Dear "The Artest Factor",
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Bowen is a bad player??
Lets ask Melo, Ray Allen, Marion, Rip, and Billups hopw bad he is. Last time I checked he pretty much contained all those guys in the playoffs and was a big reason SA won their third le in 7 years! How many les have Indy won?????
Oh, the irony. He picks almost every matchup in favor of the Pacers, but then dings Pop because he's Duncan's towelboy. Hey numbnuts, If the Pacers are so much more talented, what does that make Carlisyle? An incompetent towelboy...
I stopped reading at this point. You're a complete imbecile.
You gave yourself away right there..........Even Spurs homers and NBA fans who only listen to Bill Walton and Tom Tolbert
Rick Carlisle, by far the NBA's most decorated coach since his arrival in the league 4 years ago.
Not only is this guy a complete homer, he thinks Garnett is better than Duncan, too. It seems that whole championship thing doesn't count for anything. These guys play just for the stats, I guess.
, the only ring your team has is on Stephen Jackson's finger, and it's got a Spurs logo on it.
Unbiased, my ass.
Artest Factor, your village just called, they want their idiot back.
P.S. Put the crackpipe down.
Pass around that doobie over here!!
i still smell a rat...this has mouse written all over it
I am as big a Pacer fan as they come... and I disagree with some of what he said. Here is the rundown I posted on my Pacers board.
I thouht the Spurs are the one team that could take us out... before they signed Van Exel and Finley. All I can say is... I am reconsidering how much to bet on us (but I will still bet on us to win it all) That is a scary second unit pick-up considering they have already played with each other before in Dallas. I think this was his most deadly destination possibility. He would have just blended into the background more in Miami. Nick and Michael will give San Antonio a swift scoring punch off the bench. We will need our second unit to step up more for them than anyone.
starters
Parker Vs. Tinsley - Parker, but Tinsley has a lot of game too... if he stays un-injured he can post big stats (15.4 ppg, 2.03 spg, 6.4 apg)
Ginobili Vs. Jackson - Ginobili, he is one of the top 5 sg's in the league... but again Stephen is capable of 30 point nights in any given game)
Bowen Vs. Artest - Artest, he is a better defender than Bowen and he is better at scoring too.
Duncan Vs. O'Neal - Duncan, but JO is not far behind... Jermaine is very capable of outplaying Duncan in a game
Mohammad Vs. Foster - Foster, Mohammad and Foster both excelled last year... but I think Foster is slightly ahead of him. He is a poor man's Ben Wallace
bench
Van Exel Vs. Sarunas - Sarunas, I believe Sarunas will be well adjusted come playoff time
Barry Vs. Freddy - Barry, but Freddy has his good days
Finley Vs. Granger - ?, depends on if Granger pans out and/or if Finley stays healthy
Horry Vs. Bender - ?, I'ld give it to Bender IF he stays healthy, but he is not reliable there. They would match up well against each other.
Nesterovic Vs. Harrison - Harrison, he can't rebound and last year he fouled a lot... but he shoots a very high FG%, is an excellent shot blocker, and is as close as they come to Shaq when considering quickness and size (I am not at all implying he is even close to Shaq in terms of skill)
Udrih Vs. Johnson - ?, maybe a slight edge to Johnson - Udrih's a good three point shooter though
Oberto Vs. Pollard - ?, haven't seen Oberto play... although it is not uncommon for an NBA center to be better than Pollard
coach
Carlisle Vs. Pop - Definately Pop, I love Carlisle... but he comes in third to Popp and Larry Brown. But you have to respect what Carlisle did with the squad he had available next year... most people wouldn't have guessed we would make the playoffs... much less take the Pistons to six games.
I really think many of you are underestimating the Pacers ALOT! We were fourth or fifth best team in the playoffs last year - and that was with two injured and one suspended starters. We lost Reggie Miller, but he couldn't do it every night anyway... I fealt he kind of hurt us when we needed him most against DET. And in his place we have gained the next Ginobili (in Sarunas), we had a top 5 draft pick fall into our laps at #17 (in Danny Granger), oh... and we get Ron Artest back... one of the top 5 SF's in the league. I know your coaches and players don't disrespect Indiana's potential... so why do you all?
P.S. - It will be a fun Finals - IND Vs. SAS... who wins? God, only knows!
Finley Vs. Granger - ?, depends on if Granger pans out and/or if Finley stays healthy
Horry Vs. Bender - ?, I'ld give it to Bender IF he stays healthy, but he is not reliable there. They would match up well against each other.
Uh ... I don't even know what to say
How about trying to explain why it is so funny. I wasn't joking.
Uh ... I don't even know what to say
In a playoff series, you're honestly believing that Jonathan Bender could even compete with Robert Horry? That's what's funny.
I almost feel sorry for you. Were you dropped on your head?
What you never heard about Big Shot John?
Wait a minute....this was an on the court comparrison? I thought this was a comparrison of team's abilities to run into the stands and kick the crap out of the other teams fans. In that case, the Spurs are the better team at actually playing basketball.
The NBA is about matchups.
Tinsley does not matchup well with Parker, he's too fast for anyone. Tinsley can't just overpower Parker, our help defense is too good.
Manu vs. Jackson: Manu shoots better, passes better, and can penetrate better. I'd rather have him on defense also. No contest.
Artest vs. Bowen: Have to go with Artest due to better offensive skills. Bowen is becoming a legendary on the ball defender though.
Duncan vs. JO: Duncan is just too big and bad for little JO to handle. I have not even seen a Pacer fan try argue the point, we all know Duncan > JO.
Center: Let's call it a wash and leave it at that. It's a real waste of time trying to pump up the players at this position, although most are serviceable.
Bench: India has no answer for Horry-NVE-Finley. Get real! Also underrating Barry big time, who played great in the finals. I've never heard of any of India's bench players, that should tell you something!
Coach: You can't argue with 3 rings, even one tiny bit. Pop's players would walk through a wall for him and they check their egos at the door. Xs and Os nobody has anything on him.
If Artest stays stable then IN can give DET and MIA a run in the East. If they somehow make the finals, I'd say Spurs in five, with all due respect.
I was just thinking this morning that what I really needed was an unbiased Spurs/Pacers comparison written by a Pacers fan.
I've been getting really nervous about the Pacers since I learned that they acquired, well, er...nobody of significance in the offseason to date.
Maybe he was talking about the reg. season?
Why are all of you arguing about matchups. Matchups mean to me. At the end of the day, the game is all about the TEAM! our team beats the Pacers hands down. You wanna know why?
Cause our players are disciplined.
Cause our players are first class players and wont punch fans.
Cause our players listen to Duncan our leader on the court. Whos the Pacers leader? JO Neal or the rapper Artest?
Cause our team is just the better TEAM!
Screw the pacers. they may have talented player but if not for Carlisle, they would stink.
Don't we all know Tinsley > Parker?
Classic!
The Pacers did sign Jasikevicius, and I like that guy. But did they really need a fifth point guard? Aside from Tinsley there three guys, Jones-Johnson-Gill, that I have never heard of. And not one of them stands more than 6-3.
Let have a little more fun:
Bender: 7-0, career 5.6 PPG, 2.2 RPG, and 42% shooter. An absolute bust as already said.
Croshere: 38% FG and 26% 3FG last year. Career 41% FG.
Foster: 6-11, 7 PPG and 9 RPG in 26 MPG last year is respectable.
David Harrison: Who?
Granger: A rookie "steal" 17th pick. We'll see.
Wacko Jacko: An decent player when he's not running into the stands throwing haymakers. 40% FG, only saving grace is 36% 3FG if you let him fire away. We cut this dude due to his at ude, plus he wouldn't sign the prenup.
Pollard: Nice matchup with Rasho. Woohoo.
Artest: I'll keep it strictly basketball, although this guy is the next Rodman. And I dont mean that in a good way. 42% FGs, 31% 3 FGs in 2003-4, last full season. So really he's not a great scorer at 18 PPG, he's just jacking a lot of shots up. Once he shuts down someone on the Spurs, I'll believe he's a great defender. Those shooting percentages are right in line with his career averages also.
Tinsley: Career 40% FGs (actually .399, thank god for rounding), 32% 3 FG. Pretty good player but 9 out of 10 GMs prefer Parker, I would guess. His 15 PPG is largely a function of Artest and Jackson's suspensions, considering its about 6 points higher than the previous 3 years.
JO: Numbers look great. Honestly I have not seen him play much. What little I have seen he strikes me as a little soft for his size. A 6-11 jump shooter, which can be very effective. No 3 point range though. Pretty good shot blocker, but certainly not dominant in the paint. Best rebounding year was 10.5 and only 8.8 last year. Clearly not near the post presence as TD. Have to love how he blossomed after leaving the morons in Portland.
So what do we have? Well for starters this is a poor shooting Pacers team. None of the starters from the 1-3 position shoots more than 42%. This team shot 39.5% last year and 32% from threes. The Spurs were 45% and 36%. And we just added Finley (40% 3FG) and Van Exel (39% 3 FG). Not to mention Horry 45% 3FG and Barry 42% 3FG in the playoffs. Ok I mentioned it.
The Pacers got outrebounded by 2 per game last year. Exact opposite for the Spurs which is a 4 RPG swing. Spurs also block more shots than the Pacers, whose opponents blocked more than they did. Big men = O'Neal, Foster, Pollard, Bender vs. Duncan, Mohammed, Oberto, Nesterovic, Horry. We have much more depth, Bender and Pollard would not even make our roster.
Our team is just way more talented and versatile than the Pacers. If Oberto turns out to be the skilled post player advertised, the Bulls record is in jeopardy. If not, we are still stacked and can burn you from the outside with Bowen-Barry-Ginobli-Finley-Horry-Van Exel-Udrih, that's no less than 7 guys that will kill you from the 3 point line. That creates space for our superior inside game, led by Duncan.
To win at Basketball you have to score. No way the Pacers score more than us with 39% shooting, Artest and Wacko jacking up wild shots. JO's midrange game will not get the Pacers out of the East. I will pull for Jasikevicius, just because he won me over in the Olympics.
Indiana is a solid contender for 3rd place in the East, I will grant you that.
The Pacers have a legitimate chance of winning the East, but only becuase the East is a real mess. (By this, I mean more of a mess than usual.)
I have been a Pacers fan my entire life. As a realist, this means that I have seen THE dominant ABA team get its clock cleaned by an ABA rival, the Spurs. (The Spurs have been my "other Conference" favorite for many years.)
To a certain extent, I believe in history and experience. When the Spurs and Pacers entered the NBA, the Pacers were obviously in a better position to win the first "NBA le by former ABA Champion." Thirty years later, the Spurs have three les, and the Pacers have none.
My point, and I do have one, is this: a successful franchise requires more than players. Even assuming the original post was correct (and it wasn't), the Spurs have won two of the last three NBA les with more or less the same core team. In that same period, more or less the same core Indiana team has two major accomplishments: 1) led the league in regular season wins for one season 2) set every suspension record known to man.
'nuff said.
I was re-reading this thread more closely, and I stumbled onto a fun one. The original poster made the comment that Bruce Bowen was a dirty player.
Obviously, this man is not a real Pacers fan. Bruce learned all of his routines from Reggie...
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