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  1. #76
    Believe.
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    I have a problem with specialization - what happens when kids don't know what they want to do. There are a lot of magnet schools here in Miami where there is a certain theme like engineering, health, etc. My kids, like lots of others I'm sure, don't know what they want to do by 8th grade (when you apply for magnet high school). Would you believe that it's not so easy to find a good school that just offers a variety of subjects and lets you pick and choose what you want to take instead of being on a track.

    Wasnt it better in the olden days when Whites got ALL of AA's give a ways and freebies? How many years ya figure you whites got ALL the freebies because blacks werent even aware they supposedly had rights? I figure hundreds .

  2. #77
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    I have a problem with specialization - what happens when kids don't know what they want to do
    They may not know what they want to do...and some will even decide to change their track late in the game, ...but most kids already know if they want to put in the extra time to be college material....I'm talking about better Universities here....the vocational schools can be where kids can change their track or they can recommit themselves to higher expectations and a greater workload...at the college bound student middle/high school....

  3. #78
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    yes, really.

    Read the briefs in support of UT.

    http://www.utexas.edu/vp/irla/Fisher-V-Texas.html

    Just about everyone believes there is.
    Is this opinion based on your reading of all the briefing and the cited case law? If so, can you explain a little bit more than "yes really?" Or did you just do some googles?

  4. #79
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    45 of the Fortune 100 companies filed amicus briefs in favor of UT. Military leaders, every Ivy League university, the NY Bar, the federal government, etc. all support affirmative action in college admissions and filed briefs in favor of UT. Sorry, you're laughable "rainbows and unicorns" rebuttal doesn't change that and doesn't make it untrue.

    College life at diploma mills is basically what you described. You probably attended one, so that's no surprise. At better colleges, it's considerably different.
    Fortune 100 company's have pretty broad based diversity iniatives, so their filing amicus briefs isn't surprising. Nor is it evidence of the substantive merit of diversity based claims. Those corporations desperately want to appeal to softer, liberal social tendencies to offset the perception that they place profits over people, the environment, etc. The same holds true of the military (who draws large swaths of its recruitment from minority populations).

    I could be wrong, but from the last time I recall reviewing these issues, there was a strong absence in literature systematically backing the claim that a) diversity improved overall academic achievement for all students or b) substantively improved the conditions of minority students at elite schools. From my own experience, minorities tended to place near or at the bottom of my class, did not assimilate or interact with the larger white student body, and pretty much were viewed as having received special treatment solely on the basis of their race, not their legal skills. This even translated to law review selections, where students with higher first year gpas were passed over in favor of minorities with lower gpas, but with the ability to claim preferred racial status.

  5. #80
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    AA is another great tool in alleviating the sense of white guilt. It's ability to deliver on the promises of improved academic achievement -- which should be the sole goal in any educational environment -- have not been demonstrated.

  6. #81
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Is this opinion based on your reading of all the briefing and the cited case law? If so, can you explain a little bit more than "yes really?" Or did you just do some googles?
    I read many of them -- they're extremely similar for the most part. They're short. Read a couple. I know, that's asking a lot especially after I linked you to them.

  7. #82
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I read many of them -- they're extremely similar for the most part. They're short. Read a couple. I know, that's asking a lot especially after I linked you to them.
    Sweet, so if you took a look at them, maybe you could give us a synopsis of the argument, based on the case law? I'd love to have your thoughts first before jumping into the briefing.

  8. #83
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Fortune 100 company's have pretty broad based diversity iniatives, so their filing amicus briefs isn't surprising. Nor is it evidence of the substantive merit of diversity based claims. Those corporations desperately want to appeal to softer, liberal social tendencies to offset the perception that they place profits over people, the environment, etc. The same holds true of the military (who draws large swaths of its recruitment from minority populations).
    So you think diversity in fortune 100 companies is just essentially just a PR gimmick?

  9. #84
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    So you think diversity in fortune 100 companies is just essentially just a PR gimmick?
    Having been retained by fortune 100 companies, and knowing their engagement requirements for the projects I was involved with, yes. That's anecdotal, but I'd love to hear the evidence to the otherwise.

    Where are we on the legal synopsis?

  10. #85
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    Wasnt it better in the olden days when Whites got ALL of AA's give a ways and freebies? How many years ya figure you whites got ALL the freebies because blacks werent even aware they supposedly had rights? I figure hundreds .
    All races are equal except when it comes time to right the sin of slavery. You devils never ing did right by anyone but your selfish selves. You devils used terrorism to keep blacks out of your schools. it was only the damn 60's when they damn near had mass coronaries because of black folks being let in. wtf is it with you ing dishonest mother ers. Most of the time blacks were here in america, they'd get beat for reading a godamn book. lol
    I think you are preaching to the wrong person. My aunt is black, one of the most wonderful women I know who took care of us while my parents worked is black, my best friend was black. I grew up and went to school in a country where over 92% are black - listening to reggae and Michael Jackson. I'm asian - not white.

  11. #86
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Having been retained by fortune 100 companies, and knowing their engagement requirements for the projects I was involved with, yes. That's anecdotal, but I'd love to hear the evidence to the otherwise.

    Where are we on the legal synopsis?
    You're not getting one from me, lol. If you can't read what I linked you to (where there are plenty of arguments supporting the benefits of AA which was my original claim), then sorry.

    Read this or do I need to copy and paste the text too? https://utexas.app.box.com/s/3zfsmlo...ijonx7cy62i31e

  12. #87
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    You're not getting one from me, lol. If you can't read what I linked you to (where there are plenty of arguments supporting the benefits of AA which was my original claim), then sorry.

    Read this or do I need to copy and paste the text too? https://utexas.app.box.com/s/3zfsmlo...ijonx7cy62i31e
    Cool, so you're either unwilling or unable to give us any legal basis -- based on your reading of the briefs -- for th claim that there's a benefit to diversity as you suggested earlier upstream.

  13. #88
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I was asking for an explanation behind the "yes really" claim. saying "read the briefs dummy" isn't responsive.

  14. #89
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    saying "read the briefs dummy" isn't responsive.
    Cool. Unless you're unable to read even the one brief I linked to you, then it is responsive.

  15. #90
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Cool. Unless you're unable to read even the one brief I linked to you, then it is responsive.
    I never asked for the briefs, just your interpretation of them and the surrounding case law. Don't see why you're scared of giving me an answer, dummy.

  16. #91
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    I never asked for the briefs, just your interpretation of them and the surrounding case law. Don't see why you're scared of giving me an answer, dummy.
    Because it's a waste of time. I gave you a link to a brief that contains arguments that mirrors my own. There's absolutely no reason for me to have to walk you through them unless you're too dumb to understand them, dummy.

  17. #92
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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  18. #93
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    hard to argue rights were infringed if Fisher and the other applicants were all qualified:

    I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that Fisher was “unqualified” to attend UT Austin. Fisher had grades and test scores in a range in which some people are accepted to UT, and has gotten a degree from LSU. Maybe UT Austin is so much more rigorous than LSU that Fisher couldn’t have successfully obtained a degree from the former, but good Randy Newman one-liners aside I doubt this is true.


    This might seem like a semantic issue, but mischaracterizing the issue this way plays into the hands of opponents of affirmative action. Implicit in Scalia’s questioning and willful distortion of Richard Sander’s research is an assumption that the selective and high-demand schools where affirmative action is most relevant are distinguishing between “qualified” and “unqualified” applicants. But this isn’t true. Schools like UT get many more applications from qualified applicants than it has slots. UT is choosing among qualified applicants, not drawing a line between “qualified” and “unqualified” applicants. This makes affirmative action particularly appropriate. There may be atypical cir stances in which an affirmative action program results in a genuinely unqualified person being admitted to a university or given a job, but this is a badly designed program, not a cons utional violation, and there’s no reason to think it’s true of UT in any case.
    The author of the most intelligent and substantive critique of affirmative action in the U.S. Reports is, ironically, an excellent illustration of this distinction. Would Clarence Thomas have been accepted to Yale School based on strictly race-neutral admissions criteria? Probably not. Would have he had been nominated to the Supreme Court is George H.W. Bush did not take race into account? Of course not. Was he “unqualified” for either position? Plainly not — he successfully completed his law degree at Yale and has been a more-than-able Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States whatever one thinks of the substance of his views. And Supreme Court nominations are a case where the argument that presidents are choosing The One Most Qualified Candidate rather than from among a large pool of fully qualified candidates is particularly specious (and, when it comes to arguments such as “Princeton and Yale Law’s Circuit Court judge Sam Alito is qualified and Princeton and Yale Law’s Circuit Court judge Sonia Sotomayor is not,” flatly racist.)


    It’s entirely fair game to criticize Fisher’s sense of en lement, but the issue is not whether Fisher was “qualified” to attend UT. The question is whether Fisher’s rights were violated when UT choose other qualified applicants instead of her. The answer is that they were not.
    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/...ications-dodge

  19. #94
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    For black students at Texas, Supreme Court remarks are a burden added


    As a chemical engineering major who aced high school science courses and was a regional leader in the National Society of Black Engineers, becoming a physics tutor at the University of Texas at Austin came easily to Claiborne Jones.
    But students never seemed to seek his help.

    "People I was tutoring would blow me off, as if I didn't know what I was talking about, and ask someone else if it was correct," Jones, 21, said.

    Black students at the university, particularly in the sciences, found themselves on the defensive again last week after Justice Antonin Scalia, during arguments before the U.S. Supreme Court, questioned whether admitting more black students would benefit them or the university. The case before the court, Fisher vs. University of Texas at Austin, is likely to affect the future of affirmative action nationwide.

    "We're engaged in research, studying abroad, people are graduating, going on to become doctors and professors. Black students do deserve to be at UT, and we are excelling," said McDonald, 22, who is majoring in education and black studies. "Everyone kind of felt attacked by his remarks."

    Sitting next to him in the gallery was Christle Nwora, 21, of Dallas, a fellow senior pre-med major who also took note when Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asked why diversity matters in science classes.

    They started the Twitter hashtag #StayMadAbby — referring to the plaintiff — including their graduation photos, credentials, references to their advanced degrees and the school's trademark burnt orange Longhorn logo.


    At the Austin campus, some African American students said Scalia's comments underlined their ongoing challenge to try to feel safe and belong, especially in the sciences.


    Jones recalled his first night on campus, when he and some friends were walking down the main drag and a group of guys in a passing van yelled racial expletives.


    "That wasn't even the worst thing that happened that year:
    Students were getting bleach-ballooned," he said, referring to a series of attacks in which water balloons filled with bleach were hurled at black students, prompting protests. At one point, Jones said, a white friend insisted on walking him home for his own safety.

    The discomfort was felt not only by students from low-income neighborhoods and urban schools, like Jones, but also those whose parents were wealthier and had earned advanced degrees.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/educati...213-story.html

    Yes, right-wing SCOTUS, America has come a long way since the 1960s, so gut the VRA, this is post-racial America.



  20. #95
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    Study: Scalia Better Off in “Less Advanced” Court


    WASHINGTON — A new study conducted by legal scholars indicates that Justice Antonin Scalia would fare better if he served as a judge at a court that was “less advanced” than the United States Supreme Court.

    According to the study, Scalia’s struggles to perform his duties in a competent fashion stem from his being inappropriately placed on a court that is “too demanding” for a person of his limited abilities.

    “Forcing Justice Scalia to weigh in on complex legal issues that he lacks the background or ap ude to comprehend is, at the end of the day, cruel,” the study said.


    The legal scholars theorized that Scalia would be more likely to thrive in a “lesser court where he does not feel that he is being pushed to hear cases that are too challenging for him.”


    “If Scalia were reassigned to a ‘slow track’ ins ution such as a town traffic court, that would be better for everyone,” the study recommended.

    http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/study-scalia-better-off-in-less-advanced-court

  21. #96
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    He doesn't belong on any court.

  22. #97
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I'm against quotas (and any large change tbh) but here's what it teaches kids: Don't spend 300 years enslaving and depriving an entire race else your ancestors will have to someday make reparations.

  23. #98
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Study: Scalia Better Off in “Less Advanced” Court


    WASHINGTON — A new study conducted by legal scholars indicates that Justice Antonin Scalia would fare better if he served as a judge at a court that was “less advanced” than the United States Supreme Court.

    According to the study, Scalia’s struggles to perform his duties in a competent fashion stem from his being inappropriately placed on a court that is “too demanding” for a person of his limited abilities.

    “Forcing Justice Scalia to weigh in on complex legal issues that he lacks the background or ap ude to comprehend is, at the end of the day, cruel,” the study said.


    The legal scholars theorized that Scalia would be more likely to thrive in a “lesser court where he does not feel that he is being pushed to hear cases that are too challenging for him.”


    “If Scalia were reassigned to a ‘slow track’ ins ution such as a town traffic court, that would be better for everyone,” the study recommended.

    http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/study-scalia-better-off-in-less-advanced-court
    purposely making the URL tiny and off-color so nobody would see it.

    like... dude, we clearly know its parody, why do you go to such lengths to hide it?

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