defense actually collapsing and leaving the SG open, etc. If it's a 4-down, then it's a bit different, because the SF will cut baseline and then you get a bunch of new options: either stops the run under the basket and gets it back, runs to the opposite corner (in this case, the SG makes the hard cut to the basket, and the SF rotates). There's a lot off the ball movement (or should be, it's not always the case), some decoy, some legit options. But eventually it boils down to what the defense gives you. If they're not giving you a lot, then option 1A and 1B are Tony/Tim... that's not going to change.

Lots of good insight there, Nono. I agree. I was oversimplifying things. I didn't mean to imply that the shooters don't move throughout the play. I knew that. In fact, Green is usually the one who directs the perimeter movement. I was more trying to say that it's not Green's passiveness that is keeping him from scoring. He's running the plays the way they're called, and Beli would do the same. I feel the Spurs aren't even getting to the options that include Green cutting or having to create on his own very often because the Mavs are struggling so badly to contain to initial penetration. Unless he gets plays called for him, Green is supposed to be a safety valve in the offense. Dallas hasn't defended well enough to open the valve yet.

[ElNono]

Lots of good insight there, Nono. I agree. I was oversimplifying things. I didn't mean to imply that the shooters don't move throughout the play. I knew that. In fact, Green is usually the one who directs the perimeter movement. I was more trying to say that it's not Green's passiveness that is keeping him from scoring. He's running the plays the way they're called, and Beli would do the same. I feel the Spurs aren't even getting to the options that include Green cutting or having to create on his own very often because the Mavs are struggling so badly to contain to initial penetration. Unless he gets plays called for him, Green is supposed to be a safety valve in the offense. Dallas hasn't defended well enough to open the valve yet.

There's two factors at play in this series: Dallas is grabbing and bumping quite a bit off the ball, and there's also the Spurs sometimes staying put and not moving. The former is good coaching by Carlisle, but the latter is on the players. Hopefully tomorrow we can just move on. I think Rick is a great coach, and I'm not sure other coaches are as good keeping their team disciplined enough to defend like that.

[baseline bum]

The front office watched the lakers beat a Robinson/Duncan team in back to back to back les because they could not surround Robinson/Duncan with enough backcourt talent.

But then they were boring when they put the best backcourt in the league next to Duncan and won 3 les

[NickiRasgo]

They should've sign Carroll instead of Ayers.

[Chinook]

There's two factors at play in this series: Dallas is grabbing and bumping quite a bit off the ball, and there's also the Spurs sometimes staying put and not moving. The former is good coaching by Carlisle, but the latter is on the players. Hopefully tomorrow we can just move on. I think Rick is a great coach, and I'm not sure other coaches are as good keeping their team disciplined enough to defend like that.

I think Portland would try Dallas' strategy, betting that Lillard and Aldridge could outscore Parker and Duncan (which would be a good bet). Houston would probably rely on Howard and Asik to lock down the paint, and even if they wanted to do what the Mavs are doing, they don't really have the intangibles to pull it off.

[Chinook]

They should've sign Carroll instead of Ayers.

They didn't have the money, and it wouldn't have made sense to sign two wings. It was almost irresponsible for them not to trade for a big, though.

[ElNono]

I think Portland would try Dallas' strategy, betting that Lillard and Aldridge could outscore Parker and Duncan (which would be a good bet). Houston would probably rely on Howard and Asik to lock down the paint, and even if they wanted to do what the Mavs are doing, they don't really have the intangibles to pull it off.

I don't think either team can pull it off as consistently as Dallas did... there's more at play than just "switch". The Spurs actually became free a bit the last couple of games, especially Patty and Boris. It takes a lot of discipline to lock down movement like that. Obviously, we need to get past Dallas first, but Portland and Houston would bring different challenges. I'm especially wary of Houston, because we've been doing a poor job covering the 3 point line.

[wildchild]

Never FO hater, but the same I said at the start of this season, I say again now, they didn't find a decent SF backup and didn't improve the roster.

Obviously, we need to get past Dallas first, but Portland and Houston would bring different challenges.

Agree about the different challenges and strategies. Dallas isn't a bad matchup as POR/HOU are. Lillard/Aldridge and Harden were nightmare matchups for the Spurs all regular season.

Against Dallas Pop has failed to prevail Spurs system over Carlise plans.
For example. Mavs had taken our shooter out and how Pop reacts? he limited Green's minutes, and that destroyed our perimeter defense.

Before game 5:
Opponent Field Goal Percentage: Regular season 44%, Playoffs 47.1%
Opponent 3PT Field Goal Percentage: RS 35.3%, PO 37.1%
Opponent Points: RS 97.6 points, PO 102.3 points
Defensive Rating: RS 100.1 points per 100 possessions, PO 108.2 points per 100 possessions

Also, I don't understand why Pop doesn't want -or realize how- involve Leonard the Spurs offense.
If the Spurs look for Leonard on the offensive end, that's the way to force defenders to focus on him, so the Mavs could put Marion on Leonard for big part of game -not only for 1 or 2 possessions like last game- and Calderon or Ellis should guard Parker, and that could be great for Parker and the Spurs.

These playoffs touches stats worried me because how a player to be aggressive if his coach never puts the ball in his hands.
After 5 games:
Tony 82,65
Tim 66,25
Manu 59,5
Boris 40
Leonard 38,70