So if we're talking survival here, if we were to evolve for survival, we would only need meat. Not fruits. Not vegetables. Not coffee beans. Not rice. Not wheat. So why are they here?
If everything that exists in life were to be for strict survival reasons, we wouldn't have much of what we enjoy but don't need. If (in my opinion) evolution really existed, we would be extremely bored and act like machines. (much like animals do)
Did it ever occur to you that animals (besides the ones we need for the earth to function properly in our favor) were created for our entertainment and enjoyment? What purpose do dogs have? Cats? Birds?
Ever wonder why a puppy always makes us laugh or just smile at the funny stuff it does? Huh? We certainly don't need that to survive.
Last edited by TOP-CHERRY; 08-25-2005 at 07:43 PM.
taste buds do have a purpose, at least from an evolutionary standpoint
the thing is, you can say tastebuds are so complex that god must have built them for us
but when studies are done we keep finding more and more data that simply happen to agree with evolution
taste buds kept primitve man from being poisoned...if something tasted disgusting it was most likely poison, rotten, infected, etc
if something tastes awesome its most likely ripe, fresh, etc
But I ask again: If we would have evolved strictly for survival reasons, we would only need one food source; 2 at most, just like the animals do.
What purpose in surviving do fruits, vegetables, etc. etc. have? We certainly don't need them. Why have them at our disposition?
that is a very common misconceptionIf (in my opinion) evolution really existed, we would be extremely bored and act like machines. (much like animals do
LOL
well if you are talking dogs and cats....humans bred these dogs and cats from wild ass kicking beasts for thousands of years....in other words we artificially selected for the traits we would like in dogs and cats
the mere fact that humans could breed the male with the best nose and the female with the best nose, and continue to do this for hundreds of generations, then end up with a dog that is the most 3lit3 hunting companion in the face of the earth all supports evolution (selection is part of evolution)
these are common misconceptions
what evolution has given the human being is a set of possible outcomes and possible decisions, not unlike a program, but its not fatalistic. what has evolved is our ability to think logically to think every decision to the finest detail, also our ability to choose what we like what we dont like.
i can honestly say i ing hate dogs and seeing one wagging its tail and barking at me and jumping on me pisses me off to no end
evolution does not mean we don't have free will, this is a common misconception
First of all, survival is not the only reason things evolve. Survival, growth, and reproduction are the reasons things evolve.
but you're thinking inside a box man
what do fruits vegetables have to do with human taste buds? absolutely nothing...
other animals eat them, more commonly, cuz they happened to be there in the same environment either long term or short term
from the vegetable standpoint they have their own DNA that wants to replicate more veggies that doesn't give a about the DNA in our bodies or the DNA in animals bodies...they werne't made to help our DNA reproduce.
you're thinking from the standpoint that everything in the earth that was made for us, it wasnt
the dna that decided to group with other dna that eventually became plants, fruits, vegetables, doesn't have anything to do with the dna that grouped together to form us, which is why we're seperate organisms
once organisms were formed, organisms began to co-evolve, and this did happen...if you look at animals like you say, they have canines or flat teeth....the ones with sharp teeth eat meat, the ones with flat teeth eat plants....but if you take time to look in your mirror and open your mouth you see a vareity of teeth
why?
well evolution says (and you should agree with this...) that humans are different from every different species on earth
we can collaborate, communicate, think of new things, want new things, we have the most advanced brain EVER
so what is to prevent a primitve human from getting sick of eating wild Mastadon and deciding to eat a plant? Nothing! What is to prevent that human from realizing plants can be grown and provide a source of food that doesn't have to be hunted...Nothing!
if the tribe of this primitive human had a glut of vegetables in their environment and NO meat for the longest period of time, and they had to eat vegetables, the humans that had flatter teeth would survive better htan those with mostly sharp teeth.....this is the kind of thing evolution says
such is the beauty of humans
something u all must keep in mind is that true heart of evolution says that each little peice of DNA in this world is interested in only one thing:
REPLICATION
and the DNA thats in bananas wants to replicate more than the DNA in squash, the DNA in monkeys, and the DNA in humans
each organism in today's world represents a union of several peices of DNA that are able to REPLICATE at an optimum rate....much more efficiently than if they were seperate, each little segment in a different bacterium or something
replication is the key
Misconceptions of what? That we wouldn't act like machines isn't a fact, nor a certainty.
And it's not a possibility that these decisions to choose were created for us, and not by us?what evolution has given the human being is a set of possible outcomes and possible decisions, not unlike a program, but its not fatalistic. what has evolved is our ability to think logically to think every decision to the finest detail, also our ability to choose what we like what we dont like.
Dogs, okay. I forgot about that. What about cats? And birds? Why the do we need tigers? Snow tigers? Leopards? Pumas? Isn't one big cat enough?
I'm sorry to hear that.i can honestly say i ing hate dogs and seeing one wagging its tail and barking at me and jumping on me pisses me off to no end
evolution does not mean we don't have free will, this is a common misconception
Growth is for survival.
Reproduction is also for survival.
What's your point?
That all the flavors of fruits and vegetables are pleasing to our taste buds. Food we don't necessarily need.what do fruits vegetables have to do with human taste buds? absolutely nothing...
Yeah, they don't give a crap, just like we don't give a crap that they don't give a crap. Which is why we consume them. What's their purpose in life other than for our consumption?from the vegetable standpoint they have their own DNA that wants to replicate more veggies that doesn't give a about the DNA in our bodies or the DNA in animals bodies...they werne't made to help our DNA reproduce.
Believe me, I understand what reasoning you're coming from, and if I were to believe in evolution, I would use the same ones.the dna that decided to group with other dna that eventually became plants, fruits, vegetables, doesn't have anything to do with the dna that grouped together to form us, which is why we're seperate organisms
once organisms were formed, organisms began to co-evolve, and this did happen...if you look at animals like you say, they have canines or flat teeth....the ones with sharp teeth eat meat, the ones with flat teeth eat plants....but if you take time to look in your mirror and open your mouth you see a vareity of teeth
why?
well evolution says (and you should agree with this...) that humans are different from every different species on earth
we can collaborate, communicate, think of new things, want new things, we have the most advanced brain EVER
so what is to prevent a primitve human from getting sick of eating wild Mastadon and deciding to eat a plant? Nothing! What is to prevent that human from realizing plants can be grown and provide a source of food that doesn't have to be hunted...Nothing!
if the tribe of this primitive human had a glut of vegetables in their environment and NO meat for the longest period of time, and they had to eat vegetables, the humans that had flatter teeth would survive better htan those with mostly sharp teeth.....this is the kind of thing evolution says
such is the beauty of humans
Yay! We both agree humans are a beauty. It just so happens that I think they're a beauty for their complexity, which leads me to be in awe of the intelligence our creator has.
You just so happen to be in awe of how we ourselves became what we are... just in different ways.
But I guess it's worthless arguing about it, since our beliefs are so strongly-rooted, huh?
I believe in Evolution.
Misconceptions of what? That we wouldn't act like machines isn't a fact, nor a certainty.
And it's not a possibility that these decisions to choose were created for us, and not by us?
Dogs, okay. I forgot about that. What about cats? And birds? Why the do we need tigers? Snow tigers? Leopards? Pumas? Isn't one big cat enough?
I'm sorry to hear that.
Growth is for survival.
Reproduction is also for survival.
What's your point?
That all the flavors of fruits and vegetables are pleasing to our taste buds. Food we don't necessarily need.
Yeah, they don't give a crap, just like we don't give a crap that they don't give a crap. Which is why we consume them. What's their purpose in life other than for our consumption?
Believe me, I understand what reasoning you're coming from, and if I were to believe in evolution, I would use the same ones.
Yay! We both agree humans are a beauty. It just so happens that I think they're a beauty for their complexity, which leads me to be in awe of the intelligence our creator had.
You just so happen to be in awe of how we ourselves became what we are... just in different ways.
But I guess it's worthless arguing about it, huh?
you have a very wrong misconception that everything in this world should have a purpose that fits human needs...thats why i was talking about replication....replication replication replication....
u say what purpose do leopards, pumas serve....but you really mean to say what purpose do they serve to humans....and in todays world that purpose is food and entertainment....in the primitive world they probably OWNED us and we were scared to all of them
this is the misconception i speak of....humans are not the center of the ing universe, they're not the center of the world, they are a ridiculously advanced species of organism that is currently destroying every ecosystem and haven for anything that isn't one of them....this line of reasoning of yours...that all animals, plants, etc, should serve a human purpose is part of the reason why this world is being destroyed...
we are so tied up in God this and everything serving a human purpose that we forget even the bible says (ok, i HOPE it says)
all life is sacred!!!
the one thing you say t hat i really cant think of much an answer to is why the nuts, veggies, etc have a taste that is palatable to human beings
this may sound repe ive, but i think the evolutionist would say that in the past, there came a time when it paid humans to eat plants...and those humans who found plants tasty survived and replicated more than those who thought plants tasted like rancid
get it?
the point is its not survival that is the point, its replicationGrowth is for survival.
Reproduction is also for survival.
What's your point?
survival, growth, and reproduction serve the purpose of replication
growth and reproduction do not serve the purpose of survival
you have to stop thinking that humans are not subject to the rules...yes humans are beautiful and awesome and the most advanced but this doesn't make us gods, this doesn't mean that each individual human being was given the supernatural right to survive any more than the individual bacterium that is destroyed when u wash your hands with soap
when it comes down to it, nature rules us all
we're subject to the same rules every other animal is, the only difference is we're so ing advanced that we're able to sustain time lags for longer periods
do you seriously think if humans keep reproduction at an exponential rate that this earth is going to survive????? one day, the plants will be gone, the food will be gone, and we'll still be talking about how creationism or intelligent design is better than evolution, all the while our entire people will be starving and crowded to death
we're animals just like anything else, we're organisms just like anything else....just because we're at the peak of the evolutionary chain doesn't mean we're going to be here forever
there have been so many ing millions of species that have gone completely extinct and remain totally unknown to us after mass extinctions...for all we know there could have been an animal millinos of years ago with many of our capacities....but when a meteor struck, when the climate changed, they faced the consequences just like everything else...................and the strongest survived to reproduce into the future
TOP-CHERRY you're asking questions after he's explaining them to you and then you ask why.............
cbf drops knowledge
dont even get him started on Statistics (with a capitol S)
I disagree.
Sincerely,
Popeye
i like vittles
Same Biblie which talks about animal sacrifices to God.
Which is a large part of the reason why I believe we are definitely superior in all regards to animals. Animals don't love. They don't think enough past filling their stomachs, crapping, and making more of their kind. We are the only beings who know what species we are. We are the only ones who wonder why we are here. The only ones who wonder if there's a God or not. The only ones who know what death is. Or like Octavio Paz said: “Solitude is the profoundest fact of the human condition. Man is the only being who knows he is alone.”
We certainly are the only ones who can worship God. Nothing else leads me to believe God intended for animals to worship him. Why place them in a pedestal if that's not their purpose?
Again, we're coming from different beliefs, and maybe all the things I just said mean nothing to you, because you don't believe in a higher being. An omnipotent one who I know in my heart to believe created us above the animals for a reason.
I just believe the answer to be very simple as to how we were made. That's my belief. And the fact that I believe, and animals don't, is a major reason why I argued all I did in regards to their "service" to us.
I just believe there is a purpose to everything.do you seriously think if humans keep reproduction at an exponential rate that this earth is going to survive????? one day, the plants will be gone, the food will be gone, and we'll still be talking about how creationism or intelligent design is better than evolution, all the while our entire people will be starving and crowded to death
we're animals just like anything else, we're organisms just like anything else....just because we're at the peak of the evolutionary chain doesn't mean we're going to be here forever
there have been so many ing millions of species that have gone completely extinct and remain totally unknown to us after mass extinctions...for all we know there could have been an animal millinos of years ago with many of our capacities....but when a meteor struck, when the climate changed, they faced the consequences just like everything else...................and the strongest survived to reproduce into the future
And just like I believe in the Bible, and I've read in it that the earth was created for "humans to live in it", not animals, not plants. Humans. And that God's will never changes, this planet cannot be destroyed. And humans cannot be destroyed. Nothing can wipe anything out without his consent.
Again, my belief.
If animals and plants weren't living on Earth then you can kiss humanity good bye.
Try watching Animal Planet. Other organisms are complex aswell, I mean look at Dolphins, just like Humans they have sex for pleasure and not just reproduction.Which is a large part of the reason why I believe we are definitely superior in all regards to animals. Animals don't love. They don't think enough past filling their stomachs, crapping, and making more of their kind. We are the only beings who know what species we are. We are the only ones who wonder why we are here. The only ones who wonder if there's a God or not. The only ones who know what death is. Or like Octavio Paz said: “Solitude is the profoundest fact of the human condition. Man is the only being who knows he is alone.”
It's hard to explain or ask questions when the other has a different reasoning of things.
Just like my explinations don't suffice him, his don't either for me.
I totally agree.
An ancient greek philospher once asked his student if a horse were capable of worshipping god, would his god resemble a human or a horse?We certainly are the only ones who can worship God. Nothing else leads me to believe God intended for animals to worship him. Why place them in a pedestal if that's not their purpose?
Really? I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Roman Catholic school from grades K-12, and took theology classes each year the whole way.Again, we're coming from different beliefs, and maybe all the things I just said mean nothing to you, because you don't believe in a higher being. An omnipotent one who I know in my heart to believe created us above the animals for a reason.
How were you raised?
You're totally allowed to believe that, i wasn't trying to convince your beliefs, i swear, i was just trying to clear up what an evolutionist would say to your questions...just trying to get you to realize what evolution is all about. thats it.I just believe the answer to be very simple as to how we were made. That's my belief. And the fact that I believe, and animals don't, is a major reason why I argued all I did in regards to their "service" to us.
So do i.I just believe there is a purpose to everything.
on a slightly diff note....what do you say of experiments involving selection?
IE if a man gets a population of Drosophila, and breeds for red eyes, and keeps breeding red eyes with red eyes, and eventually ends up with a population that gives 100% red eyes. Do u think experiments like this are totally falsified?
Do you think if we were allowed to test on humans, and bred humans with red hair, with humans with red hair, and did this over and over again, that we WOULDN'T end up with a population giving 100% red hair?
If you do think this could happen, what do you call this phenomena?
Funny. Watching Animal Planet convinces me more and more that there is a higher being.
Yeah, dolphins like sex. I wouldn't call that being anything near our intelligence.
1 word. Monkeys............
BTW top cherry, i do believe in a Supreme Being, no BS
he makes a good point
if you look at our mitochondrial RNA or rRNA animal family trees
why is it that the 'more advanced' species are capable of being taught and doing more things that a 'less advanced' species
why can't dogs learn to do sign language?
why chimps? is it coincidence that they're closest to us humans?
why would God make that a coincidence?
a religion teacher once told me that all coincidences are really just God in action
and i'm still waiting for our friendly neighborhood pirate (jochehehjaaaam) to post in this thread...he is the one afterall who said evolution was far fetched and full of holes.....where the F are you? searching for the black pearl? ing Keira Knightley? If so, i commend you. She's one fine peice of ass
"What if's" aren't reality. So what do they really matter?
Bible says humans were made to God's image.
Sorry if I don't care "what if" a horse worshiped.
Let's just say I wasn't.Really? I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Roman Catholic school from grades K-12, and took theology classes each year the whole way.
How were you raised?
Sorry if I don't feel like going into religions.
And I really appreciate it. It really is interesting.You're totally allowed to believe that, i wasn't trying to convince your beliefs, i swear, i was just trying to clear up what an evolutionist would say to your questions...just trying to get you to realize what evolution is all about. thats it.
I was just posting on why I believe what I do and also clarify some things.
Not at all. The fact that it can happen, doesn't lead me to believe it is how it happened.what do you say of experiments involving selection?
IE if a man gets a population of Drosophila, and breeds for red eyes, and keeps breeding red eyes with red eyes, and eventually ends up with a population that gives 100% red eyes. Do u think experiments like this are totally falsified?
Do you think if we were allowed to test on humans, and bred humans with red hair, with humans with red hair, and did this over and over again, that we WOULDN'T end up with a population giving 100% red hair?
If you do think this could happen, what do you call this phenomena?
And what would I call it?
Things which can be made possible. Just not a proof as to that happening before we came along.
One word... "Near".
That last part I would maybe agree on.
You just messed me up when you told me you belive in God.
Why can dogs do a lot more things than ants can? Why can birds fly and not tigers? Why can parrots repeat speech and not rabbits?
They're just made differently. With different attributes and things which make us go "Wow!". To me, it's nothing else.
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