Do the Spurs need to change the starting back court?

[HarlemHeat37]

Or Pop needs to stagger lineups more and take Parker out sooner and give him more minutes w/ 2nd unit and Patty more minutes w/ 1st unit. Don't necessarily have to start Patty to accommodate OP's notion.. tbh

I pretty much agree with this, regarding not changing the starting lineups, but rather altering the subsequent units..

The worst thing he can do is to stubbornly force a unit to fit together..

[Dex]

The problem with starting Manu instead of Danny will be the 2nd unit playmaking.

Not to mention Manu will be dead by January.

[TD 21]

No, it's the best possible starting lineup on this roster and has the potential to be as good as any in the league, in time.

But the rotation needs to be altered . . .

The way I see it, this is the best possible realistic (I can't see Pop going with Marjanovic over West or going strictly down to three, in perpetuity, this early) big rotation: Sit Duncan from roughly the 5 minute mark, in the 1st and 3rd, until the 9 minute mark, in the 2nd and 4th and Aldridge for the first six of the 2nd and 4th. This leaves only a 3 minute stretch where West and Diaw play together and maximizes the time Duncan and Aldridge play together.

I'd also go with Butler ahead of Anderson. If he can shoot threes around 40%, he stays; if not, scour the trade/buyout market and hopefully find someone who can, at some point.

[TrainOfThought5]

Hmmmm.... Kyle would trade off matchups with Green the same way Parker would. It would give us an insanely long starting backcourt. Id still rather see patty get the first crack at it.

[ElNono]

I would completely discount Manu starting. Pop is going to limit him more than he ever has. He is scheduled to not play many B2B and he should be around 20 minutes ideally. Patty has an increased role, at which he has struggled. Him and Tony have had ballhandling issues. His court vision is not better than Tony's, he's just more unlikely to dribble/dribble and would rather pass to cut for a shot and a better 3 pt shooter, but in terms of setting others up, and court vision you have a tough case in favor of Patty. Danny can run the simplest side PnR and has improved in passing, but I feel that as it concerns to Danny, he's prone to klutzy plays, that means that he really needs chemistry and familiarity more so than others to know what he needs to do and who he can set up for shots how. Otherwise, he will be prone to wild chaotic play.

Slowly but surely, Pop has to give a chance to Kyle. He was subbed as SG for a few minutes I believe. As much as everyone says he's redundant, our PG/SG combos lack in playmaking except for Ginobili, the one man you don't want to run to the ground this early.

I saw some PnR between Kyle and LMA in preseason that I have not seen anyone else run except Ginobili. Flame me, but we need some Anderson here or there. We are not getting enough playmaking in the starting unit. I know Pop wants Kawhi to be this point forward type, but honestly, he's not. Pop has said himself that elite passing can't really be coached. Do you notice how Manu just makes everyone play better??? Diaw??? No one else in our starting unit has that except TD, and him and Lamarcus are getting in each others' ways a whole lot. Tony and Danny are not these elite passers. Tony has been good bc of his uncanny chemistry with TD, and finding Danny for 3s, but what they are doing right now is something else.

You have to let Kawhi do his thing, because he is awesome, but he can't do it alone, and how do you fit everyone else? I don't know.

Not sure how this is going to turn out. I believe Kyle can help, just because he is an unselfish player in the Diaw mold. He will be fine finishing with 5/6 assist and 2 shots quite honestly. I believe he is the kind of guy who improves ball movement. He's also able to finish a possession if they get stuck and nothing comes out of what they were doing, we have seen him take shots at the end of the shot clock or draw fouls. The Spurs have been developing his decision making, but also his ability to get his own shot under duress if the ball ends up in his hands and he has to create. At this point, its up to Pop. He's being the tough coach that is making him earn it. That SAC game in preseason, Kyle was the best player in that game. He had some high assist games in low minutes with the bench in preseason and was a positive in several games. He was awesome next to Boban in the Rockets game. I mean, the guy is a terrific passer and we are stuck. If someone can run PnR with Boban, I wouldn't say that is easy!!! I mean we have talent but he's in the tough love/doghouse.

I'm not worried about Manu's minutes, because I know they'll be in the 20-25 range, and I know he'll sit back to backs... the question really is should he play the first 10 mins of the 1st and 3rd quarter with the starting unit and the last 4-5 mins of the game... see if the starting unit can get in some sort of rhythm offensively... he doesn't have to score, just distribute the ball so guys like Kawhi and LMA get comfortable and confident... the biggest problem right now is that LMA is too tentative, the offense is too bogged down, and with no penetration, Kawhi is just a jumpshooter and Danny a spectator. It's about bringing some energy to that unit, make the other team panic and start doubling our best guys, and going from there...

Then again, that might just happen naturally once Tony adjusts to his role, but if he does not, some other options need to be considered.

[TrainOfThought5]

Is pattys defense >or< tonys. If patty is better there, i dont see why he cant start.

[objective]

I think the solution is to make Parker the 3rd string. Maybe fitted in with 3 guard lineups where manu is the SF.

Parker is finished. He lost weight, not enough as he can lose more, but he's still just 2002 Terry Porter out there. His nickname should change from Tony Porker to Tony Porter. All the falling down, losing the ball, bad defense, the sad feelings watching him, it's there. He couldn't get a step on. Jose Calderon without a pick. He can't penetrate, can't finish on a fast break, can't defend, can't shoot dependably, and can't even handle the ball anymore. Porter still probably played better defense and shot better though.

I say start McCollum. He's been bad all season true, but I have more faith in him making plays and being active than Parker.

[itzsoweezee]

Even if pop doesn't start Patty, he needs to give him a lot more playing time. SA doesn't need Parker's penetration. What it needs is outside shooting. The Kawhi/Lamarcus/Tim frontcourt will be unstoppable if opposing teams have to stay home on the guards. You can't have a frontcourt dominant offense if only one of your guards can shoot.

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem with Mills has been that he's not a playmaker and he's a questionable ball-handler for a PG..with the current starting lineup, it may not be as big of a deal as in previous years, though, since they don't have a penetrating playmaker, anyways..maybe having another shooting threat that can score off the dribble can elicit a different reaction from opposing defenses..

There's also a lot of redundancy in Parker/Leonard/Aldridge, too..

[dabom]

Patty needs to start. We win a 'ship if he does.

[ElNono]

The problem with Mills has been that he's not a playmaker and he's a questionable ball-handler for a PG..with the current starting lineup, it may not be as big of a deal as in previous years, though, since they don't have a penetrating playmaker, anyways..maybe having another shooting threat that can score off the dribble can elicit a different reaction from opposing defenses..

There's also a lot of redundancy in Parker/Leonard/Aldridge, too..

I just think he would provide better spacing if we're going repeatedly to Kawhi/LMA/Tim in the post... nobody is scared of Tony's shot, but Patty is a different story, IMO... defensively at this point is a wash, tbh, with Patty maybe having a slight advantage due to quicker feet....

[RD2191]

I think the solution is to make Parker the 3rd string. Maybe fitted in with 3 guard lineups where manu is the SF.

Parker is finished. He lost weight, not enough as he can lose more, but he's still just 2002 Terry Porter out there. His nickname should change from Tony Porker to Tony Porter. All the falling down, losing the ball, bad defense, the sad feelings watching him, it's there. He couldn't get a step on. Jose Calderon without a pick. He can't penetrate, can't finish on a fast break, can't defend, can't shoot dependably, and can't even handle the ball anymore. Porter still probably played better defense and shot better though.

I say start McCollum. He's been bad all season true, but I have more faith in him making plays and being active than Parker.

[HarlemHeat37]

This isn't anything new, too, although I can't remember the offense looking as bad as it does right now, stylistically..

I'm referring to struggles from the SL, though, which has been the case several times over the past few years..it was just 2 years ago that Green was benched for Belinelli due to his struggles and the poor chemistry in the SL IIRC..there was also long stretches where the Kawhi/Duncan/Splitter trio looked pretty ty on offense(negated by the defense, fortunately) IIRC..

The current lineup is going to be more difficult to solve..

[TrainOfThought5]

The problem with Mills has been that he's not a playmaker and he's a questionable ball-handler for a PG..with the current starting lineup, it may not be as big of a deal as in previous years, though, since they don't have a penetrating playmaker, anyways..maybe having another shooting threat that can score off the dribble can elicit a different reaction from opposing defenses..

There's also a lot of redundancy in Parker/Leonard/Aldridge, too..

At this point in their careers, I feel that Tony has regressed to the point where he isnt the playmaker he used to be (Parker has never been a naturally elite playmaker). And with Leonard taking more Ballhandling and distribution duties I think its all overemphasized. Patty's elite 3 PT shooting and speed and pesky hustle defense will be a much needed boon for this offense providing incredible spacing and and a more effective offense for KL/LA/TD to operate. as well as decreasing the amount of dependence we'll have on DG's streaky 3 PT shooting.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Start Kyle. Let him guard whichever opposing 1/2/3 is the weakest offensive threat. Sub him early with Mills, if needed. Let Tony acclimate to the 2nd unit.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I think the solution is to make Parker the 3rd string. Maybe fitted in with 3 guard lineups where manu is the SF.

Parker is finished. He lost weight, not enough as he can lose more, but he's still just 2002 Terry Porter out there. His nickname should change from Tony Porker to Tony Porter. All the falling down, losing the ball, bad defense, the sad feelings watching him, it's there. He couldn't get a step on. Jose Calderon without a pick. He can't penetrate, can't finish on a fast break, can't defend, can't shoot dependably, and can't even handle the ball anymore. Porter still probably played better defense and shot better though.

I say start McCollum. He's been bad all season true, but I have more faith in him making plays and being active than Parker.

Little early too be drunk already.

[TrainOfThought5]

Start Kyle. Let him guard whichever opposing 1/2/3 is the weakest offensive threat. Sub him early with Mills, if needed. Let Tony acclimate to the 2nd unit.

The Defensive possibilities here are intriguing. KA's long limbs and instincts have proven to be effective against NBA backup wings, and his offensive capabilities have solidified with that floater and midrange pullup. My issue is his slow release from 3, ability to handle pressure defense, and properly run the offense for the starters. if Danny was an even AVERAGE ball handler/playmaker I would be leading the charge for this to happen.

Still. I love KA and i'm positive that hes going to be a unique star in this league. just not this year.

[HarlemHeat37]

At least these problems are occurring now, fortunately..only 5 games into the season, a ton of time to figure out, hopefully..the high-end talent is already on the roster, which is the most difficult thing to acquire for an NBA roster..

[TrainOfThought5]

At least these problems are occurring now, fortunately..only 5 games into the season, a ton of time to figure out, hopefully..

I trust in Pop, I dont think he'll have the heart to bench Tony to start Patty, but I'm holding out hope he'll give Boban some burn.

[TD 21]

At least these problems are occurring now, fortunately..only 5 games into the season, a ton of time to figure out, hopefully..

Making the changes I suggested is the best possible rotation, but honestly, the pieces just don't fit together off the bench.

It's not as big of a deal in the playoffs, when they can essentially go down to an 8 man rotation, but this team needs a top 3 seed if they're going to have a realistic chance to win the championship. It's a catch 22, because it may require a virtual 8 man rotation to have a solid shot at a top 3 seed, but because of the age/mileage of 4 of the top 8, they can't go with that for 82 games.

It's difficult to fault the West signing, for obvious reasons, but his presence ruins the big rotation. It limits the time Duncan and Aldridge, the best big duo in the league, play together and forces Pop to, in close games (which is almost all games for this team in the past year plus), either run Duncan into the ground in the 2nd half or play a portion of crunch time with him out, to manage his minutes.

I'm not really concerned with the back court, though.

[TrainOfThought5]

Making the changes I suggested is the best possible rotation, but honestly, the pieces just don't fit together off the bench.

It's not as big of a deal in the playoffs, when they can essentially go down to an 8 man rotation, but this team needs a top 3 seed if they're going to have a realistic chance to win the championship. It's a catch 22, because it may require a virtual 8 man rotation to have a solid shot at a top 3 seed, but because of the age/mileage of 4 of the top 8, they can't go with that for 82 games.

It's difficult to fault the West signing, for obvious reasons, but his presence ruins the big rotation. It limits the time Duncan and Aldridge, the best big duo in the league, play together and forces Pop to, in close games (which is almost all games for this team in the past year plus), either run Duncan into the ground in the 2nd half or play a portion of crunch time with him out, to manage his minutes.

I'm not really concerned with the back court, though.

Would we be bad guys if we traded west/Mcallum and a pick?

[TD 21]

Would we be bad guys if we traded west/Mcallum and a pick?

Yeah. They'll only trade West if he requests it.

Here's what I think they should do if he does: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=253864&page=2

[Robz4000]

I'm with the group for not changing the SL. We're 5 games into the season at this point, lets see where the team is in mid December. If a change does need to be made still I'd bench Parker for Mills, but if that happens it prolly means Pop is going to stick with the ISO-heavy mid-range offense, and if that's the case it won't matter because the team won't win anything anyway.

I'm much more concerned with the closing unit tbh. Pop needs to bench Parker when it's close and he's not giving the team anything on offense while getting torched on D or when they're playing the Westbrook's/Wall's/athletic PGs of the league because he simply can't be on the court against them in close situations. Manu/Green/Kawhi/LMA/Duncan can be a monster closing out games.

[Cry Havoc]

I can't believe people on Spurstalk are actually in favor of starting SloMo to HELP our defense.

Have you guys ever actually watched him play? smh

[Maj_G]

good points! I was thinking of Manu starting myself the other day. Danny Green will provide our second unit with much needed defense. Also how about Timmy coming off the bench? As others have mentioned we need Timmy or LMA on the court at all times. Boris + West are just a liability right now.