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Mid is contradicting himself hard from my thread about "greats in other eras". It's disappointing... And sheep are following it.
So it was "okay" for Duncan to lose at home, in his prime, in a game 7, in overtime, to Dirk Nowitzki?comparing dave cowens to Dirk Nowitzki
Oh you also said Dudley was better than Carmelo.
Paper champ.
Mid is contradicting himself hard from my thread about "greats in other eras". It's disappointing... And sheep are following it.
Im simply pointing out that the Spurs were never that great and simply waited around for the better teams to get worse or retire.Laker fans giving us , I expected this and all in good fun.
I also expected Mavs fan.
But a Suns fan talking about championships
This is WHY they could never repeat. Paper champions dont beat the truly greats.
Beating 3peat champs, defending champs aren't great.
How about getting spanked by the paper champs every time they faced in the playoffs? Was that great?
what are you talking about re ? The Spurs ENDED the 3 peat Lakers, our grinded one of the best defensive teams of all time, and destroyed another three peat from happening in the most dominant finals of all time.
go to bed.
Still salty from all those Mays when the Spurs sent their championship-wishing asses home
Pretty sure age and apathy ended the Lakers' three peat.
Then they retooled and handled the Spurs in six. Duncan was no match for Shaq.
Duncan was the best player on the floor in that game and certainly didn't get outplayed by Dave Cowens.Are you speaking of Duncan in 2006 against the Mavs?
Game. Set. Match.
Then you dont know about hoops ...
Post their head-to-head playoff stats.
Thanks.
Must be hard to be a suns fan. You gotta live vicariously through Lakers' accomplishments and even then, it doesn't make sense nor give you full satisfaction.
Glad I bleed silver and black and not like those gots in orange
Pretty sure it's past your bed time. There was a time when your best player wasn't Bledsoe, just so you know youngin..
I'm sorry I caused you to get so mad that you made this thread mid. Please forgive me son.I know I'm speaking blasphemy here and will likely experience some vicious backlash from Kareem fans like Ambchang, who I'm in agreement with most of the time, but I can no longer, in good conscience, give Kareem GOAT consideration or even place him 2nd All Time. Kareem's legendary status doesn't exempt him from fair and detailed criticism.
So why is it that Kareem is an automatic top 2 player of all-time? Because he won 6 rings and stands atop the all-time scoring list?
Let's unpack his achievements.
The primary bulk of his scoring output was done in the 70's, most of it pre-merger, which was objectively the weakest and worst era in NBA history that led to the NBA nearly folding and the Finals being shown on tape delay. You had players like Elvin Hayes (size of small forward in today's game), pulling down 18 boards a game in some seasons while also averaging 25-28 points per game on poor shooting percentages. And Bob McAdoo was the "Jordan of the Era" consistently averaging over 30 points per game. Stats were ultra-inflated in this era. That's not to say Kareem wasn't a fantastic scorer, but he wouldn't be anywhere near as prolific today.
Kareem's defense. He was certainly an above average defender and made a good deal of All Defensive teams (granted, this was before writers really knew how to evaluate defense), but his (regular season) career and peak DBPM are pretty underwhelming for a big, 2.1 (career) and 4.0 (peak). For reference, Hakeem Olajuwon's numbers are 3.8 (career) and 5.9 (peak). Tim Duncan 4.0 (career) and 5.1 (peak). Kareem's playoff DBPM are identical, while Hakeem's are 4.7 and 9.0and Duncan's are 3.8 and 6.5.
"Who cares about all that, he's got six rings!"
As we know, rings are a team accomplishment, but Kareem could only be considered the "lead dog" on maybe two of his le teams. And during his 6th le run, he was definitively the 4th or 5th best player on the Lakers, and was actually a net negative during the playoffs, sporting a -1.4 BPM. Furthermore, his "raw" numbers were pretty mediocre. He averaged 14 and 5 on .464 shooting. Kareem's lack of impact during these latter years was validated when the Lakers made the Finals in '91 in a much tougher Western Conference. Sure, they didn't win the le, but ran into a young and hungry Bulls team with the greatest player of all-time on the roster. Worthy was also injured in that series.
Now, I'm not one to diminish les, but Kareem's first le came at a low point during the NBA. All of the great 60's players and teams were retired or far past their primes, and the Bucks kind of snuck in there, playing a terrible Bullets team that only won 42 games. It took Kareem 10 seasons to raise the trophy again and it just so happens that the 2nd greatest player of all-time (I'm upgrading Magic to that status) was drafted to the Lakers. And we all know about Magic's historic Finals performance that kind of made Kareem an afterthought. Further damning Kareem here is the fact that the team (which was still built around him), failed to get out of the 1st round the next season. Magic saw the writing on the wall, moved to fire Westhead, and bring in Riley, who'd bring Kentucky/Adolph Rupp style fast break, guard centric offense to the Lakers. The result: A le the very next season and 3 more to follow.
So why is he an automatic GOAT consideration again? I don't see a valid argument. I won't invoke advanced stats here, but Kareem's are not that much better, and in many cases worse, than other all time greats.
Now I know this analysis will dismissed by the usual suspect "old school" basketball fans (who are typically Laker fans), but I'm not reducing Kareem to Kobe Bryant status or anything silly like that. I think, after careful consideration, that 4th All Time is a fair placement for Kareem, with Duncan moving into the 3rd spot.
No. Discussing Kareem in that thread got me thinking about how good he really was. Great player, but 4th all time at best.I'm sorry I caused you to get so mad that you made this thread mid. Please forgive me son.
why are lakerfans so mad? 4th all time is an honor, especially if you didnt win in your peak
Has to do with having no future and Kobe's career ending in the lottery.
This. In fact, that 2006 Mavs series was almost a mirror image of our series this year. Two of the elite teams in the West matching up due to a quirk in the seeding rules, Duncan dominated, Poop coached an atrocious series, and Enrique went full cancer. Lots of close games. The Mavs handing two games away on incredibly unclutch plays (Stackhouse's three point attempt, Dirk getting swatted by Bowen) and still winning the series, just like us. Dirk and Blake having their breakthrough playoff series.
Yet he let his team lose.
At home.
In Game 7.
In Overtime.
You reeeeeeeeaching with this thread mid. I'm embarrassed for you son.
Hey Mid, I got side tracked to go have a steak, but I'm going to take your logic of using how great Magic was to lower Kareem's value... then switch the names to Kobe and Shaq. When I'm done Kobe might just be #1... using your logic.
Stop it. The Spurs are not elite. Elite teams go beyond the 1st round.
Nope. Duncan had 41, 15, 6, and 3 on 601TS%, outscoring Dirk. Dave Cowens outscored Kareem and shot a better percentage.
The Spurs bench had 2 points.
And in any event, Dirk>>>>>>>>>>Dave Cowens.
Elite franchises also don't miss the playoffs in consecutive years. I thought you s didn't rebuild and just reloaded?
And another lottery season is coming up next year for your boys. Enjoy
That got thinks Amar'e > Duncan because Amar'e finally managed to beat one of the tiest Spurs teams ever in 2010
That got thinks Amar'e > Duncan because Amar'e finally managed to beat one of the tiest Spurs teams ever in 2010
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