Give me a good reason why MVPaddy shouldn't start

[pgardn]

Not sure what you mean by that. Patty has brought the ball up plenty, even when Manu ends up running plays. He's done it in the playoffs, including the NBA Finals. He's actually a tough cover dribbling due to his speed and generally good handles. He's not a prolific passer, but protecting the ball certainly isn't one of his problems. A full-court press strategy is short lived too. It's only effective as a surprise mechanism, but pretty easy to foil once you know it's coming.

Now Simmons or Danny, yeah, definitely wouldn't want them bringing the ball up. So you don't do that. Kawhi is not bad either these days, especially now that he seems to be getting "star" calls.

Not with consistent pressure game after game. Players that dribble high and can't change directions easily and frequently are dead meat with consistent pressure IMO. This is a huge weak spot for Mills. He thrives in the open floor with room to run already with a full head of steam.This is exactly why he is paired with Manu. Manu can for short periods. And so can Patty in the regular season here and there with teams that don't care to exert the energy.

This is a horrible spot to put Patty in though. Tight spaces making him change directions often. It makes much more sense to let him thrive where his strengths lie. Let Parker handle this chore. It won't be much of a chore for him anyway, it's about the only part of his game that has not degraded to the point as to become a spot to take advantage of. Although Parker will not blow by anyone anymore and make them pay for pressure.

This is what I see. We need a point. Most teams have players that can do more for their offense than Parker and carry out this basic function. Especially to Pop's satisfaction. We apparently do not.At least I know it's not Mills for significant periods. And I know that if he is asked to do this he will not be nearly as effective at his best role which is at 2. IMO if you want Patty to start, start Tony or Manu opposite him. Preferably Manu. And I don't think we want Green and Parker with the 2nd unit.

The people on the board who just spew numbers don't even notice the situations those numbers are created in... I am tired of reading the other silliness.

[kaji157]

Right now, moving Tony to the second unit will disrupt everything. Thats the unit that is keeping the spurs afloat while the starters are figuring it out.

Plus, Tony seems unable adjust to anything of what is needed from him. He has not become defensive minded, has not become a better off the ball player, nor a floor general and distributor. It is really disappointing because both Tim and Manu adjusted so well to their own declines.

The better choice is to stand pat with Tony, and keep limiting his minutes until you have him about 15 minutes a game all in the first half, there you have 25 minutes for Patty and 13 minutes to develop either Murray or Laprovittola.

I agree with Nono, we have to face that Tony is not going to be traded unless he demands it, weather it helps the team or not.

Keeping Tony will be remember as the epitome of "being loyal to player", too bad it will cost the Spurs a total amount of 45 millions for a ty production.

[Ice009]

1. TP will never be traded not matter how bad he gets
2. Patty is not a PG. It's ok to play him at the end of a game when Kawhi is running the offense, i.e. willing the team to a win.

Didn't even read.. sorry if I'm redundant.

Thanks.

I'm going to bring up a point here. If Parker isn't traded and he plays out his contract, what happens if the FO doesn't want to re-sign him and he decides he wants to play longer and joins another team? That would mean that the Spurs carried him for no reason at all. If the Spurs don't want him back and someone else offers him a contract, I'm sure he'll take it, as correct me if I am wrong, he said he wants to play until he's 40? The loyalty they showed him then becomes worthless, so I don't see the point in being loyal if the player is not cutting it. At 39, Manu overall looks better and more spry than TP at this point. I also don't think TP is on the same level as Duncan and Manu when it comes to team icons.

[kaji157]

I'm going to bring up a point here. If Parker isn't traded and he plays out his contract, what happens if the FO doesn't want to re-sign him and he decides he wants to play longer and joins another team? That would mean that the Spurs carried him for no reason at all. If the Spurs don't want him back and someone else offers him a contract, I'm sure he'll take it, as correct me if I am wrong, he said he wants to play until he's 40? The loyalty they showed him then becomes worthless, so I don't see the point in being loyal if the player is not cutting it. At 39, Manu overall looks better and more spry than TP at this point. I also don't think TP is on the same level as Duncan and Manu when it comes to team icons.

He might receive the Horry treatment. "We would love to have you, our roster is just so full."

[pgardn]

I'm going to bring up a point here. If Parker isn't traded and he plays out his contract, what happens if the FO doesn't want to re-sign him and he decides he wants to play longer and joins another team? That would mean that the Spurs carried him for no reason at all. If the Spurs don't want him back and someone else offers him a contract, I'm sure he'll take it, as correct me if I am wrong, he said he wants to play until he's 40? The loyalty they showed him then becomes worthless, so I don't see the point in being loyal if the player is not cutting it. At 39, Manu overall looks better and more spry than TP at this point. I also don't think TP is on the same level as Duncan and Manu when it comes to team icons.

Manu's total skill package is what has kept him in the league. Parker could never match this.

He is amazing.

[Ice009]

I just want a defensive PG that can distribute the ball.

[spursistan]

I'm going to bring up a point here. If Parker isn't traded and he plays out his contract, what happens if the FO doesn't want to re-sign him and he decides he wants to play longer and joins another team? That would mean that the Spurs carried him for no reason at all. If the Spurs don't want him back and someone else offers him a contract, I'm sure he'll take it, as correct me if I am wrong, he said he wants to play until he's 40? The loyalty they showed him then becomes worthless, so I don't see the point in being loyal if the player is not cutting it. At 39, Manu overall looks better and more spry than TP at this point. I also don't think TP is on the same level as Duncan and Manu when it comes to team icons.

IMO, if they could dump him next summer to the Knicks and Phil Jackson, they should bite the bullet and do it. NY isn’t going to pay Rose big money in FA. If they miss out on CP3, an expiring TP and maybe another cheap PG could be a sort of stopgap solution. I don’t think Tony will say no to life in NYC alongside another frenchie (Noah)..It is probably the last chance for potential Parker trade..

[Yuixafun]

Corporate knowledge and coasting Parker and slightly resentful. Once he embraces the moment he will still be our best starting pg. He didn't just forget how to play. Ideally, if everyone plays their role, we have 5 types of scoring in the starting unit. Parker needs to play like a hybrid of Manu and Mills, without trying to force his offense, but when he sees daylight he needs to take it too and be aggressive.... Parker has a tough dilemma and balancing act of ego and instinct and letting go. He has all the tools to be the perfect fit. But the old Parker needs to die, to be reborn. We should have some empathy. He's got his pride, but he needs to evolve it into dignity, which Timmy always had.

[BillMc]

I feel sorry for Tony as he was "the baby" of the big three. So, when he saw Tim and Manu effective in their late 30's he probably assumed he'd last that long. But now in his mid 30's, he may go out a season or two after Duncan/Manu.

Some of this statistical decline, though, is Tony is not being asked to do much to a) keep divas LaMarcus and Pau happy, b) allow Kawhi's leadership to grow, and c) preserve his body. As I said in an earlier post, I think Patty should stay with the second team. So, the question will become is our third string PG better than Tony? Is Nico, Forbes or Murray ready? I have to say no. So, for now, Tony should stay right where he is. Long term, who can say. I suspect Tony's role will continue to dwindle until he retires or asks for a trade or gets the Bonner/Horry/Bowen treatment. (Bowen as I recall his rights were traded at the end).

Anyone remember how Pop dealt with Elliott or Avery at the end? Were they forced into retirement? I can't recall.

Manu will be another interesting ending. We expect this to be his last year. But if he chooses to come back will he be worth 14 mil again? Eventually he'll only be worth a low salary. And, if so, will he take it, retire, or take the money from some other team for one final awful year in Philly or somewhere else?

My hope is both Tony and Manu retire as Spurs. I give it only a small chance that both do so.

[Fireball]

Some of this statistical decline, though, is Tony is not being asked to do much to a) keep divas LaMarcus and Pau happy, b) allow Kawhi's leadership to grow, and c) preserve his body. As I said in an earlier post, I think Patty should stay with the second team. So, the question will become is our third string PG better than Tony? Is Nico, Forbes or Murray ready? I have to say no. So, for now, Tony should stay right where he is.

I agree ... its more important who ends the game, so Patty should stay with the bench at least for now. Hopefully Pop realizes that Patty should be the PG in crunch time right now ...

[100%duncan]

I feel sorry for Tony as he was "the baby" of the big three. So, when he saw Tim and Manu effective in their late 30's he probably assumed he'd last that long. But now in his mid 30's, he may go out a season or two after Duncan/Manu.

Some of this statistical decline, though, is Tony is not being asked to do much to a) keep divas LaMarcus and Pau happy, b) allow Kawhi's leadership to grow, and c) preserve his body. As I said in an earlier post, I think Patty should stay with the second team. So, the question will become is our third string PG better than Tony? Is Nico, Forbes or Murray ready? I have to say no. So, for now, Tony should stay right where he is. Long term, who can say. I suspect Tony's role will continue to dwindle until he retires or asks for a trade or gets the Bonner/Horry/Bowen treatment. (Bowen as I recall his rights were traded at the end).

Anyone remember how Pop dealt with Elliott or Avery at the end? Were they forced into retirement? I can't recall.

Manu will be another interesting ending. We expect this to be his last year. But if he chooses to come back will he be worth 14 mil again? Eventually he'll only be worth a low salary. And, if so, will he take it, retire, or take the money from some other team for one final awful year in Philly or somewhere else?

My hope is both Tony and Manu retire as Spurs. I give it only a small chance that both do so.

Man, I can handle losing Tony as much as I idolized the guy. But Manu should be a Spur for life.

[ceds]

where is this coming from?

Parker has had 15 years to learn how to pass on the break or throw an alley......its just not in his DNA.....At least mills knows how to run a fast break.

TP was always a scoring guard...Mills knows the offense and has experience running the playbook effectively...Also Kawhi will have the ball to close out games this season.

His defensive toughness is underrated just like his speed used to be. So far this season he has been an asset on that side of the ball.

Its time...He's ready to start and be let loose. We need to see what he's capable of with 35 mins....Im hoping we have TP on the block

Ive always maintained 20+ and 5 with a couple of steals and hustle plays mixed in.

[Perry Mason]

Very True.

We don't need him to score. We really should not need him at all. But we don't have another player who can handle the ball well and space the floor without going completely into turnover mode if pressed. He takes pressure off getting set up. Ideally he should be able to more but he is not able to.

The point is that distribution keep the ball safe relive pressure guy does not exist. This is important with a 24 second/ 8 second half court rule. It's something we should NOT have to worry about as it is basic but we do have to worry about it for a 48 minute game.

This is a key point. Put aside regular season games. You need an outlet in the playoffs and after February when the double-team, traps and pressure come for ball-handlers. Kawhi is working his way to point-forward land. But for now TP is the best ball-handler among the point guards and has the most experience in splitting traps and finding big men.

[Perry Mason]

Not sure what you mean by that. Patty has brought the ball up plenty, even when Manu ends up running plays. He's done it in the playoffs, including the NBA Finals. He's actually a tough cover dribbling due to his speed and generally good handles. He's not a prolific passer, but protecting the ball certainly isn't one of his problems. A full-court press strategy is short lived too. It's only effective as a surprise mechanism, but pretty easy to foil once you know it's coming.

Now Simmons or Danny, yeah, definitely wouldn't want them bringing the ball up. So you don't do that. Kawhi is not bad either these days, especially now that he seems to be getting "star" calls.

I just don't agree. Patty doesn't handle the press as well. And Kawhi probably isn't there yet either (nor does he need to be). Maybe Patty can now (he as definitely improved), or maybe he can by the playoffs. But the press comes in all types, the full-court, and then the trapping and double-teaming, etc.

[MaNu4Tres]

I just don't agree. Patty doesn't handle the press as well. And Kawhi probably isn't there yet either (nor does he need to be). Maybe Patty can now (he as definitely improved), or maybe he can by the playoffs. But the press comes in all types, the full-court, and then the trapping and double-teaming, etc.

Lol the press. What's this college basketball?

Hardly any NBA teams utilize the press. Bringing up the ball is one of the most simplest tasks in the NBA. Patty, Kawhi, Manu are fine w/ doing it.

[Perry Mason]

Lol the press. What's this college basketball?

Hardly any NBA teams utilize the press. Bringing up the ball is one of the most simplest tasks in the NBA. Patty, Kawhi, Manu are fine w/ doing it.

Do you watch the NBA playoffs? The entire Miami Heat defense for 3 years was a pressing defense at crunch time. OKC under Scottie Brooks did the same. And I was quite clear it isn't just about bringing up the ball. Please read the actual posts in this thread ok? Otherwise you aren't adding anything.

[NameLess Scrub]

I'm going to bring up a point here. If Parker isn't traded and he plays out his contract, what happens if the FO doesn't want to re-sign him and he decides he wants to play longer and joins another team? That would mean that the Spurs carried him for no reason at all. If the Spurs don't want him back and someone else offers him a contract, I'm sure he'll take it, as correct me if I am wrong, he said he wants to play until he's 40? The loyalty they showed him then becomes worthless, so I don't see the point in being loyal if the player is not cutting it. At 39, Manu overall looks better and more spry than TP at this point. I also don't think TP is on the same level as Duncan and Manu when it comes to team icons.

What I think is going to happen is that a) Spurs will somehow find a replacement, or b) when Tony's contract expires, he'll either retire or resign for cheap. By then he'll definitely come from the bench and the Spurs will have some replacement lined up.

I do think Tony will get treated as an icon. Good enough for the team even if not by Timmy/Manu/DRob standards.

[NameLess Scrub]

Corporate knowledge and coasting Parker and slightly resentful. Once he embraces the moment he will still be our best starting pg. He didn't just forget how to play. Ideally, if everyone plays their role, we have 5 types of scoring in the starting unit. Parker needs to play like a hybrid of Manu and Mills, without trying to force his offense, but when he sees daylight he needs to take it too and be aggressive.... Parker has a tough dilemma and balancing act of ego and instinct and letting go. He has all the tools to be the perfect fit. But the old Parker needs to die, to be reborn. We should have some empathy. He's got his pride, but he needs to evolve it into dignity, which Timmy always had.

I agree. Tough time for him.

The big question is whether he'll be successful adjusting, as hard as he could try.

[NameLess Scrub]

Do you watch the NBA playoffs? The entire Miami Heat defense for 3 years was a pressing defense at crunch time. OKC under Scottie Brooks did the same. And I was quite clear it isn't just about bringing up the ball. Please read the actual posts in this thread ok? Otherwise you aren't adding anything.

I think for now, as long as Kawhi can successfully play point forward / Kobe mode in the final minutes of close games, Patty will do. But if a better ball handler is needed at PG, Tony is probably still the man to protect the ball and keep some control.

[MaNu4Tres]

Do you watch the NBA playoffs? The entire Miami Heat defense for 3 years was a pressing defense at crunch time. OKC under Scottie Brooks did the same. And I was quite clear it isn't just about bringing up the ball. Please read the actual posts in this thread ok? Otherwise you aren't adding anything.

No I don't watch the playoffs. I only watch preseason.

You're clueless if your biggests worry to Parker starting or not, is how the Spurs would bring the ball up. First of all, its' not a full court press, usually in the NBA its just picking up full court and in the NBA its not effective if the objective is to cause turnovers or steals. Usually whenever a teams elect to pick up full-court its to disruspt the offense by getting the ball out of the players' hands or to take as much time off the clock. However, Ball-handlers and most wings are too good with the ball in the NBA. Most of the time, teams pick up at half court. Sure there are instances where teams like to pick up full court and apply pressure on the ball handler, but that subtle wrinkle in a defense isn't sustainable for majority of the 48 minutes.

But yes, lets be worried about the vaulted press defense that teams utilize all the time.

[spursistan]

IMO, if they could dump him next summer to the Knicks and Phil Jackson, they should bite the bullet and do it. NY isn’t going to pay Rose big money in FA. If they miss out on CP3, an expiring TP and maybe another cheap PG could be a sort of stopgap solution. I don’t think Tony will say no to life in NYC alongside another frenchie (Noah)..It is probably the last chance for potential Parker trade..

On topic: Parker won't be significantly worse for them than this cancer..

[beirmeistr]

Parker would never get traded, unless he asks for a trade to reclaim his glory somewhere else.

[MultiTroll]

What has always pissed me off about Parker is he just doesnt seem to care for LONG stretches. Offensively, hes made his living getting to the paint with ease but now he cant. He doesnt play good defense. I cant even remember a time Parker has drew a charge tbh. His court vision has always been subpar and Ive never seen him at least look like hes been hitting the gym with some consistency.

I think its always been safe to assume he was always a good PG within a great system which makes him look better than what he actually is. Nothing new to see this year. Its always been this way, just now its more obvious due to better talent around him. Nash, Kidd, CP3 and Billups were all better than Parker. I dont think theres any denying that.

[philldafunk]

I haven't had a chance to really catch any games yet this season, is it really that bad?

[MultiTroll]

OP, only good reason is as has been said, Patty seems to work better with most of the 2nd unit.
As to having a better starting point guard, a trade or acquisition will not happen. Parker is the new Bonner.
Pop has already shown he will value player over team in the playoffs, even at the cost of a 'Chip.
No reason to think that is gonna change. We can still hope.