How Do You Fix the Niners?

[spurraider21]

I mean, it's the Raiders. They would do that trade in an instant.

times are changing. we actually have a quarterback in place who can be a long term answer

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You think the Vikings, Bears, and Chiefs haven't gotten proper return on their investment? Murray has an inability to stay healthy, but that could've been with any player drafted at any position. Bell is currently a monster, and Shady will probably have 1,500 yards from scrimmage in a year when his line was decimated. He's pretty much a 1,600 scrimmage yards per season back aside from the years when he explodes for over 2,000. As for Lynch, he was a risk prior to draft, and the Bills were unable to contain that risk, unlike the team that traded for him. But he was a 1,300 yards from scrimmage back on a very bad team in Buffalo.

If you're going to judge proper return on investment in Superbowls, that's way too steep, and unrealistic. Only one of those trophies come out per season, and this is the ultimate team game. Which means you'll need more than just a star RB, or star QB to make it happen.

I think Vander's point is that there is an obvious theme of superbowl winners not being teams that have invested high draft picks in the RB position.

IMO it's dumb to consider Demarco Murray or Jamaal Charles a high pick, 3rd round isn't much of a risk. I'd even say picking a RB in the 2nd round can turn out fine, but using a 1st rounder on a running back is absolutely re ed. Even with Adrian Peterson, the only deep playoff run he ever had was on a pass first team with Favre throwing 30+ touchdowns. There are also plenty of the Chris Johnson types who show 1st round talent but then fall off a cliff after 2-3 seasons.

[Clipper Nation]

times are changing. we actually have a quarterback in place who can be a long term answer

He just hasn't been fully Raiderized yet. He'll be the next JaMarcus in no time.

[spurraider21]

I think Vander's point is that there is an obvious theme of superbowl winners not being teams that have invested high draft picks in the RB position.

IMO it's dumb to consider Demarco Murray or Jamaal Charles a high pick, 3rd round isn't much of a risk. I'd even say picking a RB in the 2nd round can turn out fine, but using a 1st rounder on a running back is absolutely re ed. Even with Adrian Peterson, the only deep playoff run he ever had was on a pass first team with Favre throwing 30+ touchdowns. There are also plenty of the Chris Johnson types who show 1st round talent but then fall off a cliff after 2-3 seasons.

the Vikings FO was largely inept, and if Favre never landed in their laps for that one magic season, who would be the best QB they had during the Peterson era? Tarvaris Jackson? Christian Ponder? Matt Cassel? Joe Webb? and its not like there were any QB's worth taking during that draft anyway. It was Russell, Quinn, Kolb, Stanton, Edwards, Beck, Thigpen, and Troy Smith.

I don't think the drafting of Peterson was what held the Vikings back for the past decade

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

the Vikings FO was largely inept, and if Favre never landed in their laps for that one magic season, who would be the best QB they had during the Peterson era? Tarvaris Jackson? Christian Ponder? Matt Cassel? Joe Webb? and its not like there were any QB's worth taking during that draft anyway. It was Russell, Quinn, Kolb, Stanton, Edwards, Beck, Thigpen, and Troy Smith.

I don't think the drafting of Peterson was what held the Vikings back for the past decade

That's a strawman since I never said it was. My overall point was that as great as Peterson has been for Minnesota, it hasn't done a whole lot to cover up how ty of a team they've been over the years.

Peterson is also the exception. Look at other RBs taken in the 1st round in recent years:

Trent Richardson
Doug Martin
David Wilson
Mark Ingram
C.J. Spiller
Javid Best
Ryan Matthews
Knowshon Moreno
Donald Brown
Beanie Wells
Darren McFadden
Jonathan Stewart
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall
Chris Johnson

I don't think there's a single player on that list who ended up being worth the 1st round pick.

[spurraider21]

That's a strawman since I never said it was. My overall point was that as great as Peterson has been for Minnesota, it hasn't done a whole lot to cover up how ty of a team they've been over the years.

Peterson is also the exception. Look at other RBs taken in the 1st round in recent years:

Trent Richardson
Doug Martin
David Wilson
Mark Ingram
C.J. Spiller
Javid Best
Ryan Matthews
Knowshon Moreno
Donald Brown
Beanie Wells
Darren McFadden
Jonathan Stewart
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall
Chris Johnson

I don't think there's a single player on that list who ended up being worth the 1st round pick.

i wasn't trying to suggest that RB's in the first round are a good thing. in fact i've been saying RB production is easily replaceable (which is why seahawks would be wise to let Lynch go)... but the notion that the league's great RB's are available in the late rounds or UDFA is also wrong. most teams with good RB's invested a relatively early pick (rounds 1-3)

and as for the vikings thing i was responding to your "even with peterson they only made one deep run" comment. and of course one draft pick isn't going to coverall for a team with a bunch of ty holes, unless its a transcendent QB like manning, brady, rodgers, luck

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

i wasn't trying to suggest that RB's in the first round are a good thing. in fact i've been saying RB production is easily replaceable (which is why seahawks would be wise to let Lynch go)... but the notion that the league's great RB's are available in the late rounds or UDFA is also wrong. most teams with good RB's invested a relatively early pick (rounds 1-3)

and as for the vikings thing i was responding to your "even with peterson they only made one deep run" comment. and of course one draft pick isn't going to coverall for a team with a bunch of ty holes, unless its a transcendent QB like manning, brady, rodgers, luck

Well I agree with that. Using a 3rd rounder on a RB is actually smart imo since a RB in the 3rd round has a much higher chance at contributing immediately than an OL/DL who's gonna be a 2-3 year project before producing.

The only point I'm making with Peterson is that even when taking a RB in the 1st round does work out, said RB still isn't going to do a whole lot in today's league without a good passing game or an elite defense, i.e., it's a high risk to take a RB in the 1st round, and not a whole lot of reward.

[spurraider21]

Well I agree with that. Using a 3rd rounder on a RB is actually smart imo since a RB in the 3rd round has a much higher chance at contributing immediately than an OL/DL who's gonna be a 2-3 year project before producing.

The only point I'm making with Peterson is that even when taking a RB in the 1st round does work out, said RB still isn't going to do a whole lot in today's league without a good passing game or an elite defense, i.e., it's a high risk to take a RB in the 1st round, and not a whole lot of reward.

peterson singe handedly kept the Vikings relevant every year though. if the FO did a better job of building an offense they would have made several deep runs. of course, he's a rarity, and at his peak is the best RB i've seen, or at least right there with Faulk and Tomlinson.

this year's draft supposedly has 10+ RB's that are supposed to go in the first 3 rounds, it will be interesting to see who bites first

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

peterson singe handedly kept the Vikings relevant every year though. if the FO did a better job of building an offense they would have made several deep runs. of course, he's a rarity, and at his peak is the best RB i've seen, or at least right there with Faulk and Tomlinson.

this year's draft supposedly has 10+ RB's that are supposed to go in the first 3 rounds, it will be interesting to see who bites first

I fully expect someone to take Gurley in the 1st round and to regret it later on. Way too much mileage at Georgia warrant a high pick.

If I were Gurley I'd already be planning my lawsuit against UGA & the NCAA after I have to retire from the NFL at age 25

[spurraider21]

I fully expect someone to take Gurley in the 1st round and to regret it later on. Way too much mileage at Georgia warrant a high pick.

If I were Gurley I'd already be planning my lawsuit against UGA & the NCAA after I have to retire from the NFL at age 25

Gurley tore his ACL so I doubt he'd go in the first.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Gurley tore his ACL so I doubt he'd go in the first.

Currently #22 on McShay's Big Board

[spurraider21]

Currently #22 on McShay's Big Board

[Spur-Addict]

I think Vander's point is that there is an obvious theme of superbowl winners not being teams that have invested high draft picks in the RB position.

IMO it's dumb to consider Demarco Murray or Jamaal Charles a high pick, 3rd round isn't much of a risk. I'd even say picking a RB in the 2nd round can turn out fine, but using a 1st rounder on a running back is absolutely re ed. Even with Adrian Peterson, the only deep playoff run he ever had was on a pass first team with Favre throwing 30+ touchdowns. There are also plenty of the Chris Johnson types who show 1st round talent but then fall off a cliff after 2-3 seasons.

Well, if we're going to change what's high in terms of the draft from 1-3, to 1 for a RB then of course the discussion changes. But I'd question this in regards to skill positions in general for players selected in the first round (QB, RB, WR, TE obviously). Routinely there are busts in all skill positions in this round. I think it's unfair to solely isolate the RB position in terms of franchise success with early 1st round selections. 2013 for instance had Tavon Austin and Cordarrelle Patterson go in the first round, neither of which have done in two years. RG3 for instance, E.J Manuel, Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick etc.

Obviously having the foundation players in tact are far more important, as a team like STL in the hardest conference in football has six wins without exceptional skill position players. But based on what he (Vander) presented, I think there was a lot of value gained from RBs drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, and happens thereafter with the rest of the team is highly based on the organizations front office ability to have proper synergy with the coaches scheme.

[Chinook]

Still think Jim is the problem. Also, I'm not sure the current FO is really good a building a team. They still seem dependent on the previous regime's players.

I don't think there's a huge point in investing in running backs outside of the late rounds. Sure, the best ones may be high picks, but you can find 1,000-yard rushers off the scrap heap. I don't see much added value in using a pick on an RB that could go to a lineman.

[Infinite_limit]

Lowell Cohn:


"Anyway, Harbaugh isn’t the only 49er Jed should fire. Jed should go on a firing spree.

He should fire quarterback Colin Kaepernick for never living up to his overhyped potential, for starting Sunday’s game with a pick, for ruining the Niners in the fourth quarter with another pick. Who was he throwing that second pass to? No 49er was in the area code.

Jed should fire Kaepernick for his 54.4 passer rating — the pits. Carr’s rating was 140.2. Carr has more poise than Kaepernick, has more of a quarterback’s bearing than Kaepernick, and Carr is a mere rookie.

But the Niners can’t fire Kaepernick because they have no one else. They are stuck with this mope of a sourpuss.

After the game, the sourpuss came to the interview room. He hates the media so much he seemed to grind his teeth. No one in that media room picked off his bad passes.

Asked what went wrong, he said “We haven’t played well.”


This just in. Please stop the presses. Colin Kaepernick says the 49ers haven’t played well.

Asked why he’s not playing at a high level, he explained. “I have to play better.”

Why isn’t he playing better?

“I haven’t been playing well.”

His news conferences are torture. He acts like a suspect at the police station. His play also is suspect, when you come down to it. And he was Harbaugh’s big mistake. Another reason Jed should ditch Harbaugh."


http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/...close-the-book

[spurraider21]

Still think Jim is the problem. Also, I'm not sure the current FO is really good a building a team. They still seem dependent on the previous regime's players.

I don't think there's a huge point in investing in running backs outside of the late rounds. Sure, the best ones may be high picks, but you can find 1,000-yard rushers off the scrap heap. I don't see much added value in using a pick on an RB that could go to a lineman.

yep. the guy calling the shots was Scott McLoughan, who was with the 49ers from 05 to 09 during their rebuild... and then we went to Seattle and was there from '10 to '14.

[Infinite_limit]

Kaep being a team leader

[spurraider21]

Kaep being a team leader

http://instagram.com/p/wVE1rRL5_b/?u...campaign=photo

[Spur-Addict]

Bowman activated

[Robz4000]

Team leader Bowman coming back to lead his team. League better be on notice, Niners coming for dat ass.

[The Gemini Method]

Team leader Bowman coming back to lead his team. League better be on notice, Niners coming for dat ass.

Is he playing WR or TE?

[Robz4000]

Is he playing WR or TE?

Everything, but most importantly QB and HC. Clench your teeth Seattle fan, y'all are first...

[The Gemini Method]

Everything, but most importantly QB and HC. Clench your teeth Seattle fan, y'all are first...

I sure hope so. The product you put up against us got beat the up by us and the Raiders. Let's hope its a good game and we don't stomp y'all out once again.

[Robz4000]

I sure hope so. The product you put up against us got beat the up by us and the Raiders. Let's hope its a good game and we don't stomp y'all out once again.

Damn son, you sound upset at the prospect of what the Niners are about to do to your beloved hawks. Wanna talk about it?

[The Gemini Method]

Damn son, you sound upset at the prospect of what the Niners are about to do to your beloved hawks. Wanna talk about it?

Naw. Upset? That team?