Belinelli: Why?

[BillMc]

Bonner, Belinelli...they are regular season minutes eaters and three point specialist with league reputations for the latter. Both are getting more time with all the injuries. Belinelli seems to be suffering from Championship Hangover more than any other Spur. I'm not too worried about either of them. They will be racking up "DNP CD" or spot minutes come playoff time. To have guys like that at the middle/end of your bench is a good thing. Offensively, if they are in the game, the opposing team has to account for them.

Agree with this, though Boris is in the running with Marco for "Biggest Championship Hangover" . Boris is not play nearly as well as last year, which is disturbing because he's a lot more important than Marco.

[Yuixafun]

When the machine is running properly, Marco will spread the floor and he can run the break. He came in and fit in rather well right away, despite his obvious defensive shortcomings. Matt Bonner is not going to be around, and getting the paint open is going to be hard. Tony is our weapon in the paint, but we have to get guys out of there to open it up. Marco and Danny can do that, but we have to have all our guys to make it work. Spurs don't do anything with half a squad, maybe just put up a decent effort. The Finals last year should have shown everyone how valuable the team is as a team, not as a big 3 or anything of the sort. Danny Green was big, Patty was big, Manu was big (in some games), and there were guys who contributed that most teams wouldn't even have in the rotation during that time of the season.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - Aristotle

Completely agree man, these guys enhance the strengths of each other and cover weaknesses, each person is important for a role in the grand design

[EVAY]

When the machine is running properly, Marco will spread the floor and he can run the break. He came in and fit in rather well right away, despite his obvious defensive shortcomings. Matt Bonner is not going to be around, and getting the paint open is going to be hard. Tony is our weapon in the paint, but we have to get guys out of there to open it up. Marco and Danny can do that, but we have to have all our guys to make it work. Spurs don't do anything with half a squad, maybe just put up a decent effort. The Finals last year should have shown everyone how valuable the team is as a team, not as a big 3 or anything of the sort. Danny Green was big, Patty was big, Manu was big (in some games), and there were guys who contributed that most teams wouldn't even have in the rotation during that time of the season.

Well said, and as someone else pointed out, he is being asked to do more than he is capable of producing while Kawhi and Tony are out. It makes him look pretty bad. He can and will contribute again, I hope.

[Cry Havoc]

when Marco came in the game, Miami went on a 8-0 run, then he hit his "heroic" 3

That's cool. So you're blaming Marco exclusively for the evaporation of a 25 point lead to 7 even though you admit the total difference of his play was -5. I guess those other 13 points just fell out of the sky.

[Harry Callahan]

As far as I recall, the last big name free agent in SA was Terry mings and he wasn't that big.

Terry mings was acquired by trade, for an all star caliber player (Alvin Robertson and other pieces). That was a very big deal at the time. The Spurs put Terry mings in with DRob, Sean E, Willie Anderson, etc. A very salty Spurs squad in 1989. Terry mings was a big time player for SA prior to his major knee injury.

[Old School 44]

Agree with this, though Boris is in the running with Marco for "Biggest Championship Hangover" . Boris is not play nearly as well as last year, which is disturbing because he's a lot more important than Marco.

Yes...agree about Boris, but he has had flashes. His recent game against the Clips was pretty impressive. He was super agressive. I'm confident that Boris will be here come playoff time.

[vander]

That's cool. So you're blaming Marco exclusively for the evaporation of a 25 point lead to 7 even though you admit the total difference of his play was -5. I guess those other 13 points just fell out of the sky.

yes I was blaming him EXCLUSIVELY for the ENTIRE Miami comeback.

obviously when the lead reached its highest point, Pop said that he would probably be able to play Beli in the 3rd quarter. this caused the Spurs to get depressed and play with less energy, and when Miami somehow heard about it they were encouraged and played with new hope and purpose...

primary = exclusive?
"drop to 8" = 18 point drop?

[EVAY]

I don't have a reaction to Bellinelli much one way or another. Don't want to defend him or attack him. I'm glad when he does well and wish he had done better when he doesn't.

What I noticed in looking at the stats, though, over at Ptr, was that the defensive rating numbers for Bellinelli last night were actually better than the defensive rating for Baynes, Diaw, Ginobili, or Cory Joseph.

Believe me I am not trying to argue that Belli is great or even good.

I'm kind of more interested in the stats. Lots of times folks focus on one or another stat as proving something that we all know is not a reflection of reality ( see Bonner, Matt and +/- stats). Thing is, we all know the stat is an inaccurate indicator regarding Bonner, but it is used for other people as though it was a gospel reading. Same thing, I wonder, with most of the stats. Let's look at Mills' impact last night. His shooting was less than stellar, (I don't remember what any of his stats were) but we all know that his impact on the game was absolutely spectacular.

I guess my only point here is the arguments using these stats as definitive proof of much of anything are less than compelling.

It is not that I distrust stats. I used to teach parametric and non-parametric statistics at the college level.

It is just that they are limited themselves.

[DMC]

Terry mings was acquired by trade, for an all star caliber player (Alvin Robertson and other pieces). That was a very big deal at the time. The Spurs put Terry mings in with DRob, Sean E, Willie Anderson, etc. A very salty Spurs squad in 1989. Terry mings was a big time player for SA prior to his major knee injury.

See how bad my memory is? I met TC in a mall in SA. He was ok, had a posse that followed him everywhere, like Tony does. Minus him (and now not even that), there's never been a "big" free agent signing in SA since I can recall, I don't go back to the ABA days.

[Cry Havoc]

yes I was blaming him EXCLUSIVELY for the ENTIRE Miami comeback.

obviously when the lead reached its highest point, Pop said that he would probably be able to play Beli in the 3rd quarter. this caused the Spurs to get depressed and play with less energy, and when Miami somehow heard about it they were encouraged and played with new hope and purpose...

primary = exclusive?
"drop to 8" = 18 point drop?

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

[DMC]

I don't have a reaction to Bellinelli much one way or another. Don't want to defend him or attack him. I'm glad when he does well and wish he had done better when he doesn't.

What I noticed in looking at the stats, though, over at Ptr, was that the defensive rating numbers for Bellinelli last night were actually better than the defensive rating for Baynes, Diaw, Ginobili, or Cory Joseph.

Believe me I am not trying to argue that Belli is great or even good.

I'm kind of more interested in the stats. Lots of times folks focus on one or another stat as proving something that we all know is not a reflection of reality ( see Bonner, Matt and +/- stats). Thing is, we all know the stat is an inaccurate indicator regarding Bonner, but it is used for other people as though it was a gospel reading. Same thing, I wonder, with most of the stats. Let's look at Mills' impact last night. His shooting was less than stellar, (I don't remember what any of his stats were) but we all know that his impact on the game was absolutely spectacular.

I guess my only point here is the arguments using these stats as definitive proof of much of anything are less than compelling.

It is not that I distrust stats. I used to teach parametric and non-parametric statistics at the college level.

It is just that they are limited themselves.

I feel the same, except I also allow that maybe the eyeball test is more misleading than the stats. You'd think that a guy who plays ty defense will be exposed in advanced metrics, but maybe not if the coach hides him.

[hater]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

[DMC]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

[EVAY]

I feel the same, except I also allow that maybe the eyeball test is more misleading than the stats. You'd think that a guy who plays ty defense will be exposed in advanced metrics, but maybe not if the coach hides him.

Couldn't agree more. I think that is why the stats are used so frequently. We all want to believe that 'objective numbers' are far more accurate than subjective eye witness testimony. I know I want to believe that. It is just interesting to me.

Maybe you are right about the coach's influence. SOMETHING has to explain it.

(This is about the time my son would be telling me just how big a nerd I really am. LOL)

[EVAY]

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

absolutely true. One of the things that used to make me nuts with Pop was when he would wait sooooo long before he would change out a line-up even when it wasn't working, or would wait too long to re-instate the starters when the other team was making a run (remember those days when we used to have the luxury of a healthy team with multiple subs ution options? HAH)...and it would take at least 4 or 5 minutes for the first team to be able to stop the run. Sometimes we didn't have that long to wait.

[vander]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

oh come off it already, your crusade against player criticism is as stale and boring as apasiloc's love for Kawhi. you're not an idiot, you know my point was simply that Beli was no hero for that 3, and I hope you can quickly figure out how "dropping to 8" does not mean "dropping to 8 from 25" or 30, or whatever the lead was...

[Cry Havoc]

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

I agree to a point, but I'm not sure that championship squads have an excuse. You're on the court and if the other team is confident, it's your job to get in their face and ruin that confidence. You think Duncan or Bowen ever worried about what their guy was doing before they checked into the game?

This isn't to remove responsibility from Beli, but I think it's clear he'll never be anything resembling a good defender and he's asked to play a lot of minutes right now. He makes an effort and that's what I like to see from our players.

[Raven]

I agree to a point, but I'm not sure that championship squads have an excuse. You're on the court and if the other team is confident, it's your job to get in their face and ruin that confidence. You think Duncan or Bowen ever worried about what their guy was doing before they checked into the game?

This isn't to remove responsibility from Beli, but I think it's clear he'll never be anything resembling a good defender and he's asked to play a lot of minutes right now. He makes an effort and that's what I like to see from our players.

exactly what makes you say he makes an effort? can you give an example or something, because when i see him defend, effort and energy are the last words i would say.

[Cry Havoc]

oh come off it already, your crusade against player criticism is as stale and boring as apasiloc's love for Kawhi.

As opposed to the "I hate our own players" rants, which are so new and edgy. You're just so edgy, bro. I can't even keep up with you.

you're not an idiot, you know my point was simply that Beli was no hero for that 3, and I hope you can quickly figure out how "dropping to 8" does not mean "dropping to 8 from 25" or 30, or whatever the lead was...

You went from saying he's primarily responsible for a 25 point lead evaporating to this.

And I never said he was a hero for that 3, but it was a big shot and took some of the wind out of Miami's sails.

[Cry Havoc]

exactly what makes you say he makes an effort? can you give an example or something, because when i see him defend, effort and energy are the last words i would say.

He hustles, tries to stay in front of his man, and doesn't take plays off.

I'm sure you know better than Pop though, right?

[Raven]

He hustles, tries to stay in front of his man, and doesn't take plays off.

I'm sure you know better than Pop though, right?

see that's just it, i've never seen him actually hustle.. sure he like to pretend, flop and make easy things look complicated, but have you ever seen him having actual contact with the floor or with someone's elbows? Clearly he doesn't even try to stay in fron of his man, that's just ridicolous to say. Taking plays off is pretty much all he alway does, you can actually see him only when he does something dumb or shoots.

[ohmwrecker]

Beli sucks.

[hater]

Benchinelli hustles, but he is italian after all. gotta look good first and foremost. He is just having a ROUGH year

[Arcadian]

So, what exactly was the question? If you're asking why Marco is playing more minutes now, it's probably because Green had to slide over to SF in Leonard's absence, and Manu remained on the bench for strategic reasons, leaving Marco as the starting SG.

If you really believe Pop loves Marco, remember that he was basically removed from the rotation in the Finals. He must not love him that much.

[DMC]

Marco climbing out of the swamp, putting up numbers, bringing home the bacon.. waived? I don't think so... momma, there goes that wop.