What Is the Measure of Succes This Year?

[vy65]

you are being a revisionist like baseline bum... yea bc Kiwi turned out to be out the entire season you want to step into a time machine go back in time, trade aldridge and tank. that wasn't an option when they thought Kawhi would play... as I said a few replies above... even as late as midmarch he was trying to play this season. There is a lot of misinformation and BS put out in the media by rival GMs and competing interests for Kiwi's attention so you can't assume anything until chips fall where they may.

This is fascinatingly irrelevant to the point of my post.

[baseline bum]

So Aldridge will flame out earlier than Tim because he lacks the character to work out as much?

You may be right, but I don't think there's that much fairness or justice in these things.

Aldridge looks to me like he could go on for a long time.

He relies not at all on athleticism. He already runs the floor like a dork in the rec league prancing on eggs s -- what has he got to lose there?

Likewise, his offensive moves don't rely on explosiveness but rather on footwork which should stay with him.

Even his D at the rim is more based on position and smarts than hops.

He's nowhere near as good as TD but their games do seem to have some similarity in terms of longevity.

I wasn't making a character judgement. If his heart can't handle Duncan's level of workouts then that could be what causes him to age not nearly as well.

[baseline bum]

There's a lot to pick apart here:

1) The Spurs have a chance to be 14 games above .500. That's not mediocre. They didn't need much more luck to get to 50 this year. Only a spoiled fan thinks that's comparable to true mediocrity.
2) If you're counting a 35-win season, you may as well say it was a six-year rebuild with the 37- and 41-win seasons before that. Those seem like three mediocre years before the team let the bottom fall out.
3) It's not about how good the Spurs are at drafting. Players of D-Rob's caliber come out less than once per draft. So the chances of even being in position to draft that guy are really low. Robinson's relative impact is really getting short-changed here by a supposed long-time fan. You couldn't just swap him out with another All-Star and get the same result.
4) If the Spurs can find talent latter in the draft ... then they can just continue to do so without tanking. You simultaneously hold the view that RC will lead a quick rebuild powered by great picks but then dismiss their chances at finding another Kawhi, even though they'd have at least one really good pick just by trading Leonard in the first place. It's weird. It makes more sense to give RC a top-10 pick and asking him to compliment a roster than can win 50 games than it does to tear down said roster and ask Buford to do what he never has done before and build a team from scratch.




LMA is 32 right now. Who cares if he ends up being as good as Tim was at 39? The team just needs him to be good for two more seasons. That's their window, and they can make whatever moves around the expectation of 2020 being a potential rebuilding year. Aldridge should be fine until then. Also, you don't have to be Tim to have longevity. Pau is perfectly fine physically at 37 despite bragging about not working out.

1) Look at their record against the other playoff teams in the west and get back to me about how good they are. Tell me about their road record too.
2) I'm counting the years from when they dumped Iguodala
3-4) You ing about how rare a Robinson is and then want to put all your eggs into one basket with one decent draft pick from trading Leonard is kind of strange. I want multiple shots with good picks that would come from dumping Aldridge and tanking in addition to what they'd get for Kawhi. Stockpile picks and try to get a Durant but hope you get lucky enough that it's a LeBron or a Duncan instead.

LMA is two months shy of 33. What is this two year window they have? Is Aldridge going to get better over those next two seasons? Pau is perfectly lousy at age 37, at least for the money. I just don't get the upside at keeping a mediocre team together when it's going to be on a downward trend.

[Russ]

I wasn't making a character judgement. If his heart can't handle Duncan's level of workouts then that could be what causes him to age not nearly as well.

I didn't mean to imply it was strictly a character issue. It's just that physiology is random -- you can do all the right things and still die of some horrific disease or do all the wrong things and live a long long time.

What you do (can control) is just one of many factors.

However, your point about Aldridge's heart problem is a good one (but, ironically, working out less might actually help minimize that).

[SAGirl]

You're a dumbass. I specifically said had I known Leonard was going to be out for the season I would have traded Aldridge and tanked, which is what he was agreeing with.

then why are you having all these self defeating posts?
If your hypothetical scenario is not the reality, be a fan and enjoy whatever happens. Heck I'll be happy if Lamarcus doesn't repeat the appearance he had against GSW last season... His little mini redemption tour has been enjoyable... I mean we are fans here. And I was quite critical of LMA last summer... you can find posts from me somewhere getting upset that he was doubting himself passing up shots that were good and then taking awful shots like his mind forgot how to play basketball and disappearing. I enjoyed Manu this season too and Kyle if I am going to be honest. There is some hope with Dijon and also, I wished White had played. Rudy Gay lately is playing very well. There is always something enjoyable. IF you can't find joy in this team this year... then that is why I said you are acting like a whiner and being miserable.

I do understand the frustration with Kawhi... but we didn't know then what we know now... and we don't know for a fact he will not be back.. that still lies in the future. We thought Lamarcus was going to get traded last season and it didn't happen, so let this thing with Kawhi play out.

[baseline bum]

then why are you having all these self defeating posts?
If your hypothetical scenario is not the reality, be a fan and enjoy whatever happens. Heck I'll be happy if Lamarcus doesn't repeat the appearance he had against GSW last season... His little mini redemption tour has been enjoyable... I mean we are fans here. And I was quite critical of LMA last summer... you can find posts from me somewhere getting upset that he was doubting himself passing up shots that were good and then taking awful shots like his mind forgot how to play basketball and disappearing. I enjoyed Manu last season though and Kyle if I am going to be honest. There is always something enjoyable. IF you can't find joy in this team this year... then that is why I said you are acting like a whiner and being miserable.

I do understand the frustration with Kawhi... but we didn't know then what we know now... and we don't know for a fact he will not be back.. that still lies in the future. We thought Lamarcus was going to get traded last season and it didn't happen, so let this thing with Kawhi play out.

By your logic I can't complain about them throwing ridiculous contracts at Mills and Gasol or when they did it with Jefferson and Bonner for fear of being a spoiled fan. It's stupid to call it whining when someone sees the team making a mistake. When I'm in the middle of watching the games this season I illogically root for them to win but the other 22 hours of the day I think it's better for the team to focus on the big picture.

[SAGirl]

This is fascinatingly irrelevant to the point of my post.

it is relevant bc you are talking about being disappointed this season bc they should have tanked...

[vy65]

it is relevant bc you are talking about being disappointed this season bc they should have tanked...

Incorrect. The point I was responding to was your silly notion that you can draft whenever you like. Saying PATFO didn't know then what they know now is irrelevant to whether you can tank whenever you like.

[SAGirl]

By your logic I can't complain about them throwing ridiculous contracts at Mills and Gasol or when they did it with Jefferson and Bonner for fear of being a spoiled fan. It's stupid to call it whining when someone sees the team making a mistake. When I'm in the middle of watching the games this season I illogically root for them to win but the other 22 hours of the day I think it's better for the team to focus on the big picture.

yea you can complain, heck I have complained plenty about it too... I complain a fair amount, sometimes I get tired of myself complaining so I give myself a reprieve bc I wear myself out with my own cacophony...

but this thread is about how you measure success this year... and for you its a failure bc they didn't tank... (as you said hypothetical scneario where they can nostradamus the entire outcome with Kawhi and Ruy missing 30 games and judging they are better off throwing it all away at the beginning of the year and going in a tank at the beginning of this season.) Are you listening to yourself? This team reached the WCF last year and was looking very good b4 the injury... had they scratched the entire team to go tankastic this year... I have never seen something like that.

I suppose one can't expect fans to be rational. But I can't join you in that line of thinking. As Pop said about Kawhi: it's just an unfortunate situation...

[SAGirl]

Incorrect. The point I was responding to was your silly notion that you can draft whenever you like. Saying PATFO didn't know then what they know now is irrelevant to whether you can tank whenever you like.

you are going in circles and there is no point to follow you there.

[vy65]

you are going in circles and there is no point to follow you there.

Not at all. It's a pretty basic point.

[baseline bum]

yea you can complain, heck I have complained plenty about it too... I complain a fair amount, sometimes I get tired of myself complaining so I give myself a reprieve bc I wear myself out with my own cacophony...

but this thread is about how you measure success this year... and for you its a failure bc they didn't tank... (as you said hypothetical scneario where they can nostradamus the entire outcome with Kawhi and Ruy missing 30 games and judging they are better off throwing it all away at the beginning of the year and going in a tank at the beginning of this season.) Are you listening to yourself? This team reached the WCF last year and was looking very good b4 the injury... had they scratched the entire team to go tankastic this year... I have never seen something like that.

I suppose one can't expect fans to be rational. But I can't join you in that line of thinking. As Pop said about Kawhi: it's just an unfortunate situation...

It was based on conditioning on Kawhi being known to be out for the season. It's a hypothetical.

[Chinook]

1) Look at their record against the other playoff teams in the west and get back to me about how good they are. Tell me about their road record too.

1) Their records against playoff West teams besides Houston and GS was fine. It wasn't great, but it was middle-of-the-pack. If they beat NO tonight, they would have only lost one series against teams 3-9 in their conference. The only team in that range that didn't lose a single season series to their peers is Denver, and that won't be true if Minny beats them tonight. Also, it's not like they got trounced by Utah. They easily could have won another game or two in that series, and were even closer to sweeping NO going into tonight. And I'll go ahead and cut off the "but the they didn't" retort. They indeed didn't get it done. But the gap between doing it and failing to do it isn't a superstar/MVP candidate. It wouldn't take much improvement to get them to a point comfortably beyond this year's Portland team.
2) Talking about the Spurs, not the Sixers.
3) It's not weird. I'm not the one saying to put all the eggs in the drafting basket. Give RC a decent pick and see who he can add to a cleaner version of the current roster (since a Kawhi trade would have multiple moving parts for all teams involved). The option of tanking in the future doesn't go away just because they didn't do it this year. And your general view that they'll get a foundational piece within four years without specifically considering the talent coming out seems to suggest the only harm to waiting in your mind is having to "endure" a couple more 48-win seasons. Spoiled AF.

LMA is two months shy of 33. What is this two year window they have? Is Aldridge going to get better over those next two seasons? Pau is perfectly lousy at age 37, at least for the money. I just don't get the upside at keeping a mediocre team together when it's going to be on a downward trend.

1a) They have two years to build around Aldridge. That can involve seeing what they get for Kawhi and how they can swing roster upgrades off that. Worst-case scenario is LMA declines, and they waive him in 2020 and start over. Very few teams have a better "worst case" than that.
2a) Pau is physically fine at 37. He's "lousy" because he doesn't give a move of the time. There have been almost no signs of Pau getting worse in the past four years. , even in games where Pau played for more than 30 minutes this year, he averaged 18/13 /6 per-36 on 53-percent shooting.
3a) Spurs are not mediocre. No amount of repe ion will make that claim sound any less spoiled.

[SAGirl]

It was based on conditioning on Kawhi being known to be out for the season. It's a hypothetical.

I think in reality you are frustrated by the entire Kawhi Leonard saga and you would rather start over. that is a rational approach, not for this year, bc you didn't know Kiwi would miss the entire season. You still don't know he will not be back ever, or wants out and all of those rumors but ok you are eating up all the rumors and I can't say I blame you.

So bottom line, I think the Kiwi experience ruined this year for you and you don't care what happens to the team at this point for the postseason. It's been an entire failure bc he didn't play and nothing they can do can right that ship with you.

That kind of frustration I can understand.

[Chinook]

It was based on conditioning on Kawhi being known to be out for the season. It's a hypothetical.

I'm also not sure why you are up on this scenario. The idea for this would be to get a high pick to compliment Kawhi, but knowing what we know now doesn't make me feel any better about building around Leonard. If anything, had I known what was going to happen, I would have dealt Kawhi when his value was high for an unprotected pick and let Leonard tank that team's season instead. The idea of having Kemba on the roster this whole season and a top-five pick in the draft seems much more appealing than having a mid-first from Aldridge, a horrible season and maybe a top-five pick if they could have boxed out teams like Dallas who were actively sitting guys to lose more games.

[Proxy]

meh, '14 is a peak moment as a sports fan, and given Kawhi's , I'm really proud of the team for being where they are this year. Team has never had a loser's mentality since I've been alive, so the tanking goes against what I've always enjoyed about this organization. Wouldn't mind the team moving to Seattle once Manu and Pop leave, let the franchise go out with the Duncan/Pop era fairy tale because it isn't going to happen again

[tholdren]

You off. boohoo we have struggled. Boohoo team sucks... Bwaaaa let's tank
that's how you sound .

Sa girl instantly got better looking now that these types of posts are happening. Fingers crossed you are really a woman.

[SAGirl]

I'm also not sure why you are up on this scenario. The idea for this would be to get a high pick to compliment Kawhi, but knowing what we know now doesn't make me feel any better about building around Leonard. If anything, had I known what was going to happen, I would have dealt Kawhi when his value was high for an unprotected pick and let Leonard tank that team's season instead. The idea of having Kemba on the roster this whole season and a top-five pick in the draft seems much more appealing than having a mid-first from Aldridge, a horrible season and maybe a top-five pick if they could have boxed out teams like Dallas who were actively sitting guys to lose more games.

Wow... if we had a nostradamus machine or a time machine... dealing leonard last summer would have been a coup... which is why these scenarios are

Bottom line I think plenty of fans are frustrated by Kiwi's injury and the saga... that they will just consider this season a failure pretty much. don't have to justify that feeling I guess, we are talking about fandom.

I just have to respect that POV I guess. I have been frustrated a fair amount too at times. My biggest projected regret is that White didn't get an opportunity this year, I think he could have helped a guard rotation that struggles to score but I think Pop is loyal to Tony and for some reason Bryn. that is a subject for another thread I suppose.

[Dingle Barry]

My NFL team (until the prick moved em) was the St. Louis Rams and they had about a 5 year incredible run where they were extremely dominant. And then they had a .500 season in '05. It was so deflating. They still made the playoffs and actually became the first 6th (last) seed in history to win. Regardless, I was beyond annoyed as a fan. And then things got worse. They never saw .500 again. And years of 4-12, 1-15, 6-10, I dreamed of an 8-8 season and a taste of the playoffs again. No Super Bowl aspirations necessary, just a compe ive season. What I would have given to see that.

It's hard to do as spoiled Spurs fans, but we've got to do our best to eat this up while we can. Who knows, in 5 years, we could be longing for just a 7th seed playoff appearance. A team that despite jokes and mellow-drama, is compe ive, respectable, and has potential to beat anybody. Because all foolishness aside, our guys can potentially beat anybody or at least make a series interesting.

We're still in a golden age if you ask me. I'm trying to soak this season in as much as I can. We're not guaranteed another winning season ever again, Pop or not.

Great post. But I don't think anyone here would debate the point that we're spoiled. It's hard to get proper perspective when you've been on the run we have. Which makes it scary to think of the attendance at ATT when the bottom falls out.

[SAGirl]

Great post. But I don't think anyone here would debate the point that we're spoiled. It's hard to get proper perspective when you've been on the run we have. Which makes it scary to think of the attendance at ATT when the bottom falls out.

baseline bum will debate.

[Down Under]

Winning the 1st round would be a very successful season.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

I much prefer fans like you... than all these bunch of whiners and self defeatists tbh... I don't know how else to describe all these

I miss the "dirty" label. We aren't winning a championship, let's go ruin someone elses chance.

[MultiTroll]

Slim pickins.
For me the small successes were:

Seeing Murray progress until he can get on another team or the Spurs get a competent coach and FO.

Watching the Spurs Dancers.

Liked watching Rudy when he was on. The guy has some great offensive skills, albeit streaky.
Reading the burns on Snowflake Popped. Props to ElNono etc.
Watching LMA bully nigs at the end of this season. WTF he couldn't have been doing this 2 years.