In your opinion, what is wrong with this team?

[tholdren]

Hum, did you watch last year playoffs run?

Great point if we were talking about last year. There's time to turn it around but right now he sucks. He isn't a 1 or 2 guy he's a third option. He isn't a superstar. he's not even a carmelo anthony

[hater]

missing their real coach, coach Bud. Have a circus for a supporting coaching staff.

[UZER]

Parker never developed a dead eye midrange jumper. Its pretty much hit and miss game to game.

He's had years to develop one but spent too much time playing international ball. Now that he can't out-quick guys, his game has really suffered.

[EVAY]

Here's a response.

Starters:

We have NO go-to shooter. There is not one single player on the team who we know can get and make his shot when we really need one. Not Tim, not Tony, not Manu, not Kawhi, not Patty, not Marco, not Danny.

Tim is the most dominant player on our team, even at his advanced age. Having said that though, he can no longer dominate the opposing big men like he once did. They are younger, more athletic, and they are skilled. At this point he is the best role player on a team of role players.

Baynes/Splitter bring different things to the court; neither of them brings a complete game. Tiago shows limited mobility, idiotic shot selection and an unwillingness to fight for the ball. Baynes has good mobility, sets good screens, apparently has the basketball I.Q. of a gnat, but can actually make some shots occasionally, best away from the rim. Each of them is no better than a role player.

Danny Green has an up and down game that has always been streaky offensively, which is exacerbated this season by Pop's irregular rotation patterns and quick hook when Danny messes up defensively. He has improved defensively this year, but he is not a go-to guy. He is a role player.

Kawhi has not shown himself able to "take over games" in the regular season on a regular basis. He has moments of brilliant play, interspersed with stretches of offensive passivity and/ or inability to score. He is improving, I think, but at this point, he too remains a role player.

Tony's problems this season are well and truly beaten to death in this forum. He is also no more than a role player any more (it is not necessary to re-litigate whether he was or wan't at any time in the past - this is right here and now). His speed has diminished, his shots are not falling, and he has shown no more interest in excelling than a third stringer on most teams.

Manu (Included here because he is more than just a sixth man) has completely fallen off the cliff regarding three point shots and free throws. He USED to be the guy that the team could count on for free throws, regardless of what else was going on. His decision making remains baffling at times (as when he took a pull-up three with about 20 seconds left in the shot clock last night after not being able to make any at all and when there was no one under the basket wearing our uniform). He is always thinking, always trying to figure out how to help, but he can't play more than 15-20 minutes total at all anymore, and many of those minutes are filled with poor shooting and turnovers. A very serviceable role player, but now way a g0-to guy.

Backups:

Marco and Patty and exist to shoot threes and neither of them can get it done with any consistency this year.

Cory Joseph can look terrific for periods of time when he is a back up but gets passive and indecisive on offense. Best defender of any of our guards right now and may be the best pg on the team. That is a terrible statement because he is not starting material for a playoff contending team.

CONCLUSION: We are a team of role players with no star to guide or deliver us, and none of our role players has stepped up in the way the did last year.

Plus, our offense from last year has been scouted beyond belief and the other teams know how to defend what they didn't know how to defend last year.

We have no three point shooting to count on, and that is what we counted on last year.

COACHES: They are a mess this year. I wish we had never gotten Messina, and Pop seems not to care too much himself. If he doesn't, why should anyone else?

[hater]

Here's a response.

Starters:

We have NO go-to shooter. There is not one single player on the team who we know can get and make his shot when we really need one. Not Tim, not Tony, not Manu, not Kawhi, not Patty, not Marco, not Danny.

Tim is the most dominant player on our team, even at his advanced age. Having said that though, he can no longer dominate the opposing big men like he once did. They are younger, more athletic, and they are skilled. At this point he is the best role player on a team of role players.

Baynes/Splitter bring different things to the court; neither of them brings a complete game. Tiago shows limited mobility, idiotic shot selection and an unwillingness to fight for the ball. Baynes has good mobility, sets good screens, apparently has the basketball I.Q. of a gnat, but can actually make some shots occasionally, best away from the rim. Each of them is no better than a role player.

Danny Green has an up and down game that has always been streaky offensively, which is exacerbated this season by Pop's irregular rotation patterns and quick hook when Danny messes up defensively. He has improved defensively this year, but he is not a go-to guy. He is a role player.

Kawhi has not shown himself able to "take over games" in the regular season on a regular basis. He has moments of brilliant play, interspersed with stretches of offensive passivity and/ or inability to score. He is improving, I think, but at this point, he too remains a role player.

Tony's problems this season are well and truly beaten to death in this forum. He is also no more than a role player any more (it is not necessary to re-litigate whether he was or wan't at any time in the past - this is right here and now). His speed has diminished, his shots are not falling, and he has shown no more interest in excelling than a third stringer on most teams.

Manu (Included here because he is more than just a sixth man) has completely fallen off the cliff regarding three point shots and free throws. He USED to be the guy that the team could count on for free throws, regardless of what else was going on. His decision making remains baffling at times (as when he took a pull-up three with about 20 seconds left in the shot clock last night after not being able to make any at all and when there was no one under the basket wearing our uniform). He is always thinking, always trying to figure out how to help, but he can't play more than 15-20 minutes total at all anymore, and many of those minutes are filled with poor shooting and turnovers. A very serviceable role player, but now way a g0-to guy.

Backups:

Marco and Patty and exist to shoot threes and neither of them can get it done with any consistency this year.

Cory Joseph can look terrific for periods of time when he is a back up but gets passive and indecisive on offense. Best defender of any of our guards right now and may be the best pg on the team. That is a terrible statement because he is not starting material for a playoff contending team.

CONCLUSION: We are a team of role players with no star to guide or deliver us, and none of our role players has stepped up in the way the did last year.

Plus, our offense from last year has been scouted beyond belief and the other teams know how to defend what they didn't know how to defend last year.

We have no three point shooting to count on, and that is what we counted on last year.

COACHES: They are a mess this year. I wish we had never gotten Messina, and Pop seems not to care too much himself. If he doesn't, why should anyone else?

great post. Agree with many things here. I think you must make the distinction of "go-to shooter" and "player that creates his own shot". we still have go-to shooters: Ferrari Belinelli, Green (I still trust their shot)

the problem is we have no "player that creates" either for himself or others. In the past we had Parker. This season Parker is missing. that is why I always clamor "this team goes as far as MVParker takes em"


Also great point about the coaches. You constantly see Messina or Udoka talking to Pop during the game. seems like Pop doesn't give a anymore. You rarely saw Marks, Bud or Brown talking that much to Pop.

[Malik Hairston]

Last year's regular season:



Last year's playoffs:

[Malik Hairston]

^^Spurs have literally been worse with Babar on the floor for over a year now..

2014 regular season, 2014 playoffs and now the 2015 regular season..

[RD2191]

^^Spurs have literally been worse with Babar on the floor for over a year now..

2014 regular season, 2014 playoffs and now the 2015 regular season..

Some people are still in denial. No idea what else you can show them.

[GrandeDavid]

Lack of passion, poor point guard play on both sides of the ball and indifferent coaching.

[Chinook]

Spurs needed to add some talent, and for the second year in a row, the neglected to do so. They haven't had the depth and upside that they have had in past. They're essentially wasting the bottom third of their roster on guys like Baynes, Ayres, Bonner, Daye/Williams and Anderson (who woulnd't be a waste at all if they actually played him). They needed to clean out some of that in order to continue to grow their talent base.

[Plum Island]

Some people are still in denial. No idea what else you can show them.

Besides the posters with an OBVIOUS agenda- who is denying it?
All I see is the very few posters who go all out to defend MVParker (and you know as well as I they're doing it to piss people off), and everyone else knowing what the is going on.

Seriously. Malik's up in every thread with the same post like he's performing a public service announcement.
Everyone knows, face.

[Plum Island]

Besides the posters with an OBVIOUS agenda- who is denying it?
All I see is the very few posters who go all out to defend MVParker (and you know as well as I they're doing it to piss people off), and everyone else knowing what the is going on.

Seriously. Malik's up in every thread with the same post like he's performing a public service announcement.
Everyone knows, face.

Honestly- Anderson's D on PG's probably wouldn't be much worse, if at all than Parker's right now.
I'd throw that old boy into the mix. Put his feet to the fire for a few games. See what happens.

[Johnny RIngo]

Spurs needed to add some talent, and for the second year in a row, the neglected to do so. They haven't had the depth and upside that they have had in past. They're essentially wasting the bottom third of their roster on guys like Baynes, Ayres, Bonner, Daye/Williams and Anderson (who woulnd't be a waste at all if they actually played him). They needed to clean out some of that in order to continue to grow their talent base.

The front office really ed up, didn't they? That horrible $45 mil contract that most of us KNEW Parker wouldn't live up to, the wastefulness when it comes to usage of the MLE. They played it safe and conservative(while overvaluing their own talent like TP) and now they're getting burned for it. Spurs aren't a top heavy team like most champions of the past - we needed a group effort to win the le last year. If even a few of those role players drop off(whether due to injuries or poor play) this team won't be able to endure it. That brutal December stretch was proof enough. We're seeing the same thing now in the road trip. Wasting all those roster spots on D-League talent is insulting to the fans that watch these games.

[MateoNeygro]

Lack of the ability to penetrate to open up the passing game. Opponents are playing the passing lanes because there is really no need to help, we can't break them down man to man. It all starts there. Because we are unable to penetrate we get a lot of contested shots and turnovers, the defense is exposed, and we get behind and force the issue which just gets worse. A team can play through this and win a few games (see Bulls without Rose), but it takes an extraordinary amount of effort on D.

Basketball becomes much simpler for the opponent when your team is no threat to make a layup off of set plays. Pop is really gonna have to work some magic with screens because we can't penetrate, we are working harder on offense than the opponent is on defense. This is where we need to have KL or Green take on a role they cannot yet fill. Parker is not getting it done, for whatever reason, and Manu just in spurts. Patty is a shooting guard and Joseph is way too slow on offense to actually put the team on his dribbling back. Parker looks mud slow and when he does on occasion get by, he has no legs to finish.

Pop has a task ahead.

PERFECT. I feel like it's all on our inability to beat anybody one on one to even open up looks. Defenders stay home and our offense is ed. It's really simple from my view point and I have faith in this team but I honestly don't think it's all that easy to fix. All this about our guys being in shooting slumps is true but that's a product of the offense being stagnant. These guys just aren't getting open shots like they're accustomed to.

[Johnny RIngo]

PERFECT. I feel like it's all on our inability to beat anybody one on one to even open up looks. Defenders stay home and our offense is ed. It's really simple from my view point and I have faith in this team but I honestly don't think it's all that easy to fix. All this about our guys being in shooting slumps is true but that's a product of the offense being stagnant. These guys just aren't getting open shots like they're accustomed to.

And yet we decided to give a $45 mil extension to a point guard that can't penetrate, shoot, or make plays for his teammates. The only thing TP is good at this year is hitting wide open corner threes. He's Bruce Bowen without any of the defensive impact.

[Chinook]

The front office really ed up, didn't they? That horrible $45 mil contract that most of us KNEW Parker wouldn't live up to, the wastefulness when it comes to usage of the MLE. They played it safe and conservative(while overvaluing their own talent like TP) and now they're getting burned for it. Spurs aren't a top heavy team like most champions of the past - we needed a group effort to win the le last year. If even a few of those role players drop off(whether due to injuries or poor play) this team won't be able to endure it. That brutal December stretch was proof enough. We're seeing the same thing now in the road trip. Wasting all those roster spots on D-League talent is insulting to the fans that watch these games.

The only reason why the window reopened was because they got a MAJOR talent infusion gifted to them four years ago. Leonard was planned for, but pretty much the rest of their top eight (not counting the Big Three, of course) fell into their laps. It made no sense to pick Daye ahead of Bertans or even LJC. They needed room to improve as a roster, and because they didn't add anyone new, they really only could decline.

To top it all, Kawhi being a top option is just killing the offense. Even when he scores well, it just disrupts everyone's flow. Instead of him getting better in his role, they've made him into Melo-line, and there's no one to be old-Kawhi anymore.

[Malik Hairston]

The only reason why the window reopened was because they got a MAJOR talent infusion gifted to them four years ago. Leonard was planned for, but pretty much the rest of their top eight (not counting the Big Three, of course) fell into their laps. It made no sense to pick Daye ahead of Bertans or even LJC. They needed room to improve as a roster, and because they didn't add anyone new, they really only could decline.

To top it all, Kawhi being a top option is just killing the offense. Even when he scores well, it just disrupts everyone's flow. Instead of him getting better in his role, they've made him into Melo-line, and there's no one to be old-Kawhi anymore.

Isn't Pop the reason that all Spurs players are decent, though?

I thought his magical system turns any ty player into a winner..

[MateoNeygro]

And yet we decided to give a $45 mil extension to a point guard that can't penetrate, shoot, or make plays for his teammates. The only thing TP is good at this year is hitting wide open corner threes. He's Bruce Bowen without any of the defensive impact.

Can't explain that one. Maybe they believed he would age gracefully like Tim and Manu? The writing was on the wall in last years playoffs so I'm not even sure what they were doing. It's hard to deny(even as a huge Spurs fan) that the situation is dire.

[Raven]

Manu has been perfectly fine, the problem is elsewhere.

[MateoNeygro]

Besides the posters with an OBVIOUS agenda- who is denying it?
All I see is the very few posters who go all out to defend MVParker (and you know as well as I they're doing it to piss people off), and everyone else knowing what the is going on.

Seriously. Malik's up in every thread with the same post like he's performing a public service announcement.
Everyone knows, face.

LOL I don't know why but your use of face made me laugh...I'm 28

[Chinook]

Isn't Pop the reason that all Spurs players are decent, though?

I thought his magical system turns any ty player into a winner..

Dude's declined hard core this year. The players know he has no more idea what it takes to win B2B les than anyone else there.

I've always found it hilarious how Pop constantly downplays his role to the media while also making gobs of money from his contract. I believe he may be the highest paid coach in the league still.

[Johnny RIngo]

Can't explain that one. Maybe they believed he would age gracefully like Tim and Manu? The writing was on the wall in last years playoffs so I'm not even sure what they were doing. It's hard to deny(even as a huge Spurs fan) that the situation is dire.

Which would be naive and stupid on their part. Tony never had anywhere near the talent or bball IQ that those two possessed. They're two of the most impactful players in NBA history. Parker's impact(even going back to his prime years) has always been mediocre in comparison. It only makes sense that he'd suffer the typical decline that happens to most NBA players in their early 30s.

Everybody laughed at the Lakers for that Kobe contract. Spurs deserve the same for giving Tony one of the worst contracts in the league. This is what happens when you ignore analytics - stupid decisions and bad contracts. Sad to see Spurs making the same mistakes as one of the dumbest franchises in the league.

[hater]

Manu has been perfectly fine

Evita is leading the league in Turnovers (players below 26mpg)

he's also shooting career lows in FTs and TS%

he's also 2nd only to to Kobe Bryant in 4th quarter turnovers

perfectly fine

[MateoNeygro]

Which would be naive and stupid on their part. Tony never had anywhere near the talent or bball IQ that those two possessed. They're two of the most impactful players in NBA history. Parker's impact(even going back to his prime years) has always been mediocre in comparison. It only makes sense that he'd suffer the typical decline that happens to most NBA players in their early 30s.

Everybody laughed at the Lakers for that Kobe contract. Spurs deserve the same for giving Tony one of the worst contracts in the league. This is what happens when you ignore analytics - stupid decisions and bad contracts. Sad to see Spurs making the same mistakes as one of the dumbest franchises in the league.

Like I said the writing was on the wall. It's a damn shame. Maybe at the same time they believed and rightly so that no big name would sign here anyway so they kept what they had??? Just being devil's advocate.

[Malik Hairston]

^^it was just a matter of simple loyalty IMO..