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  1. #76
    Veteran Raven's Avatar
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    derozan gay bertans aldridge gasol starting lineup. can't beat them with pace? beat them with size.

  2. #77
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    As you know, that ship had unfortunately sailed. Trading Nephew wasn't San Antonio's idea.

    I mean, they did. If you're building a defense around Murray, you need a swingman playmaker to handle the offensive point guard duties. There are only a handful of those guys in the league and the Spurs got one.

    None of the other trade offers that I heard would have complemented the plan. (Side note: I still can't believes scrubs like Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Jaylen Brown, Markelle Fultz, etc. were taken off the table when Nephew was available ... It sucked for the Spurs that a bidding war never commenced but it's also humorous how much other teams overvalued their young talent.)

    A lot of people thought Pop could take 12 Steve Novaks and find a way to make the team above average defensively. I don't remember a lot of people pointing out the weirdness of the plan in the offseason, tbh.

    Even during the USDA certified, Grade A championship years, the Spurs never went all, all-in. They always had at least a couple youngsters hopping in the popcorn machine.

    It was a small-ish sample size but Murray did carry the defense last year at a Gobert-esque level. With him on the court, the Spurs allowed 98 points per 100 possessions. With him off the court, that number exploded to 105.1 points per 100 possessions.

    And while we can reminisce about Green and Anderson, the stats say neither one really helped Murray last year. In fact, the defense got worse when Murray was paired with either of those two players.

    Again, the plan was to go for a home run. The Spurs thought their one chance to win a championship was for Murray to become an even more devastating defender, so they tried to plug the holes playing Murray more minutes would cause. I'm not here to argue that was necessarily the best possible plan but it's pretty obvious what the thinking was at the time.



    1) Flipping Kawhi for an empty scorer like a Kyle Kuzma or whoever while keeping the rest of the team in place would have put the ceiling of the team at about a seventh seed with zero championship potential. That's why I think the Spurs swung for the fences. They could have gone safer routes but none of those safer routes give more upside than simply extending the playoff streak.

    2) The Spurs planned as if Murray wasn't a legit offensive player ... or at least they had to cover for his shortcomings. Players like Green and Anderson fit next to Murray defensively, obviously, but would have been a difficult fit offensively. For example, in a vacuum you pick Anderson over Bertans -- but with Murray in mind, you have to pick Bertans over Anderson.

    3) I never heard Beal being available for Kawhi. But even if he was, that would have been an awkward fit since you'd then have to believe Murray is a legit playmaker. If you trade for Beal, then you basically have to pivot away from Murray. Even in the scenario that the Spurs bring back the same team plus Beal, that's still a relatively low ceiling team considering Murray would be stuck playing 20-22 minutes again.

    4) The Wizards act like Beal is their franchise player and Wall is the one they'd like to trade if they could. To think they could have gotten Beal from the Wizards while also offloading Gasol on them is ... wishful thinking, IMO.

    Agreed. I think Pop saw White and Walker and thought they could replace Green and Anderson. White is smaller than Green but he plays bigger than he is so he has across the board defensive potential. And then on the offensive end, he fits today's need for penetrators with good court vision. Pop also dropped hints from Day 1 that Walker wasn't going to be the typical redshirt-in-Austin rookie.

    I don't know of a team outside of the Bay Area that isn't left vulnerable after one of their top three most important players is lost for the season. In San Antonio's situation, they bet big on Murray taking a big step forward and constructed their roster with that in mind. The roster obviously looks "weird" now but that's because the player the team was most built around is now lost for the season.

    I don't mind people criticizing the roster construction (personally, for example, I was in favor at keeping Green at nearly all costs and keeping Parker around). But I do think it's disingenuous for people (not saying you, particularly) to criticize the current state of the roster while ignoring that losing Murray totally changed the equation.

    Cunningham wouldn't be anywhere near the starting lineup with Murray around. He was signed as deep reserve big who got thrust into the starting lineup because he was the only thing left around that looked like a possible defensive player after Murray went down.

    I don't know how Murray and DeRozan would have fit but I image Murray would have ceded most of the playmaking duties to DeRozan. But, again, your point on how the offense looked like it would struggle is exactly why the Spurs opted for offensive role players rather than defensive role players.
    Your reconstruction of what was likely PATFO's "plan" is very illuminating. It would definitely explain some specific choices you point out. However, Danny does not seem to be an awkward fit with Murray, but actually very complementary. That's just one decision that doesn't advance the "plan". Another is signing Marco. Another is failing to do anything to address the SF position with a role player with EITHER defensive or offensive skill.

  3. #78
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    The Spurs don't have a small-forward. How is that not someone worthy of criticism? Like sure, Murray may have mega-evolved to the point that he could make the Spurs a respectable defense. But the team still lacks someone to guard the plenum of elite wings in today's game. Murray wasn't that guy. I think even his biggest supporters can agree there. Maybe he develops into that guy, but it seems less rational to argue that rather than him just getting a corner three to work off a PG or enough of a PnR game to share play-making duties with Beal.
    It's funny that you mention that, bc timvp was saying he finds it weird people criticize the FO decisions, but he at the same time hates the Cunningham starting rotation. He hates it but there is no other player you can slot there that will fit. He has to start bc you don't have anybody else. Starting White is not only a problem offensively between ballhandling duties taken from derozan and the chemistry, but makes the team undersized. There is a lot more to chat about with White, Derozan, Cunningham, Davis etc. but it's dishonest to say he doesn't understand the others criticizing this roster while pointing out he doesn't like Cunningham starting...

    And again this is b4 we introduce Murray into the equation and the additional spacing and other things required to fit him in.

  4. #79
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    I don't think they'd be contenders with a healthy and more actualized Murray. But they'd be in position to consider making a big trade to get there. I'm never going to buy this idea that Murray would make the Spurs elite defensively by himself. The Spurs have always had at least two really good defenders, so making a move for Porter could have gotten them there.
    Spurs would have never been true contenders for this year and the next one and probably the year after that. Murray or no Murray. Porter or no Porter. Neither Demar, nor LMA with all due respect can be #1 guy on a le team in today's league. We have no true #1 guy for contention (and no assets to get one) and no strong supporting cast either. Our goal is not to be terrible and stay in most games and fight for the playoffs so that Pop has a decent career ending. And at the same time try to develop our young guys which, let's be honest, are not the best set of young guys in the league: Murray, Walker, White and to a lesser extend Forbes.

    Our only chance for real le contention in the near future is a sudden Nephew-in-reverse situation. Like if Anthony Davis or Yannis demand a trade only to the Spurs and say he will only resign with the Spurs and create such a toxic atmosphere that their team would have to take LMA or whatever we have back. But it won't happen.

  5. #80
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    i may be misunderstanding things, but are people really suggesting that nobody was criticizing the Spurs FO not getting any small forwards or capable defenders in the off-season?

    Because I was pretty non-stop in criticizing those exact things and I wasn't alone.

  6. #81
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    lol thinking a PG can anchor an entire defense. If PATFO really thought that then they're more lost than we thought.

  7. #82
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    i may be misunderstanding things, but are people really suggesting that nobody was criticizing the Spurs FO not getting any small forwards or capable defenders in the off-season?

    Because I was pretty non-stop in criticizing those exact things and I wasn't alone.
    particularly, I've been criticizing the lack of slashers since the time that we had no difficulties of winning teams of level b even resting our main players and winning 50 games in our sleep, the league was already going in that direction since 2015 and Spurs should have prepared another SF prototype to pair with Kawhi Leonard

  8. #83
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    Building your entire team around a defensive point guard...in 2018? Oof. PATFO is so out of touch. The game has passed them by completely.

  9. #84
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I don't think they'd be contenders with a healthy and more actualized Murray. But they'd be in position to consider making a big trade to get there. I'm never going to buy this idea that Murray would make the Spurs elite defensively by himself. The Spurs have always had at least two really good defenders, so making a move for Porter could have gotten them there.
    I personally haven't entertained the idea of a trade. Who would PATFO consider moving? A Gasol trade was always fantasy everything considered, and Mills will retire here. Aldridge maybe but, if things went as planned and Murray were actually playing, PATFO would surely be running this Aldridge experiment back.

  10. #85
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    i may be misunderstanding things, but are people really suggesting that nobody was criticizing the Spurs FO not getting any small forwards or capable defenders in the off-season?

    Because I was pretty non-stop in criticizing those exact things and I wasn't alone.
    It wasn't obvious at first that they were going to ignore the situation entirely and throw Dante ing Cunningham into the 3 spot until the summer began drawing to a close.

  11. #86
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    I don't know all the offers that were available. But I don't think DeRozan made sense as a player to compliment Murray at all. If your whole plan relies on Murray essentially becoming an average offensive PG while becoming (or continuing to be) elite defensively, then you don't need someone else to be a PG.
    I don't see anything to hint that the Spurs thought Murray would become an average offensive point guard. Quite the opposite, really. They thought they needed to reinforce the offense due to the drag of him playing 30+ minutes per night.

    They thought he'd be great defensively.

    And yeah, Philly and Boston ed up. Teams tend to overestimate the length of their windows.
    Even if Nephew stays at his current 80% status, history is going to laugh at those teams for not offering up anything. Taking Ingram, Kuzma, Fultz, Brown, etc. off the table was dumb at the time and looks even more insane now.

    Spurs just had bad luck, tbh. Their superstar wanted a trade in an era where teams were paranoid about accidentally agreeing to a Herschel Walker redux deal. (Obviously, didn't help that said superstar helped destroy his value on his way out the door.) Eventually, the worm will turn and teams will once again realize that you give up anything not nailed to the ground when a superstar is available.

    I feel like a lot of people were pessimistic about the D before the pre-season. I am one who believes good coaching can make any group of personnel mediocre defensively if the guys buy in. That's still a huge reason for the Spurs being piss-poor on that end so many nights. If they don't go out there with focus, guys just run train on them.
    I was concerned about the defense in the preseason but thought there was a chance Murray could hold the dam. After his injury, all the onus fell on Pop. But, really, with how the rules are, I don't know if it's even possible for a coach to invent a defensive team out of thin air anymore.

    It's no longer the days when you could put past their prime Mario Elie and Jerome Kersey on the court and wrestle and scheme your way into a good defense unit, unfortunately.

    Having an elite D and just getting some better scorers is much better than having mostly terrible defensive personnel and a back court that is a really bad offensive pairing.
    If by "much better" you mean "much safer," then I agree. The ultimate thread-the-needle-back-to-contention was betting it all on Murray's defense. It was always a longshot but the ceiling was higher than if you just traded Nephew for Kuzma-esque scorers and brought everyone back while keeping Murray in that 20-22 minute role.

    Disagree that Murray and DeRozan is a bad offensive pairing on paper. DeRozan could be the ballhandler and the hope was that Murray's work on his shooting could decently spread the court. To help spread the court, since that was a glaring issue, the Spurs opted for offensive role players.

    This isn't swinging for the fences then. You have to assume that Murray's shooting (the thing he was working all summer long) has to hold up at least. And I totally think Pop was expecting Murray would be a consistent 12-15ppg guy and hoping for 16-20ppg. If he was going to do that by having the ball in his hands even a little, then a guy like DeRozan didn't make sense.
    Projecting Murray to average 20 points per game was much more unrealistic than projecting him to win DPOY. The hope on offense was he could hit wide open jumpers while not being a complete liability

    The Spurs don't have a small-forward. How is that not someone worthy of criticism?
    Turns out Pop planned to play Gay and DeRozan at small forward. That idea looks a lot worse without Murray than it would have looked with him. With him, he could harass ballhandlers and not let them waltz into their offensive sets like they do when Forbes or Mills is defending the point.

    I think the biggest problem with the roster is coaching right now. They could defend much better if they bought in.
    See, I just can't mentally piece that train of thought together. You've listed thoroughly how badly constructed the post-Murray-injury roster is (no small forward, no wing defenders, etc.) and then say the biggest problem with the roster is coaching? To me, there are far bigger problems than coaching: losing Murray, Aldridge playing about 40% as well as he did last season, Gay being either injured and out or hobbled and in ... to name three.

    As it stands, I just don't see how this could be a decent defensive team. I don't care who's coaching. Without Murray and with Aldridge playing a lot slower than he did last season, it's just not possible. This team could be bought in 100% to the greatest defensive schemes ever envisioned but at the end of the day you're still trotting Forbes, DeRozan, one-legged Gay and slow motion Aldridge out there. It's actually impressive they aren't bottom five on defense.

    The Spurs could have been an above-average team by having a mediocre D and a strong offense. That's even after Murray went down. Them being this bad wasn't inevitable.
    I agree with this. The plan after Murray's injury should have been to try to be a top three offensive team and maybe 16-18 defensively. That would have allowed them to win 44+ games as long as DeRozan and Aldridge had at least B seasons.

    To begin the season, it looked like the Spurs were heading that way. But Pop changed course and put Cunningham in the starting lineup in an attempt to repair the defense. That was a mistake, in my estimation. This team isn't going to be a good defensive team without Murray. Period. With Cunningham starting, they literally can't be a strong offensive team because he gets in the way too much. No coaching scheme or buying into coaching is going to change that.

    The first step in the right direction is replacing Cunningham in the starting lineup with someone who gives you a shot at becoming an elite offensive team. On the current roster, the only person who fits that mold is Bertans. Pop needs to realize either this team is going to be elite offensively and sub par defensively or mediocre offensively and mediocre-at-best defensively, and that the former is the way to proceed.

  12. #87
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    Lifting the RFA status for JSimms wasn't unnecessary. It was necessary and his agent specifically requested it.
    ?

    Lifting Simmons' RFA status was unnecessary, meaning the Spurs didn't need to do it. If they wanted to keep his value low and re-sign him, they would have kept him a restricted free agent. If they didn't care to let him wallow, they could have done what the Warriors did to Patrick McCaw. They renounced him in order to help Simmons land his contract. There was no basketball reason to renounce him.

    They renounced Simmons and then still pretended to still have interest in re-signing him all in order to help him get a contract. And did so out of the goodness of the hearts.

    It's funny that you mention that, bc timvp was saying he finds it weird people criticize the FO decisions
    That's not what I said. I said it's disingenuous to criticize the construction of the roster without factoring in the loss of Murray. If someone wants to criticize the FO decisions, that's fine and I too disagreed with a majority of their offseason decisions. But if the objective is to be fair, you have to put it in the proper context.

    And, yes, in any context starting Cunningham is a bad idea. It'd be an even worse idea if Murray were healthy.

  13. #88
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
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    it isn't the case that murray would be a one man defense like gobert, it's that him and LMA could run a basic system other than, "i lost my man and he's running full steam" The great thing about anderson is that he slowed guys down. Murray is similar with his length. two defenders makes a system!

  14. #89
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    History might laugh at those teams for overrating their young players and letting the Raptors leapfrog them, but it's going to laugh even harder at the Spurs, who considering the stakes and rigidness of this league now, made maybe the dumbest trade I've ever seen and set this franchise back years.

    The worst part of this nonsense is, there's more than likely going to be no marked change. I think they'll spin this like the Grizzlies did last season, thinking a combination of health, continuity and a good draft pick will cure what ails them, while continuing to ignore systemic issues. In reality, everything needs to be re-evaluated. This is a franchise in denial.

  15. #90
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
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    History might laugh at those teams for overrating their young players and letting the Raptors leapfrog them, but it's going to laugh even harder at the Spurs, who considering the stakes and rigidness of this league now, made maybe the dumbest trade I've ever seen and set this franchise back years.

    The worst part of this nonsense is, there's more than likely going to be no marked change. I think they'll spin this like the Grizzlies did last season, thinking a combination of health, continuity and a good draft pick will cure what ails them, while continuing to ignore systemic issues. In reality, everything needs to be re-evaluated. This is a franchise in denial.
    the griz are good this year????

  16. #91
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    the griz are good this year????
    I didn't say that. They're mediocre. But they too were and are in denial about the state of their franchise. At least they have a sure fire blue chip prospect though.

  17. #92
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I don't think it's disingenuous at all to criticize the roster makeup without factoring the loss of Murray. I'm a big fan of the kid but let's be realistic. It's 2018 and SFs and 3&D wing players are the most important players to have to play in today's NBA. Even with Murray spurs still have literally no SF on the roster and zero 3&D guys. How the can anyone justify this kind of roster construction?

    I really am starting to think Pop is that full of himself to believe he could coach a YMCA squad to 50 wins which is why he and RC thought adding Derozan to "basically the same team" would make us better while completely ignoring that we lost our ENTIRE perimeter defensive unit sans Dejounte in the off-season. I simply cannot fathom how they thought they didn't need a SF on the roster. Really should have matched Anderson

  18. #93
    Since 1979 Das Texan's Avatar
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    From what it appears the Spurs were hoping the starting lineup come March would have looked kinda like this:

    Aldridge
    Gay/Gasol
    DeRozen
    Walker, but maybe White
    Murray

    I mean with 2 of those 5 playing 0 minutes and one of those options playing what? 6 games?

    Ya its difficult.

    The roster is flawed, but its even more flawed with the injuries this team has had.

    With Metu not being close to ready you are playing with 11 men on most nights / 12-13 if you factor in the 2 way deals

    I would have liked to not go after Marco, but I get why they did, he had been fairly good the last couple of years and could be used to help instill some of the Spurs ways. I could just probably make about as many shots as he has been making.

    Hanging around .500 is actually fairly impressive with as many flaws as this team has, both due to roster construction and due to bad luck with injuries. You cant assume Aldridge would be a s of his former self after the season he had last year, which is just as big of an issue as losing Murray.

  19. #94
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    I don't see anything to hint that the Spurs thought Murray would become an average offensive point guard. Quite the opposite, really. They thought they needed to reinforce the offense due to the drag of him playing 30+ minutes per night.
    This is starting to confuse me. Murray isn't an incompetent offensive player; he just doesn't/didn't have a jump shot. He spent the whole summer working on offense. He showed in pre-season a style that seemed to be him with the ball in his hands more and trying to can midrange jumpers. Believing he wouldn't have reached that level is completely understandable. But I don't think it's defensible to argue that PATFO wasn't counting on DeJounte's offense. You don't tell a player to push the pace and put the ball in his hands like Pop did with Murray is you just want him to be a non-liability.

    Moreover, Murray isn't a bad play-maker. He's a little robotic, but he's unselfish and can force help with his speed and size. Seeing as the Spurs had an Aldridge-based offense as it was, I don't see why that wouldn't have been something Pop was counting on.

    I was concerned about the defense in the preseason but thought there was a chance Murray could hold the dam. After his injury, all the onus fell on Pop. But, really, with how the rules are, I don't know if it's even possible for a coach to invent a defensive team out of thin air anymore.

    It's no longer the days when you could put past their prime Mario Elie and Jerome Kersey on the court and wrestle and scheme your way into a good defense unit, unfortunately.
    I didn't think there was any chance Murray would hold the dam by himself. PGs aren't centers, whatever the numbers said. Centers' proximity to the rim means they can be part of more possessions than the average guard. That's why they can affect the game to such an extent. Murray may rebound like a good big, but he's not doing the other things. If other guys let their men beat them, Murray isn't going to be there at the basket waiting for them like Duncan was. He'll be with his own man on the other side of the court.

    I get that Cun isn't a good defender, especially in an era where you can't make as much contact. But he's at least still in the picture when guarding someone in the post. That's way more than the other guys have done.

    See, I just can't mentally piece that train of thought together. You've listed thoroughly how badly constructed the post-Murray-injury roster is (no small forward, no wing defenders, etc.) and then say the biggest problem with the roster is coaching? To me, there are far bigger problems than coaching: losing Murray, Aldridge playing about 40% as well as he did last season, Gay being either injured and out or hobbled and in ... to name three.

    As it stands, I just don't see how this could be a decent defensive team. I don't care who's coaching. Without Murray and with Aldridge playing a lot slower than he did last season, it's just not possible. This team could be bought in 100% to the greatest defensive schemes ever envisioned but at the end of the day you're still trotting Forbes, DeRozan, one-legged Gay and slow motion Aldridge out there. It's actually impressive they aren't bottom five on defense.
    The Spurs are letting guys get wide-open shots. That has nothing to do with size or even athleticism. Those things are why they can't be elite. But the complete lack of effort to rotate or communication to cover guys is totally about coaching. Murray has been gone for weeks now. They didn't just lose him. When they have had their good stretches, it hasn't been because Murray's come back on the court. It's been because they were motivated. There's nothing stopping the Spurs from playing hard and smart. That's not exclusive to star players. It's not exclusive to tall players, or small-forwards. They don't have to swipe at the ball so much or to somehow never be back in transition or to fail to box out guys for rebounds

    The first step in the right direction is replacing Cunningham in the starting lineup with someone who gives you a shot at becoming an elite offensive team. On the current roster, the only person who fits that mold is Bertans. Pop needs to realize either this team is going to be elite offensively and sub par defensively or mediocre offensively and mediocre-at-best defensively, and that the former is the way to proceed.
    I think Cun was a big part of the Spurs getting back to being an average defensive team. He embodies the at ude every Spur should have on that end. A roster full of guys who try as hard as Cun on defense would be average defensively. Folks like Durant would still shoot over them; guys like Giannis would just completely envelop them. But Tyreek Evans would not can three after open three against him. LAC wouldn't get offensive rebounds on them.

  20. #95
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I don't think they'd be contenders with a healthy and more actualized Murray. But they'd be in position to consider making a big trade to get there. I'm never going to buy this idea that Murray would make the Spurs elite defensively by himself. The Spurs have always had at least two really good defenders, so making a move for Porter could have gotten them there.
    Have to agree wholeheartedly with this too. It's not an attack on Murray. Even in the great Timmy Duncan's days he wasn't left on an island. There was usually some wing, or Dave Robinson to help out. In the late era aside from the great Timmy D, there was tiago, there was Danny and then Kawhi... In the late era Pop was so worried about wing defense that not satisfied with having all of Kawhi and Danny (plus an aged Manu) they got Rudy Gay. At different times Pop had Jsimms who was serviceable while in the Spurs and Kyle, who was quality depth. In that timeframe Pop didn't get complacent and left Kawhi to be the one and only wing with size on the team. Sure, there was Marco in there, Neal, Mills... but Pop worried about defense, CoJo was available for the times Mills got burned one time too many as well. He didn't have this philosphy of putting the entire defense responsibility on a single player while surrounded by guys who were absolute negatives one side of the court.

    This piece of pie from Timvp is concocted as an explanation for this abomination, whether it be coaching, wrong personnel, wrong lineups, or all of the above in different measure.

  21. #96
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Spurs would have never been true contenders for this year and the next one and probably the year after that. Murray or no Murray. Porter or no Porter. Neither Demar, nor LMA with all due respect can be #1 guy on a le team in today's league. We have no true #1 guy for contention (and no assets to get one) and no strong supporting cast either. Our goal is not to be terrible and stay in most games and fight for the playoffs so that Pop has a decent career ending. And at the same time try to develop our young guys which, let's be honest, are not the best set of young guys in the league: Murray, Walker, White and to a lesser extend Forbes.

    Our only chance for real le contention in the near future is a sudden Nephew-in-reverse situation. Like if Anthony Davis or Yannis demand a trade only to the Spurs and say he will only re-sign with the Spurs and create such a toxic atmosphere that their team would have to take LMA or whatever we have back. But it won't happen.

    Post more often vavvi, very sensible explanation. This is what it is.

  22. #97
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    From what it appears the Spurs were hoping the starting lineup come March would have looked kinda like this:

    Aldridge
    Gay/Gasol
    DeRozen
    Walker, but maybe White
    Murray

    I mean with 2 of those 5 playing 0 minutes and one of those options playing what? 6 games?

    Ya its difficult.

    The roster is flawed, but its even more flawed with the injuries this team has had.

    With Metu not being close to ready you are playing with 11 men on most nights / 12-13 if you factor in the 2 way deals

    I would have liked to not go after Marco, but I get why they did, he had been fairly good the last couple of years and could be used to help instill some of the Spurs ways. I could just probably make about as many shots as he has been making.

    Hanging around .500 is actually fairly impressive with as many flaws as this team has, both due to roster construction and due to bad luck with injuries. You cant assume Aldridge would be a s of his former self after the season he had last year, which is just as big of an issue as losing Murray.
    That is still a team with poor shooting and poor defense built around the fadeaway two. It's stupid to begin with. This team makes no sense.

  23. #98
    Dejounte, White & THE IV Truth4sale$'s Avatar
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    Great write TimVP.
    I see alot of people are overlooking the Spurs wasted a lot of the offseason trying to mend the relationship Kawhi. Only to scramble for a trade that they felt would make them compe ive not rebuild. The Spurs loss ALL of their defensive players from a year ago. No Kawhi, Kyle Anderson, Murray and Danny Green. There is a reason Toronto is playing lights out basketball, and it's not all Kawhi, as Danny is playing great too.
    As the Spurs were debated the Kawhi situation, players signed with other teams (Anderson), and the Spurs were missed out on the best undrafted prospects. In addition over seas draft and stash players have not panned out.
    Bottom line, the Spurs scrambled a team to put together and this is the results. One dimensional players, unathletic aging veterans, One defensive player who is lost for the year..btw. why dont the Spurs use their injury exception.

  24. #99
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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  25. #100
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    27,774
    Great write TimVP.
    I see alot of people are overlooking the Spurs wasted a lot of the offseason trying to mend the relationship Kawhi. Only to scramble for a trade that they felt would make them compe ive not rebuild. The Spurs loss ALL of their defensive players from a year ago. No Kawhi, Kyle Anderson, Murray and Danny Green. There is a reason Toronto is playing lights out basketball, and it's not all Kawhi, as Danny is playing great too.
    As the Spurs were debated the Kawhi situation, players signed with other teams (Anderson), and the Spurs were missed out on the best undrafted prospects. In addition over seas draft and stash players have not panned out.
    Bottom line, the Spurs scrambled a team to put together and this is the results. One dimensional players, unathletic aging veterans, One defensive player who is lost for the year..btw. why dont the Spurs use their injury exception.
    I agree. Like you I think this process was a lot more haphazard than the deliberate design that Timvp describes. I am willing to accept the sandwich, but I don't have to like it, and at any given point they had options. Maybe they were all bad options, pick your poison options. It is what it is as vavvi and others explained.

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