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Wow, Bertans is a goddam bobblehead in that pic lol.
nice writeup.
Unable to watch game.
Q. How in the was MN unable to score at will the last 4 minutes with Patty n Bryn as Pops wall defense?
Wow, Bertans is a goddam bobblehead in that pic lol.
Stick to a point. Jones and Rose are the backups Lillard and McCollum are Portland's starters. Mills and Forbes are not the team's starting back court. Constantly acting like they are is dumb.
Looking at some scoreboards around the league, our defense doesn't look that bad, tbh.
Aldridge&BertansQ. How in the was MN unable to score at will the last 4 minutes with Patty n Bryn as Pops wall defense?
The point was you saying opponent backcourts wouldn't light up the Spurs for 40+ on a consistent basis. Rose and Jones play in the backcourt. And it doesn't matter if Paddy and Forbes are starting, coming off the bench or CLOSING, they're playing in the backcourt TOGETHER and getting lit up. Forbes on Lillard is going to be a sight to behold.
Take a look at the advanced and hustle stats, then you get an idea.
If anyone has ever had the chance to interact with Patty Mills or had their kids around him, you know the guy is a pretty cool human being. However, I'd argue that he has not been the same player since 2014's championship year. I've not paid as much attention to his defense but his offense has been terrible. He's not a good ball handler, looks uncomfortable dribbling and his shot isn't what it used to be. He definitely isn't living up to his contract and most of his contributions to the team are coming when he's not on the court.
He's a good locker room guy. His talent is only at the level of a second team player and was fine when Parker was still around. He can't compete as a starter. I would rather have Forbes in his place as a starter. At least Forbes is a little bit taller than Mills. Beggars can't be choosers.
I thought the same thing about Green after his paycheck contract. Both guys took a step back after getting paid. Both have dealt with some injuries, but you can tell some of the fire was gone after '14.
He is enjoying his money. He is at a time in his life where he has already won a championship and got fat paid. He is coasting now, didn't seem to put much work in during the summer just pics of him vacationing on instagram, no workouts. If he is getting paid for culture its got to be the whole "life is bigger than basketball" culture that pop sometimes preaches...
Wouldn't you trust the more mature White as starting PG? We all can notice the great impact a year into the system had on D White, the same thing will happen with Walker. Remember how White didn't look the player he is now on his first games with the Spurs. The same thing could happen to Walker, he is even younger.
Given the cir stances, I'd play Walker in the second unit sharing the backcourt with Mills, using Forbes to sub them if they struggle. I think Walker position is still undetermined so playing next to Mills would help him to define his game into the system. He's way more athletic and talented than Patty but needs time to start going up the ladder and playing surrounded by smart veterans (Gasol, Belinelli, etc.) would help him to develop his NBA game.
Regarding Forbes, we all haters (I'm in) have to admit the boy has worked and improved this summer. He's not a good player but at least his presence on the court has stopped hurting the team too much. Continues to be a defensive liability, but not 100% of times and looks more engaged. In offense, he's more confident and is making his shots at least. Obviously, Forbes is not an NBA starting player and no way a point guard, but there is no reason for not giving him some minutes at the moment. Maybe these weeks give him some value that can be used by the franchise on a trade... in our dreams. I'm afraid PATFO is not trading Forbes.
The latest updates say Derrick White could be out just for two more weeks. I think we can pull up home wins vs Pacers, Lakers and Mavs and win one of the three road games in Portland, Lakers and Phoenix. That would put the Spurs 5-2 on the standings. Let's not be that optimistic and say 4-3 before a theoretical White return on a home game vs the Pelicans on Nov 4th. I'd consider this a good start of the season keeping in mind the schedule, the injuries and the adaptation stage where our new roster is.
Once again, I'd like to say Gay coming from the bench as 6th man would make more sense to me. Moreover, starting Cunningham or Bertans would give these two players a better chance to make a positive contribution to the team, whereas them playing in the second unit won't allow them to have a significative impact on the game. Rudy, leading the second unit, would have the usage he needs and the bench needs to activate the passing game. Also, he won't be that exposed in the defensive end.
Let's be honest about effort, perhaps Mills doesn't make enough effort on the court. But he definitely is the one guy on the entire team that makes an big amount of effort on the bench and outside of the games. That is why he's part of the team.
Kawhi was the complete reverse. Made no effort in forming any relationship with any player on team. Made no effort outside of the games.
Fortunately, you can see Demar Derozan to be an entirely different person. He cares about his team mates. It showed in spades with the last win.
Spurs 2014 championship team cared about each other. That's what you need when you have LIMITED TALENT!
White's not healthy. If we're assuming everyone is healthy, I'm starting Murray, and Walker is in the d-league. But I'd totally start Walker over Forbes right now. At worst, I'd give him the Poeltl treatment where he'd get a handful of minutes each half with the starters. Outside of a championship run, the best thing that can happen from this season is that Walker develops into a legit starting option. As to a scenario where Walker and White are healthy, that's a difficult choice. I don't think Derrick has a higher upside with the starters, but he does fit them better and has a higher floor. I still want an actual PG on the second unit, though, and breaking up a potential Forbes/Mills pairing would encourage me to keep Derrick down there.
I don't think it makes sense to start Cunningham. He just hasn't shown enough. He's fine enough as injury filler, but I'm not starting with with his lack of size and agility to play either forward position well.
There's no shame in giving up 40 points from four players in the back court. That would average out to 100 points a game, which would be very good D, given the pace of the new offense. The Spurs did that all the time last year despite having an elite defense. , the Spurs gave up 60 to Miami (just from Dragic, Johnson and Waiters too) in the fourth game of the season last year, and people came in ing about their defense without Leonard. You were likely among them.
Rose and Jones either count or they don't. If they do, then the Spurs actually played pretty good defense in the back court last game (the guards as a whole were really inefficient). If it's just about starters, then framing this is Lillard and McCollum against Mills and Forbes is dishonest. In reality, the Spurs don't need to worry about whether Lillard or McCollum score 40 or not. They need to worry about blunting the opposing offense enough to win the game. They can do that even with Forbes and Mills being in the rotation, though it's not as easy as it would have been with White and Murray. They need to help each other on D and rotate to guys on the perimeter. Stopping someone like Stauskas from knocking down so many threes is a much bigger part of the game plan than what Lillard or McCollum do, provided neither has a 60-point game or whatever.
Agree here. I wrote my post based on the most probable scenario this regular seaso: Murray out and White and Walker available from December.
In the long term, I'd agree. Walker is more talented than White but rawer at the moment and not a PG yet. Speaking only about the current season, I'd say White has also a higher ceiling than Walker with the first unit. Thinking about Lonnie's progression, what would be a better scenario for him? running the team as starting PG or coming from the bench? I believe less pressure would be better for him at this initial stage of his development for the same reason we agree it would be better for him to play a lot with the Toros rather than being a third-string player in the NBA team. And I won't do the following, but considering how PATFO protects his young projects, I'd say Walker will play mainly in Austin this season as long as White plays the starting PG (unless more injuries come up and Walker's small contribution was key for the team to make the playoffs).
Yeah, the Forbes+Mills backcourt is totally unsustainable; no question. Nevertheless, we all know we will watch it too many times. My hope is that this just happens in games where it doesn't really affect, like a 20pt home win against Sacramento or a visit to the Oracle Arena.
Neither is Walker.
True... and since the Spurs media tends to get mixed up and both guys got injured right after the other, it's not even clear when they are really expected, though it appears that both could be back sooner than initially projected. I last saw projections on White for 2-4 weeks recovery time, so it's really possible White is back sooner anyways. Beyond that, before the injuries, White was projected to play regardless of Murray's minutes and he got the start as soon as Murray got injured. I hope Walker starts getting opportunities when he's ready to play, but I do expect Pop to go back to White as soon as he can play.
Then it's going to be a matter of whose bench minutes Walker takes? Bryn Forbes? Mills? At least cunningham's...
Read the exchange again and come back.
I can't argue with your analysis for Forbes but what is sad is that I thought he was decent for his standards. Man, for at least the first two months it is going to be rough watching him and Patty with no one better around.
I read it and it seems silly to say that White isn't healthy when Walker isn't either. Assuming both White and Walker come back at about the same time, I'm betting White gets minutes first. I'd be shocked if Walker is a consistent starter at any point this year. I think White should be given a shot first, assuming health, ofc.
They should both come back at about the same time, so we'll see what happens. In any event, I just want more backcourt depth so that we have alternatives.
You didn't read it. The whole thing is based off a comment I made about starting Walker if he were healthy. It was about starting him with Forbes and Mills as the alternatives, not about starting him when everyone is healthy. So bringing up White doesn't make sense. It would be like bringing up Murray. Walker shouldn't be in the plans now until he shows he's back and can stay back.
Last edited by Chinook; 10-19-2018 at 07:58 PM.
I did read it. It does make sense since both White and Walker are expected to come back at the same time and Murray is not. White and Walker are going to both be back this season which is why it makes perfect sense to bring one up with the other if we're considering playing one when healthy. Everyone who isn't being stubborn can see that logic, but carry on if you want.
Bruh, don't go around telling other people what they meant. I am not talking about in a few weeks. I'm talking about right now. White isn't healthy right now. Walker isn't either. If he were healthy, White still wouldn't not be. So no, it doesn't make sense to bring up White. If we are waiving a magic wand and making folks better, we may as well do so for Murray as well. It's important, because when Walker is healthy, I do NOT want him to start, with White or without White, because Lonnie is a health risk. Walker needs to spend quite a bit of time reestablishing himself in Austin. I love Lonnie's potential, but knee injuries are scary, and they can't afford to rush him back or put too big of a load on him. Best case for me would be giving him NBA minutes starting in like February, with him hopefully having a solid rotation spot by the end of the season.
So no, talking about White doesn't apply here. The previous poster thought it did, and I clarified. You, already knowing this, decided to jump in and say "Well, I thought it was this, so obviously you must have meant this." I didn't. You just thought wrong. Not being stubborn would mean admitting you just read it wrong, not being so bullish about your opinion that you decided to explain other people's points to them.
You seem to think conversations are one sided. No one is telling you what you meant. No one really cares what you meant. I'm explaining to you why others are bringing it up and why it makes perfect sense for them to do so in a conversation about our guards but you'd rather be insufferable in your stubbornness to stupid details in order to claim you're right.
You're right in your hypothetical situation and your magic wand waving. Great talk.
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