Moving Mohammed

[SpursIndonesia]

I've always longed for a good, young, potential Long SF as Bruce's future replacement rather than worrying about keeping a big who's service can be covered by other bigs that we have.

Nazr is a luxury that's not always the most rightful thing to have for this franchise's long term sake.

Rasho might not be the perfect answer, but i do believe that he's workable in our team system. And Oberto is molded the same way of Manu's, so the probability of him being successfull in this league is quite promising IMHO.

I think Nazr will still start for the going season, but if the FO can't get some sort of commitment from him for a financially responsible extension, and others showing some sort of interest in him & willing to trade with decent bargain, he'll be gone in the midseason.

Not bad for a first post, huh

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Dude, honestly.

How many times have you seen the opposing team's point guard and shooting guard LAY IT UP OR DUNK right in Rasho's no-hops having face?
Compare that number, per game, to Nazr's.

All I know is, once Nazr started, I stopped saying the all-to-familar phrase:

" ON OUR CENTER!!!?!!???!!! "


He may play good Team/Preventive defense, but once that guard is in the lane he's as worthless as a dying, suffocing, fish.

(that's just defense, his no-hops havin ass doesn't even konw how to pick up garbage duncan points)

What would you have Rasho do in those situations? Foul the guy? Act like he is Dikembe Mutombo and block him and wave his finger?

A lot of other centers also get caught out when they have to decide on whether to foul the damn guy or just give up on the play. If the opposing point guard or shooting guard is blowing by our perimeter defense, is it Rasho's fault? Rasho isnt a blocking stud. Nazr only gets ur blood pumping cause he goes up and challenges. Most of the time he gives up the foul. Sometimes he gets lucky and blocks a couple. Does it mean hes better on defense?

Shaq also has problems when quick guards get into the lane all his career. Does it mean Shaq's D is sucky?

Oh and I think I remember a play when Rasho blocked the living daylights out of a lousy ass of a shooting guard called Kobe Bryant. Kobe was left so stunned after that block that he didnt know whether to scream at the refs for not calling a foul or find a garbage bag to put over his head.

On the offense part. Has it occured to you why Nazr gets garbage points? Cause where would you put him if you were Pop? On the baseline to knock down a short jumper? Nazr doesnt have a jump shot. He aint a threat outside the paint. You gotta put him in the paint to be effective. Thats why he gets garbage points. Rasho on the other hand can hit the short mid range jumper and can thus pull the center out of place. This then allows Duncan and our slashers more space inside to score easier baskets. Thus less garbage points.

Lastly, if Duncan were to go down injured, who would you want as your center? Rasho who has shown that he can get a double double most nights without Duncan or your super hero Nazr?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I would like just one of you blabbering idiot to say: Rasho is to blame on .4 loss. Then I would die happy and smart.

If your boy Astro-Slovenian did not allow at least 2 layups in his face that game, then the point four shot would not have mattered.

Wreck shop like they roll don dubs? Please. Statistically Nazr didn't do that much more that what Rasho did the year before except this past year, Ginobili rose his game to whole nother level. In effect, the Spurs benefitted more from that than any contribution that either Rasho or Nazr provided.

Statisically, if you are talking player averages, those numbers are entirely irrelevant to anything that could be said in any legitimate Spurs thread.


Ginobili rising his game is partially irrelevant.

And Horry showed up after the first round.

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{all of the following is in reply to dalamar_the_dark..I don't mean to scoff him personally, cuz i respect his screenname}

If the opposing point guard or shooting guard is blowing by our perimeter defense, is it Rasho's fault?

No.

Rasho isnt a blocking stud.

Exactly.

Nazr only gets ur blood pumping cause he goes up and challenges.

Exactly. If it gets my blood pumping, guess how much it gets THE PLAYERS ON THE FLOOR pumping. Just think.

Most of the time he gives up the foul.

So does Astro-Slovenian Rasho just by putting his hands up. Would you rather give up a foul by holding your hands up like a little or jumping and challenging? hmmm (stop and think of the number of and-one's rasho gives up...)

Sometimes he gets lucky and blocks a couple. Does it mean hes better on defense?

Granted, so does rasho. And, yes, I would consider who gets more blocks to be a better defender.

Shaq also has problems when quick guards get into the lane all his career. Does it mean Shaq's D is sucky?

No...he doesnt...you're thinking of parker too much..

Oh and I think I remember a play when Rasho blocked the living daylights out of a lousy ass of a shooting guard called Kobe Bryant. Kobe was left so stunned after that block that he didnt know whether to scream at the refs for not calling a foul or find a garbage bag to put over his head.

Yes. A PLAY (as in, ONE play. I have it on video as well.)

On the offense part. Has it occured to you why Nazr gets garbage points?

Yes. Because he can jump at decent level for his height.

Cause where would you put him if you were Pop? On the baseline to knock down a short jumper? Nazr doesnt have a jump shot.

Neither does Rasho. (at least not when it matters)

He aint a threat outside the paint.

And rasho does? rofl

You gotta put him in the paint to be effective.

ehhhhhh you're trying to defend rasho, right?

Thats why he gets garbage points.

And the fact is Rasho gets 1 out of 3 or 4 possible garbage points.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh

Rasho on the other hand can hit the short mid range jumper and can thus pull the center out of place.

Yes, when we're already up by at least 12 or 14 points. Point out this upcoming season when Rasho hits a clutch jumper. I'll give you credit.

Lastly, if Duncan were to go down injured, who would you want as your center?

Nazr.

Rasho who has shown that he can get a double double most nights without Duncan or your super hero Nazr?

Technically this point is moot cuz we don't have enough games of Nazr solo like we do Rasho. But I'd still say Nazr.


------
Rasho has hit one clutch shot the entire previous season.

It was the christmas-ish-time Timerwolves game. I took pego, mookie, and I to the game for a christmas gift. Rasho grabbed a lose ball and actually dunked it.

Honestly, I am not bull ting here: The entire SBC Center got so ing pumped that Astro-Slovenian actually had the balls to dunk it that they erupted thunderously. This was in the 4th quarter while the game was NECK AND NECK. After this crowd eruption the spurs proceeded to overcome the Twolves.

Why would the entire SBC Center erupt at an all time night-high if Rasho were so good?
They were ing begging for him to finish all ing game that's why.


(in a partial counter-point, olowakandi was having a bad ass game, and mostly against duncan, not rasho)

[bigzak25]

With Oberto's price at $2.5 mil per season, Radoslav on the books for $30 mil over the next four seasons and Scola in the wings it is apparent that this will be Mohammed's last season (or half-season, for that matter) with the Spurs. With an expiring contract and at a relatively low salary in the final year of his contract Mohammed should be an attractive player on the trade block. So what can they hope to get for him?

A few potential suitors...

Atlanta Hawks

They are in dire need of quality bigs. Collier or Pachulia as a starting center? Yikes.


Memphis Grizzlies

Things have apparently soured with Lorenzen Wright, whose contract also ends after the 2005-06 season. After him they have Jake Tsakalidis.


Golden State Warriors

They always seem to be looking to deal.


Portland Trailblazers

They've endured declining production out of Ratliff and after him there's Pryzbilia.


New York Knicks

Zeke is at the helm.


Boston Celtics

Ainge might be amenable to an upgrade over LaFrentz.

I'd rather keep Naz til the end of the season. Seeing as how he was our main bigman in the playoffs after TD with Rasho picking splinters out of his tail, and seeing as how Oberto, while I have very high hopes, has yet to play vs NBA bigmen on a night in night out basis, i believe it is simply too early to make plans to let Naz go.

and he might suprise and settle for a lesser contract to stay with the Champs.

as many have said, it all depends on Rasho's progress or lack thereof.

at least our FO has options. they've set themselves up well.

[ploto]

It's going to be funny next summer to see all the people flip-flop who wanted Rasho traded for financial- contract reasons when Nazr is the one whose gone for that very same reason. By then it will be obvious that the more prudent financial choice will be Rasho's contract over what Nazr is demanding and the Spurs will go with the cheaper option at that time- which ironically by then will be Rasho.

[Man In Black]

Statisically, if you are talking player averages, those numbers are entirely irrelevant to anything that could be said in any legitimate Spurs thread.

Okay statistically the Spurs holding opponents to 40% shooting is irrlevant as well. them scoring 96 per is irrelevalt right?

Ginobili rising his game is partially irrelevant.

Riiiiggggggghhhhhhttttt!!!!

Like the Spurs could win the le without the uptick in Manu's partially irrelevant stats. Yeah

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Okay statistically the Spurs holding opponents to 40% shooting is irrlevant as well. them scoring 96 per is irrelevalt right?



Riiiiggggggghhhhhhttttt!!!!

Like the Spurs could win the le without the uptick in Manu's partially irrelevant stats. Yeah

I was talking about individual statistics.

And manu ginobili having a bad ass post season has absolutely no effect on Rasho sucking ass at Defense or Nazr being better at defense. I never said it was irrelevant to winning a le. Check the name of the thread.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's going to be funny next summer to see all the people flip-flop who wanted Rasho traded for financial- contract reasons when Nazr is the one whose gone for that very same reason. By then it will be obvious that the more prudent financial choice will be Rasho's contract over what Nazr is demanding and the Spurs will go with the cheaper option at that time- which ironically by then will be Rasho.

It's not a matter of Rasho's price being less than Nazr's. It's a matter of the Spurs already being on the hook for 4 years and $30 mil to Radoslav.

Honestly, I think that if Oberto shows that he is capable of starting in this league, and the Spurs are able to, they'll move out both Nazr and Radoslav within the year.

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.

[ducks]

I tend to agree with mb especially if they have to trade for bowen's replacement

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's not a matter of Rasho's price being less than Nazr's. It's a matter of the Spurs already being on the hook for 4 years and $30 mil to Radoslav.

Honestly, I think that if Oberto shows that he is capable of starting in this league, and the Spurs are able to, they'll move out both Nazr and Radoslav within the year.

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.

Naturally.
Hopefully we get Desagna Diop.

[Buenos Hairys]

OBERTO MAMMOTH PENIS DOMINATE NBA

[baseline bum]

I'd rather get nothing for Nazr and have him for the postseason than trade him just to get something that won't be good enough to crack our main rotation. The prospects of resigning him do look grim though when the only other decent bigs on the market will be Ben Wallace, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato, and possibly Jamaal Magloire.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd rather get nothing for Nazr and have him for the postseason than trade him just to get something that won't be good enough to crack our main rotation. The prospects of resigning him do look grim though when the only other decent bigs on the market will be Ben Wallace, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato, and possibly Jamaal Magloire.

Exactly. Getting rid of Malik's salary and having a center that can contribute to two championships isn't bad. It's not like there's a real need at the center position for this team anyway. A healthy Nazr or a healthy Rasho...does it really make a difference? Anyone that answers yes is fooling themselves.

[ploto]

The thing, though, Marcus, is that it is much easier to get rid of Nazr. His contract will be over and his demands will be higher than Rasho's deal, so you can just let him go. To get rid of Rasho you have to work out a trade. Remember, the Spurs took almost 2 years to trade Malik and that took Isaiah Thomas and 2 first round picks to do it.

[Obstructed_View]

The thing to remember is that Duncan functions as the backup center in SA. So with a starting center and Duncan there are already two centers on the roster.

Sorry, but in that scenario you are going to have both centers on the bench at the same time. So who plays center? Horry? Then who plays the 4? You need at least two bigs that you can call fives in addition to Duncan. That means you need to pay either Rasho or Nazr. If Nazr is going to want more money than Rasho is currently getting you have to decide if that's a good deal, because the only reason people are bagging on Rasho is because the Spurs are paying him. The honeymoon will end as soon as Nazr signs a big contract.

[Dre_7]

Exactly. Getting rid of Malik's salary and having a center that can contribute to two championships isn't bad. It's not like there's a real need at the center position for this team anyway. A healthy Nazr or a healthy Rasho...does it really make a difference? Anyone that answers yes is fooling themselves.

Yes there is a difference cuz Nazr is better than Rasho!

[Obstructed_View]

Yes there is a difference cuz Nazr is better than Rasho!

Nope. The only difference is your opinion of him, which means as much as nothing.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Nope. The only difference is your opinion of him, which means as much as nothing.

You cannot honestly tell me that there is no difference between nazr and rasho.

Yes Rasho positions himself better on defense, at least last season he did, but this new season we'll see if nazr gets the schemes better.

Nazr doesn't allow little ass point guards to lay it up in his face, and if he fouls the slasher, he fouls them. He doesn't just hold his arms straight up in the air and push them with his body to give them an easy and-1.

If nazr shows this season he gets the defensive schemes better then he is heads and shoulders above Rasho.

Also, Rasho cannot go up strong and finish once he's got a rebound. Nazr can do this. Yes nazr has that ty pump fake business, but he also has the ability to go up blogloads stronger and finish more than Rasho.

It's sad watching our center grab a rebound half a foot from the basket and try to float it in.

If nazr gets the defensive schemes better this year, keep him.
If Rasho somehow increases his athleticism then definitely keep rasho.

[Obstructed_View]

I can honestly (in my opinion) tell you that on this team, with Tim Duncan in the low post, there is no difference between the two, no matter how much you want to think so. Both of them have their problems on follow ups, Rasho goes weak half the time, Nazr walks or gets 3 sec. violations half the time. Both play good defense, decent offense, get rebounds, pass well, have decent hands, are big and understand the game plan, can score on occasion, have good days and bad days...

I can go on and on. For the same money, when both are healthy, there is no difference. I'd say "pick one" but you already have. That's fine, but you won't be able to convince me that there's a real difference. If this team gets to a point where they need the center to do more than he has been doing for the last couple of les, the team has no chance anyway.

Without Duncan, Rasho is probably a better low post scorer. He's also a better shot blocker, but he doesn't seem to be as tough or as timely. I'd be inclined to agree with you that Nazr might be a better fit just because you don't have to worry about him getting that slapped-puppy-dog face and suddenly melting out of a game or a series. Rasho has a tendency to be a little pink sno-ball. Nazr might be able to develop with some time in this system, but you've possibly either let him go or paid him more than Rasho money before you find that out for sure.

Again, it's a crap shoot and mostly a matter of opinion at this point. We should at least let them fight it out for the starting spot. I've been dying to see if Rasho will get his ass in gear for a friendly compe ion for the minutes at the five. Let's give it a couple of weeks before we ship one of them off.

And you have to admit, what a great problem it is to have. Remember when the Spurs didn't have a real point guard and couldn't get rebounds?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sorry, but in that scenario you are going to have both centers on the bench at the same time. So who plays center? Horry? Then who plays the 4? You need at least two bigs that you can call fives in addition to Duncan. That means you need to pay either Rasho or Nazr. If Nazr is going to want more money than Rasho is currently getting you have to decide if that's a good deal, because the only reason people are bagging on Rasho is because the Spurs are paying him. The honeymoon will end as soon as Nazr signs a big contract.

TD sees about 20 minutes a night at the 4 and 20 at the 5 in the playoffs. If you have the starting center giving you about 28 a night as he should then there's no need for another 5.

Who sees the other minutes at the 4?

Sure, I'd like to see the Spurs carry more bigman depth, but with an ownership that is spazzing out about paying a rounding error on total payroll for lux tax, it's not hard to see them both letting Mohammed walk and moving Radoslav.

[spurster]

To save money, the Spurs can simply let Nazr walk. As already mentioned, the Spurs have TD, Oberto, Rasho, Horry, and maybe next year Scola. Trading Nazr doesn't reduce salary.

[ducks]

spurs have scola next year when he wants to make the full mle before walking on a nba court and has a 15 million dollar buyout?

[Marcus Bryant]

To save money, the Spurs can simply let Nazr walk. As already mentioned, the Spurs have TD, Oberto, Rasho, Horry, and maybe next year Scola. Trading Nazr doesn't reduce salary.

Trading Mohammed could bring in a young 3.