If we had bruce bowen

[lefty]

Massive troll job here I actually grew up in NC in the 90's so I saw a lot of Hornet games. Dell was a very one dimensional player. He was a great shooter who could light it up from anywhere on the court but unlike his son lacked good ball handling skills and didn't have the ability to drive to the hoop. Dell got most of his points from playing off the ball, pick and rolls, and from the double teams of other star players such as Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson and then Glen Rice. He also had a history of choking under pressure especially during the playoffs. Bruce was able to shut down superior players in his prime such as Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton. There is no a doubt Bruce would have locked down Dell. To me Stephen's rise is still surreal since I watched Dell as a kid and never could I imagine he would have a son that would not only supersede him as a player but would be the best player in the league. For spur fans this would be the equivalent to Bonner or RJ having a son that dominates the league.

I know

[daslicer]

I know

I understand sometimes I miss the sarcasm in these posts.

[Dre_7]

Your initial post wasn't about Bowen just being great.

You are right, my initial post was about the fact that some people have forgotten how great he was and that he was a better defender than Green currently is. I still stand by that.

So it does imply that your arguments are supposed to contrast with Green and to a lesser extent Leonard.

I never implied he was better than Kawhi. I said people forget how great he was and that he was better than Green is, but that doesn't mean he is better than Kawhi.

Our conversation IS about this comparison, as is the spirit of this thread. Bowen was great in his time, and he might have still been great in today's league (and no, that's not a given considering how different the players and officiating are). But he isn't mystical compared to the current guys.

Not mystical, just one of the greatest defenders of all time. Better than Green curently is (but I will say that Green will be considered better in time). Not better than Kawhi. And the conversation is about whether he would help against the Warriors on today's squad. Yes he would. The conversation wasn't whether I would trade Green or Kawhi for him.

[Proxy]

I mean... what're we judging their defense by when their roles don't have real statistical representation? I remember Bruce being clutch when he had the open shot, and he was smart and knew his role. Things Danny s up on here and again. If their defense is a wash (and it isn't), then I'll take the smarter player. I like Danny, but some of you underrate the out of Bruce.

[Hoops Czar]

People are forgeting how damn good Bowen was as a defender. I love Green but he isn't a better defender than Bowen was.

Too bad the Spurs couldn't create a Green-Bowen hybrid. They'd have one of the best defenders the league has ever seen behind Kawhi of course. Bowen had a high BBIQ but lacked the physical tools to guard quicker guards. Green has the physical tools but has a low BBIQ, getting beat by the same play over and over and over again.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bowen was perfect for his era, tbh..I'm not sure f he could start with today's style of basketball, though..

He makes Green look like Ginobili, from an all-around skills perspective

[Hoops Czar]

Bowen was perfect for his era, tbh..I'm not sure f he could start with today's style of basketball, though..

He makes Green look like Ginobili, from an all-around skills perspective

Tony Allen says hi.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Too bad the Spurs couldn't create a Green-Bowen hybrid. They'd have one of the best defenders the league has ever seen behind Kawhi of course. Bowen had a high BBIQ but lacked the physical tools to guard quicker guards. Green has the physical tools but has a low BBIQ, getting beat by the same play over and over and over again.

& fouls shooters instead of planting his foot under their legs so they'll trip and get hurt.

[Hoops Czar]

& fouls shooters instead of planting his foot under their legs so they'll trip and get hurt.

That's no different than the offensive player kicking the defender trying to pick up a cheap foul. Back then, it was legal and he wasn't the only player doing it.

[Brazil]

The Spurs didn't seem all too keen to retire Bowen's jersey at first, so he kind of had a public campaign to get it done. I actually think that had the Spurs held fast on Avery, 12 would have been free to use.

I don't remember this episode at all but I trust you on this one even though I've hard time imagining Bowen doing a public campaign about that. Anyway On the end contrary to some, I m totally fine they retired his jersey... He deserved it

[Chinook]

I don't remember this episode at all but I trust you on this one even though I've hard time imagining Bowen doing a public campaign about that. Anyway On the end contrary to some, I m totally fine they retired his jersey... He deserved it

Remember, he had a new platform with ESPN, so it was probably something they encouraged him to do.

[Chinook]

You are right, my initial post was about the fact that some people have forgotten how great he was and that he was a better defender than Green currently is. I still stand by that.

I never implied he was better than Kawhi. I said people forget how great he was and that he was better than Green is, but that doesn't mean he is better than Kawhi.

Not mystical, just one of the greatest defenders of all time. Better than Green curently is (but I will say that Green will be considered better in time). Not better than Kawhi. And the conversation is about whether he would help against the Warriors on today's squad. Yes he would. The conversation wasn't whether I would trade Green or Kawhi for him.

You're perfectly allowed to think Bowen is better than Green. And I'm allowed to think the opposite. I was merely arguing against your points. It wasn't like I insulted you or anything. My point isn't that Bowen is so bad that Green is better than him. It's that Green is legitimately that great. His D in the playoffs has been the best on the team for three years running, statistically. Kawhi gets and deserves a bunch of praise, but Danny has been absolutely insane when it comes to some of the numbers he holds guys to. It's a great shame that people don't know what he does. Bowen never had to deal with that while he was playing.

[Chinook]

I mean... what're we judging their defense by when their roles don't have real statistical representation?

There's a ton of that. But in respect to Bowen fans, we have to pretend like there isn't any way to quantify what he did, even though there are stats that reflect favorably on him.

I remember Bruce being clutch when he had the open shot, and he was smart and knew his role. Things Danny s up on here and again.

I don't have shooting data from that far back, but it's likely that people remember Bowen as being more consistent than he was. There's just too much natural statistical variation for there not to be streaks. People act like the only thing time can do is fade the good things about a person. But it can also fade the bad things.

In his best (Spurs) year from three 2002-2003, Bowen shot 20 percent or worse from three on 25/82 games -- 30.4 percent. In Green's best year, he shot 20 percent or worse in 20/66 games -- 30.3 percent. Bowen's worst (Spurs) year from three was actually 2003-2004, and he shot 20 percent or worse in 31/82 games -- 37.8 percent. Green's worst (Spurs) year from three is this season (obviously) and he's shot 20 percent or under from three in 21/60 games so far -- 35 percent. I'm pretty sure actually doing every year would yield similar results. Bowen wasn't a more consistent shooter than Green, and he was FAR more limited. The idea that Bowen would be the pick even if the defense is a wash, is incomprehensible by me.

(Note, the previous paragraph is not what I'd call shooting data.)

[turkish spurs fan]

he would make steph curry injured stepping under him after his 3. we miss him.

[Dre_7]

You're perfectly allowed to think Bowen is better than Green. And I'm allowed to think the opposite. I was merely arguing against your points. It wasn't like I insulted you or anything. My point isn't that Bowen is so bad that Green is better than him. It's that Green is legitimately that great. His D in the playoffs has been the best on the team for three years running, statistically. Kawhi gets and deserves a bunch of praise, but Danny has been absolutely insane when it comes to some of the numbers he holds guys to. It's a great shame that people don't know what he does. Bowen never had to deal with that while he was playing.

Just now saw this today. Gotta say I agree almost 100%. I love Danny Green and think he is highly underrated simply because he plays with Kawhi. I still think Bowen is better than him on the defensive end of the floor but you won't hear me complain about Danny. I love him!