life on other planets infinitely impossible or rather, probable?

[pgardn]

Well when you take into consideration nobody can prove you wrong why not take a stab at it. And your guess is as good as anyones elses, which is a rarity. Few things find everyone on the same level of ignorance.

I see alien beings that resemble a large snake, a snake with intelligence. Tall and lean, with large eyes and elongated limbs. Very slow in movement but precise and calculated in those movements. They find us amusing in appearance and are totally baffled at our warlike at udes and aggresive behavior. Curious about why we are no different when it comes to violence than what we were a 1000 years ago when they first discovered us. In their world violence towards a fellow Amonian is unheard of. Only in the swamps and jungles on Zamboria and Tauras where the wild life dwell do they see something similiar to an earthling.

Always a vertebrate... A snake. Never been used before (Bible go figure)

This is yet again such a colloquial view of life. And honestly I would never read or watch something so washed out and used time and time again.

[pgardn]

Good sci-fi, like any good fiction or art, asks important questions. TV and movies tend to be entertainment and drama overlaid onto the basic questions.

There is some reason to think that life will develop some symmetry, as even primitive life on our planet has such.

No, actually there is not. Bilateral symmetry was a very late and possibly unlikely "invention"

The really interesting question is why it took so long to go from Prokayotic cells to Eukaryotes. This must be an extremely difficult evolutionary step based on the amount of time it appeared to take.

Based on Earth's history we should not be looking for bilateral organisms, we should look specifically for something like bacteria. Which is exactly what we do.

[pgardn]

"After determining that the ocean beneath the icy surface of Saturn’s moon Enceladus has roughly the same pH as Windex or soapy water -- an indication that the water has been in contact with rock, creating potentially life-friendly chemistry -- scientists are moving on to the trickier hunt for evidence of hydrothermal venting............... "

http://news.discovery.com/space/alie...dus-151215.htm

The moon stuff has become stunning. The 4 moons around Pluto totally unexpected, and 3 of the 4 appear to be very different from each other.

[Blake]

The moon stuff has become stunning. The 4 moons around Pluto totally unexpected, and 3 of the 4 appear to be very different from each other.

What's stunning to me is Saturn being a heat source, almost like it's it's own solar system

[Avante]

They dont come close for me. Especially if you are specifically interested in life. Assimov was very good at explaining science to the masses. His fiction is a reflection of this.

There is a difference in appreciating the art of film making and story telling compared to the absolute incredible diversity of oddities that many will never appreciate without understanding biology. No human I have ever read comes close to creating what nature has actually given us. So I guess we need to separate these.

One has to attempt to understand biology to really appreciate life and evolution. I suggest you read Stephen J. Goulld's collection of Natural History Articles concerning life on Earth. Hen's Teeth And Horses Toes, As a starter, then the Pandas Thumb.

I'm not however interested in the known that's why alien life forms are so compelling this is the unknown which will always trump the known. Going where we haven't gone before is intriguing, simply glossing over old news, nay.

To think that somewhere out there there are planets and beings so different that anything we can imagine is exciting.

[Blake]

Eyup. We will probe, and eventually someone will get some samples back.

What happens if/when the samples include primitive organisms?

The probability of life existing elsewhere in the universe increases exponentially for starters

[Blake]

I'm not however interested in the known that's why alien life forms are so compelling this is the unknown which will always trump the known. Going where we haven't gone before is intriguing, simply glossing over old news, nay.

To think that somewhere out there there are planets and beings so different that anything we can imagine is exciting.

Yeah, it'd be real fascinating to see how other life forms evolved throughout the universe

[Avante]

Yeah, it'd be real fascinating to see how other life forms evolved throughout the universe

Yes it would be and their belief in their Gods also fascinating.

[pgardn]

What's stunning to me is Saturn being a heat source, almost like it's it's own solar system

Gravity is strong and pulls the insides of moons, pretty neat stuff. Pluto apparently has/had an active moon as well.
Truly fascinating.

[Blake]

Yes it would be and their belief in their Gods also fascinating.

No reason to assume they would believe in gods

Or that they're as intelligent as us

[pgardn]

Yes it would be and their belief in their Gods also fascinating.

Why would you expect life elsewhere to contemplate itself? And therefore have beliefs in any thing. Nervous systems really don't need to have this ability, in fact it maybe a disadvantage. It could be argued We are manipulating our world to an extent as to be harmful.

I totally don't get why we think life elsewhere would develop this way. We are close to a "miracle" if you look at the history of life on Earth.

[pgardn]

No reason to assume they would believe in gods

Or that they're as intelligent as us

Beat at me to it.

[Avante]

No reason to assume they would believe in gods

Or that they're as intelligent as us

There is also no reason to assume they don't have Gods or are less intelligent than earthlings. As we all know something is going on with all these UFO sightings, just too many of them. And if they are capable of coming from other galaxies they are far superior to us when it comes to flight. Which would take superior intellect.

[baseline bum]

Fermi Paradox imo. Where is everybody?

I don't think it's much of a paradox. The universe mostly empty space, so the distances between intelligent life forms are likely to be enormous. When you factor in that information can't travel faster than light, it's not really surprising that there would be no contact.

[Blake]

There is also no reason to assume they don't have Gods or are less intelligent than earthlings. As we all know something is going on with all these UFO sightings, just too many of them. And if they are capable of coming from other galaxies they are far superior to us when it comes to flight. Which would take superior intellect.

Yeah, if they're fast superior to us, they're probably shaking their heads and laughing at us in an alien way that we can't comprehend for believing in gods.

Like how we shake our heads and laugh that we all used to think the earth was flat.

[Avante]

Yeah, if they're fast superior to us, they're probably shaking their heads and laughing at us in an alien way that we can't comprehend for believing in gods.

Like how we shake our heads and laugh that we all used to think the earth was flat.

I think it would be more about them seeing us as confused inferiors with our misunderstandings about the Gods. Something they never questioned or had divided ways of worship. A global understanding of the Gods. Yes a group of superior beings.

[Blake]

I think it would be more about them seeing us as confused inferiors with our misunderstandings about the Gods. Something they never questioned or had divided ways of worship. A global religion.

Neh, my way makes sense. Yours relies on them proving that gods exist.

[Avante]

Neh, my way makes sense. Yours relies on them proving that gods exist.

Who said they had to prove anything? This thing about a hide and seek God is what we play. No reason to assume they have to.

I said they never questioned it, why would they when their Gods dwell among them?

[pgardn]

Here is another problem with the Fermi Paradox and why Physicists need to study the history of life on Earth:

• With high probability, some of these stars will have Earth-like planets, and if the Earth is typical, some might develop intelligent life.

Enrico, big fella, the history of life on Earth really shows us how improbable intelligent life should be. If you look at the history of just vertebrates it shows how improbable they most likely are. Re run the history of life over and over and the highest form of life is most likely bacteria at the very most. It took over 2 billion years just to get eukaryotic cells.
The universe is only about what, 13 billion years old. Just getting single cells that are precursors to multicellularity with differentiation in function... Why? This clearly indicates to me Eukaryotic cells are extremely unlikely to create through evolutionary processes.

[Avante]

Here is another problem with the Fermi Paradox and why Physicists need to study the history of life on Earth:

• With high probability, some of these stars will have Earth-like planets, and if the Earth is typical, some might develop intelligent life.

Enrico, big fella, the history of life on Earth really shows us how improbable intelligent life should be. If you look at the history of just vertebrates it shows how improbable they most likely are. Re run the history of life over and over and the highest form of life is most likely bacteria at the very most. It took over 2 billion years just to get eukaryotic cells.
The universe is only about what, 13 billion years old. Just getting single cells that are precursors to multicellularity with differentiation in function... Why? This clearly indicates to me Eukaryotic cells are extremely unlikely to create through evolutionary processes.

Once again how do we know any of that would pertain to beings from another demension or a galaxy far far away. Everything about other life forms could be totally different. To try and use our understanding of things when we actually have no idea how things might be when dealing with alien life forms....why?

[pgardn]

Once again how do we know any of that would pertain to beings from another demension or a galaxy far far away. Everything about other life forms could be totally different. To try and use our understanding of things when we actually have no idea how things might be when dealing with alien life forms....why?

Give me a definition of life then.

I must have this in order to discuss other life forms. What makes something alive?

[pgardn]

If you answer with anything besides "I don't know" you're blowing smoke. Why do you need to answer it? We are ignorant of these things, so if we form an opinion on something we know nothing about, we're basically building dogma around what should be science. Let's wait until we know something and then speculate just a bit further to build predictive models based on scientific method instead of front porch chatter.

[clambake]

a bunch of superior beings creating life on different planets, sorta like a league, which means we're the hole.

[pgardn]

If you answer with anything besides "I don't know" you're blowing smoke. Why do you need to answer it? We are ignorant of these things, so if we form an opinion on something we know nothing about, we're basically building dogma around what should be science. Let's wait until we know something and then speculate just a bit further to build predictive models based on scientific method instead of front porch chatter.

You cannot talk outside of your boundaries. You might think you can but how do you get mentally there if it's outside your boundaries? More amazing familiarity. You're approaching epistemology from a 3rd person perspective but you're not a remote viewer. You're actually part of the experiment.

[Avante]

Give me a definition of life then.

I must have this in order to discuss other life forms. What makes something alive?

We really don't know what makes other life forms alive thats why this is a great topic. No need to wander off into why we are alive, that means nothing here. We are the known, they are the unknown. And being the unknown how can we possibly use our/earthlings/human limitations/laws and rules to explain anything about these unknown species of whatever life is in their relm?

Imagine ancient man the first time he encountered a lake/river/ocean. Obviously nothing could live there.